First Group Ride - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 22 Old 05-30-2006, 07:12 PM Thread Starter
 
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First Group Ride

Well today I did my first group ride with a group of guys in Durham, NC. It a good mix of sportbikes: two busa's, a blackbird, a gixxer 600, couple of R6's, a Rockster, an F4i, and a 600RR. Also a guy was there with a 1973 Triumph Trident (that bike was awesome). We rode about 55 miles on backroads, generally going at least 15-20 over the posted limits. I had a blast. I was a little apprehensive at first since I have only been riding since March, but I had not trouble keeping up. I have never ridden my bike so hard, and I wrenched more out of it than I thought either one of us was possible (although I know the limiting factor in that equation is my noobness). I definitely felt the Galfer SS brake lines, loved the Satos/PC3 combo, and the Metzeler Sportec M3s never got squirrely. Loved it and will do it again. That stuff is addicting.

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post #2 of 22 Old 05-30-2006, 07:48 PM
 
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Wow you went at speeds over 70mph? You Sir, live BOLDLY! J/k man, I remember this time last year going 40 was SCARY on a straight road. lol. You'll be suprised how good you'll get quickly. Take a MSF course, ASAP if you hadn't been on a bike for a while.

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post #3 of 22 Old 05-30-2006, 07:53 PM Thread Starter
 
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Actually we were taking sweepers at 70mph. It is nice to be able to look ahead of you and know what line to take on a curve from someone who is in the middle of it. Fastest speed I saw today was only about 95-100mph (I was a little apprehensive to look down for too long).

It was a little weird on the ride back home. Everything seemed like it was in slow motion. I won't dare ride by myself near as fast as we did today without the other riders to help me.

Oh yeah and I have taken the MSF course.

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post #4 of 22 Old 05-30-2006, 07:57 PM
 
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Yeah anything over 90 w/o a screen feels pretty uncomfortable if your not laying down on the tank...lol

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post #5 of 22 Old 06-01-2006, 07:32 PM
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yup lots of fun riding with a group.. Just remember to give your self lots of room cause some are probably in as experience as your self. Just be careful.

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post #6 of 22 Old 06-01-2006, 08:30 PM Thread Starter
 
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Tonight I tried another group ride out. I knew things weren't good when I pulled up in the parking lot and only saw Goldwings. About a dozen bikes rode, and it was the most boring ride I have ever been on with my 919. No turns. No speedy straights. Just a scenic drive to get to the Mexican restaraunt. The most exciting part of the evening was when the group got split up by a redneck pickup truck and I got to do a double downshift full whack-of-the-throttle pass to catch up with the group. Meh. Hopefully Sunday I can meet up with 919Rev from this board and we can have a little bit of fun.

And what the hell are the the dainty shiny things that hang down off the backs of the Goldwings? They look something like christmas ornaments.

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post #7 of 22 Old 06-01-2006, 08:39 PM
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I would have ditched out on the wings.

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post #8 of 22 Old 06-02-2006, 09:23 AM
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there are times I would enjoy the cruise with the wings and times I would be asking the sport bike crew why they were going so slow... depends on mood..

One thing to be very careful of in sport riding with a group... if you just follow the guy in front of you... and he goes down... you will follow him down..

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post #9 of 22 Old 06-02-2006, 10:53 AM
 
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Also, never assume you can make the same line as the rider in front of you. He may have more skill than you, and you never want to find that out mid-apex.

Ride your own ride.
Be safe, and enjoy.

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post #10 of 22 Old 06-02-2006, 10:53 AM Thread Starter
 
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How much space is required to avoid a situation like that? Those gold wings were all over the top of each other (two lengths maybe), while the sportbikes had like 8 lengths between them.

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post #11 of 22 Old 06-02-2006, 01:52 PM
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As others have said, don't "target fixate" on the guy in front of you. View your own line. If he wants to run off, wish him well and go back and help him pick up his stuff.

Be very aware of who is behind you. I've seen more than one guy taken out by somebody from behind who overcooked a corner. The front of the pack is not always the best place to be, especially if you don't know everybody's abilities.

On straight road we always stagger, first guy left of center, next guy right of center, etc. That way everybody has room to swerve left/right; and if the guy behind isn't paying attention and doesn't brake soon enough he can run up beside the guy in front of him, not up his arse.

Get a common hand signal for "slow the #*&$ down." Good for gravel, slow moving vehicles, animals, etc.

If you single file it in the twisties, then spread out whatever makes you comfortable. The guys I ride with won't pass each other in the corners, so there's no need to be up the next guys rear tire. We're not racing, we're running "the pace."

When passing we single file the beginning, check mirrors when out in the left lane to see who/how many are coming, and the lead guy stretches it out as far as he can. Gives the following bikes room to get back in. Go back to stagger after that.

I have left group rides because it was obvious there were some guys who were going to be a statistical mark.
Have fun, ride safe.

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post #12 of 22 Old 06-02-2006, 09:26 PM
 
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I have a bud who I ride often with, and usually it is just the two of us. He said something simple when I first got my 919 and was itching to ride hard. I asked him if he has ever dragged a knee on an off-track ride... His response:

"nah man... I choose life"

Small words, big point. Every time I start to push the limits of my abilities that phrase pops into my head and I snap out of the adrenaline rush and calm down.

Come to think of it, I need to thank him for that.

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post #13 of 22 Old 06-04-2006, 08:01 PM
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The Pace

Words to Live by.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HondaJim
We're not racing, we're running "the pace."

The Pace
By Nick Ienatsch
(Originally published in Motorcyclist Magazine.)

Racing involves speed, concentration and committment; the results of a mistake are usually catastrophic because there's little room for error riding at 100 percent. Performance street riding is less intense and further from the absolute limit, but because circumstances are less controlled, mistakes and overagressiveness can be equally catastrophic. Plenty of roadracers have sworn off street riding. "Too dangerous, too many variables and too easy to get carried away with too much speed," track specialists claim. Adrenaline-addled racers find themselves treating the street like the track, and not surprisingly, they get burned by the police, the laws of physics and the cold, harsh realities of an environment not groomed for ten tenths riding. But as many of us know, a swift ride down a favorite road may be the finest way to spend a few free hours with a bike we love. And these few hours are best enjoyed riding at The Pace.

A year after I joined the Motorcyclist staff in 1984, Mitch Boehm was hired. Six months later, The Pace came into being, and we perfected it during the next few months of road testing and weekend fun rides. Now The Pace is part of my life - and a part of the Sunday-morning riding group I frequent. The Pace is a street technique that not only keeps street riders alive, but thoroughly entertained as well.

THE PACE

The Pace focuses on bike control and de-emphasizes outright speed. Full-throttle acceleration and last minute braking aren't part of the program, effectively eliminating the two most common single-bike accident scenarios in sport riding. Cornering momentum is the name of the game, stressing strong, forceful inputs at the handlebar to place the bike correctly at the entrance of the turn and get it flicked in with little wasted time and distance. Since the throttle wasn't slammed open at the exit of the last corner, the next corner doesn't require much, if any, braking. It isn't uncommon to ride with our group and not see a brake light flash all morning.

If the brakes are required, the front lever gets squeezed smoothly, quickly and with a good deal of force to set entrance speed with minimum time. Running in on the brakes is tantamount to running off the road, a confession that you're pushing too hard and not getting your entrance speed set early enough because you stayed on the gas too long. Running The Pace decreases your reliance on the throttle and brakes, the two easiest controls to abuse, and hones your ability to judge cornering speed, which is the most thrilling aspect of performance street riding.

YOUR LANE IS YOUR LIMIT

Crossing the centerline at any time except during a passing maneuver is intolerable, another sign that you're pushing too hard to keep up. Even when you have a clean line of sight through a left-hand kink, stay to the right of the centerline. Staying on the right side of the centerline is much more challenging than simply straightening every slight corner, and when the whole group is committed to this intelligent practice, the temptation to cheat is eliminated through peer pressure and logic. Though street riding shouldn't be described in racing terms, you can think of your lane as the racetrack. Leaving your lane is tantamount to a crash.

Exact bike control has you using every inch of your lane if the circumstances permit it. In corners with a clear line of sight and no oncoming traffic, enter at the far outside of the corner, turn the bike relatively late in the corner to get a late apex at the far inside of your lane and accelerate out, just brushing the far outside of your lane as your bike stands up. Steer your bike forcefully but smoothly to minimize the transition time; don't hammer it down because the chassis will bobble slightly as it settles, possibly carrying you off line. Since you haven't charged in on the brakes, you can get the throttle on early, before the apex, which balances and settles your bike for the drive out.

More often than not, ciccumstances do not permit the full use of your lane from yellow line to white line and back again. Blind corners, oncoming traffic and gravel on the road are a few criteria that dictate a more conservative approach, so leave yourself a three- or four-foot margin for error, especially at the left side of the lane where errant oncoming traffic could prove fatal. Simply narrow your entrance on a blind right-hander and move your apex into your lane three feet on blind left turns in order to stay free of unseen oncoming traffic hogging the centerline. Because you're running at The Pace and not flat out, your controlled entrances offer additional time to deal with unexpected gravel or other debris in your lane; the outside wheel track is usually the cleanest through a dirty corner since a car weights its outside tires most, scrubbing more dirt off the pavement in the process, so aim for that line.

A GOOD LEADER, WILLING FOLLOWERS

The street is not a racing environment, and it takes humility, self assurance and self control to keep it that way. The leader sets the pace and monitors his mirrors for signs of raggedness in the ranks that follow, such as tucking in on straights, crossing over the yellow line and hanging off the motorcycle in corners. If the leader pulls away, he simply slows his straightaway speed slightly but continues to enjoy the corners, thus closing the ranks but missing none of the fun. The small group of three or four riders I ride with is so harmonious that the pace is identical no matter who's leading. The lead shifts occasionally with a quick hand sign, but there's never a pass for the lead with an ego on the sleeve. Make no mistake, the riding is spirited and quick--in the corners. Anyone with a right arm can hammer down the straights; it's the proficiency in the corners that makes The Pace come alive.

Following distances are relatively lengthy, with the straightaways - taken at more moderate speeds - the perfect opportunity to adjust the gaps. Keeping a good distance serves several purposes, besides being safer. Rock chips are minimized and the highway patrol won't suspect a race is in progress. The Pace's style of not hanging off in corners also reduces the appearance of pushing too hard and adds a degree of maturity and sensibility in the eyes of the public and the law. There's a definite challenge to cornering quickly while sitting sedately on your bike.

New rider indoctrination takes some time because The Pace develops very high cornering speeds and newcomers want to hammer the throttle on exits to make up for what they lose at the entrances. Our group slows drastically when a new rider joins the ranks because our technique of moderate straightaway speeds and no brakes can suck the unaware into a corner too fast, creating the most common single-bike accident. With a new rider learning The Pace behind you, tap your brake lightly well before the turn to alert him and make sure he understands there's no pressure to stay with the group.

There's plenty of ongoing communication during The Pace. A foot off the peg indicates debris on the road, and all slowing or turning intentions are signaled in advance with the left hand and arm. Turn signals are used for direction changes and passing, with a wave of the left hand to thank the cars that move right and make it easy for the motorcyclists to get past. Since you don't have a death grip on the handlebar, you left hand is also free to wave to oncoming riders, a fading courtesy that we'd like to see return. If you're getting the idea The Pace is a relaxing, noncompetitive way to ride with a group, you are right.

RELAX AND FLICK IT

I'd rather spend a Sunday in the mountains riding at The Pace than a Sunday at the racetrack, it is that enjoyable. Countersteering is the name of the game, a smooth forceful steering input at the handlebar relayed to the tires contact patches through a rigid sport-bike frame. Riding at The Pace is certainly what the bike manufacturers had in mind when sport bikes evolved to the street.

But the machine isn't the most important aspect of running The Pace because you can do it on anything capable of getting through a corner. Attitude is The Pace's most important aspect; realizing the friend ahead of you isn't a competotor, respecting his right to lead the group occasionally and giving him credit for his riding skills. You must have the maturity to limlt your straightaway speeds to allow the group to stay in touch and the sense to realize that racetrack tactics such as late braking and full throttle runs to redline will alienate the public and police and possibly introduce you to the unforgiving laws of gravity. When the group arrives at the destination after running The Pace, no one feels outgunned or is left with the feeling he must prove himself on the return run. If you've got something to prove, get on a racetrack.

The racetrack measures your speed with a stopwatch and direct competition, welcoming your agression and gritty resolve to be the best. Performance street riding's only yardstick is the amount of enjoyment gained, not lap times, finishing position or competitors beaten. The differences are huge but not always remembered by riders who haven't discovered The Pace's cornering pureness and group involvement. Hammer on the racetrack. Pace yourself on the street.

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post #14 of 22 Old 06-04-2006, 08:02 PM
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THE PACE - Part II

PACE YOURSELF
By Nick Ienatsch
(Nick's follow-up piece from Sport Rider magazine.)

The street is not the track - It's a place to Pace

Two weeks go a rider died when he and his bike tumbled off a cliff paralleling our favorite road. No gravel in the lane, no oncoming car pushing him wide, no ice. The guy screwed up. Rider error. Too much enthusiasm with too little skill, and this fatality wasn't the first on this road this year. As with most single-bike accidents, the rider entered the corner at a speed his brain told him was too fast, stood the bike up and nailed the rear brake. Goodbye.

On the racetrack the rider would have tumbled into the hay bales, visited the ambulance for a strip of gauze and headed back to the pits to straighten his handlebars and think about his mistake. But let's get one thing perfectly clear: the street is not the racetrack. Using it as such will shorten your riding career and keep you from discovering the Pace. The Pace is far from street racing - and a lot more fun.

The Pace places the motorcycle in its proper role as the controlled vehicle, not the controlling vehicle. Too many riders of sport bikes become baggage when the throttle gets twisted - the ensuing speed is so overwhelming they are carried along in the rush. The Pace ignores outright speed and can be as much fun on a Ninja 250 as on a ZX-11, emphasizing rider skill over right-wrist bravado. A fool can twist the grip, but a fool has no idea how to stop or turn. Learning to stop will save your life; learning to turn will enrich it. What feels better than banking a motorcycle over into a corner?

The mechanics of turning a motorcycle involve pushing and/or pulling on the handlebars; while this isn't new information for most sport riders, realize that the force at the handlebar affects the motorcycle's rate of turn-in. Shove hard on the bars, and the bike snaps over; gently push the bars, and the bike lazily banks in. Different corners require different techniques, but as you begin to think about lines, late entrances and late apexes, turning your bike at the exact moment and reaching he precise lean angle will require firm, forceful inputs ant the handlebars. If you take less time to turn your motorcycle, you can use that time to brake more effectively or run deeper into the corner, affording yourself more time to judge the corner and a better look at any hidden surprises. It's important to look as far into the corner as possible and remember the adage, "You go where you look."

DON'T RUSH

The number-one survival skill, after mastering emergency braking, is setting your corner-entrance speed early, or as Kenny Roberts says, "Slow in, fast out." Street riders may get away with rushing into 99 out of 100 corners, but that last one will have gravel, mud or a trespassing car. Setting entrance speed early will allow you to adjust your speed and cornering line, giving you every opportunity to handle the surprise.

We've all rushed into a corner too fast and experienced not just the terror but the lack of control when trying to herd the bike into the bend. If you're fighting the brakes and trying to turn the bike, any surprise will be impossible to deal with. Setting your entrance speed early and looking into the corner allows you to determine what type of corner you're facing. Does the radius decrease? Is the turn off-camber? Is there an embankment that may have contributed some dirt to the corner?

Racers talk constantly about late braking, yet that technique is used only to pass for position during a race, not to turn a quicker lap time. Hard braking blurs the ability to judge cornering speed accurately, and most racers who rely too heavily on the brakes find themselves passed at the corner exits because they scrubbed off too much cornering speed. Additionally, braking late often forces you to trail the brakes or turn the motorcycle while still braking. While light trail braking is an excellent and useful technique to master, understand that your front tire has only a certain amount of traction to give.

If you use a majority of the front tire's traction for braking and then ask it to provide maximum cornering traction as well, a typical low-side crash will result. Also consider that your motorcycle won't steer as well with the fork fully compressed under braking. If you're constantly fighting the motorcycle while turning, it may be because you're braking too far into the corner. All these problems can be eliminated by setting your entrance speed early, an important component of running the Pace.

Since you aren't hammering the brakes at every corner entrance, your enjoyment of pure cornering will increase tremendously. You'll relish the feeling of snapping your bike into the corner and opening the throttle as early as possible. Racers talk about getting the drive started, and that's just as important on the street. Notice how the motorcycle settles down and simply works better when the throttle is open? Use a smooth, light touch on the throttle and try to get the bike driving as soon as possible in the corner, even before the apex, the tightest point of the corner. If you find yourself on the throttle ridiculously early, it's an indication you can increase your entrance speed slightly be releasing the brakes earlier.

As you sweep past the apex, you can begin to stand the bike up out of the corner. This is best done by smoothly accelerating, which will help stand the bike up. As the rear tire comes off full lean, it puts more rubber on the road, and the forces previously used for cornering traction can be converted to acceleration traction. The throttle can be rolled open as the bike stands up.

This magazine won't tell you how fast is safe; we will tell you how to go fast safely. How fast you go is your decision, but it's one that requires reflection and commitment. High speed on an empty four-lane freeway is against the law, but it's fairly safe. Fifty-five miles per hour in a canyon may be legal, but it may also be dangerous. Get together with your friends and talk about speed. Set a reasonable maximum and stick to it. Done right, the Pace is addicting without high straightaway speeds.

The group I ride with couldn't care less about outright speed between corners; any gomer can twist a throttle. If you routinely go 100 mph, we hope you routinely practice emergency stops from that speed. Keep in mind outright speed will earn a ticket that is tough to fight and painful to pay; cruising the easy straight stuff doesn't attract as much attention from the authorities and sets your speed perfectly for the next sweeper.

GROUP MENTALITY

Straights are the time to reset the ranks. The leader needs to set a pace that won't bunch up the followers, especially while leaving a stop sign or passing a car on a two-lane road. The leader must use the throttle hard to get around the car and give the rest of the group room to make the pass, yet he or she can't speed blindly along and earn a ticket for the whole group. With sane speeds on the straights, the gaps can be adjusted easily; the bikes should be spaced about two seconds apart for maximum visibility of surface hazards.

It's the group aspect of the Pace I enjoy most, watching the bikes in front of me click into a corner like a row of dominoes, or looking in my mirror as my friends slip through the same set of corners I just emerged from.

Because there's a leader and a set of rules to follow, the competitive aspect of sport riding is eliminated and that removes a tremendous amount of pressure from a young rider's ego - or even an old rider's ego. We've all felt the tug of racing while riding with friends or strangers, but the Pace takes that away and saves it for where it belongs: the racetrack. The racetrack is where you prove your speed and take chances to best your friends and rivals.

I've spend a considerable amount of time writing about the Pace (see Motorcyclist, Nov. '91) for several reasons, not the least of which being the fun I've had researching it (continuous and ongoing). But I have motivations that aren't so fun. I got scared a few years ago when Senator Danforth decided to save us from ourselves by trying to ban superbikes, soon followed by insurance companies blacklisting a variety of sport bikes. I've seen Mulholland Highway shut down because riders insisted on racing (and crashing) over a short section of it. I've seen heavy police patrols on roads that riders insist on throwing themselves off of. I've heard the term "murder-cycles" a dozen times too many. When we consider the abilities of a modern sport bike, it becomes clear that rider techniques is sorely lacking.

The Pace emphasizes intelligent, rational riding techniques that ignore racetrack heroics without sacrificing fun. The skills needed to excel on the racetrack make up the basic precepts of the Pace, excluding the mind-numbing speeds and leaving the substantially larger margin for error needed to allow for unknowns and immovable objects. Our sport faces unwanted legislation from outsiders, but a bit of throttle management from within will guarantee our future.

PACE PRINCIPLES

Set cornering speed early. Blow the entrance and you'll never recover.

Look down the road. Maintaining a high visual horizon will reduce perceived speed and help you avoid panic situations.

Steer the bike quickly. There's a reason Wayne Rainey works out - turning a fast-moving motorcycle takes muscle.

Use your brakes smoothly but firmly. Get on and then off the brakes; don't drag 'em.

Get the throttle on early. Starting the drive settles the chassis, especially through a bumpy corner.

Never cross the centerline except to pass. Crossing the centerline in a corner is an instant ticket and an admittance that you can't really steer your bike. In racing terms, your lane is your course; staying right of the line adds a significant challenge to most roads and is mandatory for sport riding's future.

Don't crowd the centerline. Always expect an oncoming car with two wheels in your lane.

Don't hang off in the corners or tuck in on the straights. Sitting sedately on the bike looks safer and reduces unwanted attention. It also provides a built-in safety margin.

When leading, ride for the group. Good verbal communication is augmented with hand signals and turn signals; change direction and speed smoothly.

When following, ride with the group. If you can't follow a leader, don't expect anyone to follow you when you're setting the pace.

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post #15 of 22 Old 06-04-2006, 08:24 PM
 
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Hey everyone, I am under my husbands name, as I do not ride on my own yet.....I really do want to learn and my husband has been trying to teach me. But , I don't think he is teaching material or maybe I am tooo contrary to learn. I hope not, because I kinda look forward to 5 more years and we can do what we want, pretty much. i do want to learn to ride and he wants to get me my own bike, I am just not sooo sure that the Honda 919 is the bike to learn on. Any suggestions? we're not totally rich and can afford to just keep swapping bikes. LOL

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post #16 of 22 Old 06-04-2006, 08:31 PM
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Yeah, cool isn't it? "The Pace" are words to live by.

"Towards the end of the vid, it looks like she may have had a bafflectomy." - MarylandMike
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post #17 of 22 Old 06-04-2006, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DPFISH
Hey everyone, I am under my husbands name, as I do not ride on my own yet.....I really do want to learn and my husband has been trying to teach me. But , I don't think he is teaching material or maybe I am tooo contrary to learn. I hope not, because I kinda look forward to 5 more years and we can do what we want, pretty much. i do want to learn to ride and he wants to get me my own bike, I am just not sooo sure that the Honda 919 is the bike to learn on. Any suggestions? we're not totally rich and can afford to just keep swapping bikes. LOL
Check out this thread: https://www.wristtwisters.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=1028

BTW, where in Texas are you guys?

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post #18 of 22 Old 06-05-2006, 05:08 AM
 
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about 50 miles north of Dallas. Celeste, Texas

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post #19 of 22 Old 06-05-2006, 05:52 AM Thread Starter
 
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I am not saying this is for everyone, but my 919 was my first bike. I had no riding experience prior to taking the MSF course at a local community college. After taking the course, I felt confident that I could handle the 919. I am 27yo, not wild crazy and know my limits. So I took it easy on the bike at first (I still am really am after 3 months). Depending on your ability to know your limits and back off when necessary you may still pull it off. But another thing is that if he has a 919, why don't you get a SV650? I know it isn't a 919, but sounds like if you are worried about the 919 being too much for you, the SV650 might fit the bill.

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post #20 of 22 Old 06-05-2006, 06:13 AM
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**** The Pace!

If I wanted to ride slow & coast into a turn I would be on a bicycle.

If ya think 70mph sweepers are something wait until you ride with one of my groups We take 90 degree turns (marked at 15mph) at almost 70 & have a few roads with sweepers in upwards of 140mph

I've been doing the "Track Only" thing lately & my first street ride with a group in over a year was a week ago for Memorial Day. It was a good brisk pace, but nothing like the speeds you hit on a track for the same type turns. Throw in the other variables like LEO's, gravel & wild animals & you still get a pretty good thrill factor. Still though when riding the street you can only do so much not because of the safety aspect of it (although that does count), but due to the limitations of the grip on the road etc...

This weekend I am leaving for Barber Motorsports Park again

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post #21 of 22 Old 06-05-2006, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DPFISH
Hey everyone, I am under my husbands name, as I do not ride on my own yet.....I really do want to learn and my husband has been trying to teach me. But , I don't think he is teaching material or maybe I am tooo contrary to learn. I hope not, because I kinda look forward to 5 more years and we can do what we want, pretty much. i do want to learn to ride and he wants to get me my own bike, I am just not sooo sure that the Honda 919 is the bike to learn on. Any suggestions? we're not totally rich and can afford to just keep swapping bikes. LOL
The 919 is a lot of motor to learn to control as a newbie... And sometimes spouses are the worst person to learn from. for the teacher's part they love and think highly of the person and expect them to just pick it up... and for the student they expect clearer instructions from someone they normally communicate so well with..


Find an MSF course (they have them all over DFW metroplex) If you have the resources for a newer bike you might look at the 919's little sister the 599 I know one lady that had that for her first bike...

Mitch
'83 Suzuki GS750E
'02 Honda 919
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post #22 of 22 Old 06-05-2006, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roseknight
The 919 is a lot of motor to learn to control as a newbie...
That is one of the biggest bunches of crap I have heard in a long long time...

The 919 powerplant is as user friendly as they come. Very broad spread of useable power & low peak performance.

The problem with the 919 is its lack of precision when you try to up the pace which is aggravated by the very long handlebars that amplify rider inputs tot the chassis, but anything up to about 7/10 & it is super stable & very composed which makes it very easy to ride for even beginners.

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