Erion/Crane Cams: ORDERED ! - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 39 Old 03-16-2009, 02:39 PM Thread Starter
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Erion/Crane Cams: ORDERED !

well, any of you who were hoping to try out the Erion/Crane NEW (not reground) drop-in cams are now officially S.O.L.

i just ordered the last set in existence ("once they're gone, they're GONE" quoth Erion) and with a little bit of sweet talking, i got them at a bit of a break.

"it's all beginning to build up to something....something, that can only be redeemed with FIRE !"

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post #2 of 39 Old 03-16-2009, 03:07 PM
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And so it goes...

At least they are going to be well used.

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post #3 of 39 Old 03-16-2009, 03:41 PM
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post #4 of 39 Old 03-16-2009, 04:59 PM
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lucky *$&2(! where else to look for cams...

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post #5 of 39 Old 03-16-2009, 06:18 PM
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Woo! Can't wait to see it all put together now... Post up pics!

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post #6 of 39 Old 03-16-2009, 07:31 PM Thread Starter
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"and so it goes" Rat, is a simple phrase often used by the best author ever, Kurt Vonnegut.

yet, it ain't "so going" for another month at LEAST !

adamj, my cylinder head is at the local machinist, my cases are in Wisconsin, my pistons are in the air between NY and WI and my cams are probably somewhere over northern cali right now. i'd need a HELL of a camera for these pix ! but as stuff comes across my threshold ("ewwww ! i better mop the threshold!") i'll post 'em up.

everybody saw my post-coatings cylinder head pix in here ,right?
i want credit for when i'm NOT (characteristically) lazy

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post #7 of 39 Old 03-16-2009, 07:32 PM
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CAMS??for a niner ?? what the hell?? i didnt know they were ever available .anybody ,please more info!!

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post #8 of 39 Old 03-16-2009, 08:59 PM
 
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I too would like more info on how to get some cams. What other mods NEED to be done for just a LITTLE more cam?

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post #9 of 39 Old 03-17-2009, 05:35 AM
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Quote:
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CAMS??for a niner ?? what the hell?? i didnt know they were ever available .anybody ,please more info!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ultimatefighter34 View Post
I too would like more info on how to get some cams. What other mods NEED to be done for just a LITTLE more cam?
Bucky's bike is a dedicated purpose built drag race bike. Not that it couldn't be done for street use but his goals for the bike might not be the same as yours.

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post #10 of 39 Old 03-17-2009, 11:21 AM Thread Starter
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not to sound like an arrogant prick (because that would shock and dismay SO many) but search "cams" in here. it's all been discussed.

they reckon 6-9 hp drop in. with my porting and other mods ?? i've not seen dyno charts. they are essentially 900rr grind w/ tabs for cam sensor. in retrospect, i should have moved up to larger valves. of course, maybe i saved myself a world of shat-storms too.

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post #11 of 39 Old 03-17-2009, 11:51 AM
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When does your racing season begin, Bucky?

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post #12 of 39 Old 03-17-2009, 12:06 PM
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When does your racing season begin, Bucky?
soon as they get the polar bears off the track



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post #13 of 39 Old 03-17-2009, 12:08 PM
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but not before his engine is put back together

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post #14 of 39 Old 03-18-2009, 10:41 AM Thread Starter
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unless i can rig nitrous to a saddled polar bear.

http://www.akracewaypark.com/09%20schedule.pdf

schedule, w/ purty pitcher of Pioneer Peak just beyond the finish line

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post #15 of 39 Old 03-18-2009, 11:11 AM
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that is a pretty intense race schedule. i'm kinda jealous...i only have 2 wknds a year that i get to take my bike to the strip! but my old CL 450 runs 8 seconds all day long on the short runs... it loves to eat the unsuspecting V-twins with too many shiny bolt ons and not enough get up and go!
i'm excited to see how you turn out, and see some time slips!!

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post #16 of 39 Old 03-19-2009, 04:06 PM Thread Starter
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that's a stout eighth for an old 450. got pix?

so my new cams arrived yesterday and i opened the box like a kid at christmas...my apologies to any "chosen people" in here.

and what do i find on the LAST of these cams in existence? significant damage, that's the hell what !

now i've got to decide how much i trust emory cloth...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg camage 1.jpg (61.3 KB, 51 views)
File Type: jpg camage 2.jpg (61.0 KB, 49 views)
File Type: jpg camage 3.jpg (81.3 KB, 46 views)
File Type: jpg camage lobe.jpg (57.8 KB, 44 views)

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post #17 of 39 Old 03-19-2009, 04:11 PM
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did you talk to the company about it yet? and show them these pictures? i understand where you are coming from not liking those but in these areas the valve is not touching the cam anyways. as long as it is balanced then i think i might run it. i would be more afraid of thos big ****ty looking welds. just my and im sure someone will tell me to stfu and call me a tard

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post #18 of 39 Old 03-19-2009, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scrat View Post
that is a pretty intense race schedule. i'm kinda jealous...i only have 2 wknds a year that i get to take my bike to the strip! but my old CL 450 runs 8 seconds all day long on the short runs... it loves to eat the unsuspecting V-twins with too many shiny bolt ons and not enough get up and go!
i'm excited to see how you turn out, and see some time slips!!
thats cuz they have nothing else to do

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post #19 of 39 Old 03-19-2009, 05:07 PM
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Those cam(s) look like crap... Considering the use or should I say abuse they will be subjected to, do you really want to run them? Looks like the cams came from a local junk yard! Russ Collins would never sell that bump stick.

Sorry Bucky just my

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post #20 of 39 Old 03-19-2009, 07:24 PM Thread Starter
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when i am fishing for opinions, no need to apologize for giving me one.

but i'm virtually at a "emory cloth, or stock cams?" decision

which would YOU chose, Mr. Mike?

one cam was clearly in an unopened Crane box, the other cam box had a DHL shipping label on it, the box was trashed, and the cam had clearly been out of the box before. ie, the pix i posted. so it's not Crane's fault (so what if it was? they don't exist anymore) , and really the only thing Erion's fault is that they shouldn't have shipped a box that had been previously opened without a little QC first.

but again, as there are no other "drop in, new" cams available, my options are pretty limited. i plan to call Erion tomorrow and send them pix, talk.

my engine cases and pistons arrived from Millenium (machine shop in Wisconsin) and Swain (coatings, in NY state) today !

so that's a good consolation prize for now...SOMEthing to be stoked about.

as far as the welds that hold the cam sensor wheel: eh. that's why i'm not getting the see-through cam cover. but if Trac Dynamics had welded up my precious swingarm like that? i'd be racing one short, wheelie prone bike this summer!

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post #21 of 39 Old 03-19-2009, 08:21 PM
 
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Dude thats messed up ! Id have a long conservation about that -

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post #22 of 39 Old 03-19-2009, 09:52 PM
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talk to hairball... he worked for a cam grinding company... ship them your stock cams ... and the measurements off those screwed up ones and they have a 1-2 day turn around... and if you ask him he will call them and get you a pretty sweet discount...

they do good work... pm hairball919...



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post #23 of 39 Old 03-19-2009, 10:00 PM
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those look nasty bucky.

'04 919---40k----6/18/10 SOLD

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post #24 of 39 Old 03-20-2009, 07:07 AM
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That stinks...

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post #25 of 39 Old 03-20-2009, 07:37 AM
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If it was my motor those POS cams would never get installed. I realize the racing season will soon begin, well maybe not that soon in AK and you must be anxious to get the TinMan running.

Plan B: Assemble the motor with the stock cams, it will make for a good baseline. Get a set of 919 cams(ratdog?) and have them re-ground to your custom specifications or use the 900rr specs.

IMO it is inexcusable for Erion to have shipped you defective parts!

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post #26 of 39 Old 03-20-2009, 10:27 AM
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The hardened surface of the lobes is compromised, even if you can dress them up with emery cloth I think you'll end up with a flattened lobe eventually. Looking at those pics I wouldnt even try it, or at least not unless you're prepared to pull your engine down to replace cams again this season.

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post #27 of 39 Old 03-20-2009, 10:27 AM
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I would frown on using emory cloth, and so would my bosses. We use a wire wheel for slight cosmetic imperfections, or just regrind the cam really quick. If you're an Ace cam grinder like my bosses and ouu top grinder of 33 years, Floyd, they can grind ONE lobe without re-indexing the entire cam. It would only take a few millionths of an inch to clear up those blemishes (I know, I'm exaggerating on my fractions there).

As for the valves not touching at that particular point, I would have to (don't hate me!) disagree with ya there. I've not seen a cam yet that where the lifters, rockers, or valves (depending on the cam design) didn't hit the entire circle of the cam (until they get worn out). And although many would assume the top of the lobe is the most critical, in the grinding business it's actually the base circle that is most critical. We have to grind them to within a certain tolerance and keep checking them with a digital caliper. Many manufacturers have exact "base circle minimums" allowed, many don't. Depends mostly on if the cam is solid or hydraulic.

But back to your problem. I just don't believe it is a good idea to use emory cloth on your lobe. Myself, I would go to any local cam grinder and have the lobe reground. This way, it will be microscopically even all the way across the lobe, and there will be no imperfections not viewable to the naked eye.

Just my own, worthless opinion. I'm certainly NOT a camshaft NOR motorcycle expert! Just a cam grinder who happens to ride!

Good luck! And YES, that sucks!

Need professional advice? Call Delta Camshaft in Tacoma, WA and ask for Jon or Scott (owners) or Floyd (top grinder; only does custom work and specializes in Pro Drag Race and Salt Flats grinds). One of these friendly folks can help ya fer sure! You can even tell them Shawn said to call them (they don't know me as Hairball but Jon does from my MySpace). See what THEY suggest before doing anything you'll regret later (like going back to old cams).
1-800-562-5500 between 8am & 4:30pm Mon-Fri PACIFIC time.
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post #28 of 39 Old 03-20-2009, 10:43 AM Thread Starter
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THANK YOU hairball. excellent advice.

HOWEVER, "local cam grinder"... welcome to Alaska !
how's YOUR local dogsled repair shop?


and there's no way i'm assembling a stock cammed engine, a night's sleep has solidified that truth to me.

new post: pix of new bare cases and coated wiseco pistons coming up shortly...

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post #29 of 39 Old 03-20-2009, 10:54 AM
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[QUOTE=bucky;290627]THANK YOU hairball. excellent advice.

HOWEVER, "local cam grinder"... welcome to Alaska !
how's YOUR local dogsled repair shop?
QUOTE]


That's too freakin' hilarious!

Delta can answer your questions. In fact, they can grind you cams to the exact specs of your "last one on the planet" and ship them to ya via the infamaous UPS DogSled Team!

Good Luck, man!

post #30 of 39 Old 03-20-2009, 12:53 PM Thread Starter
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"As for the valves not touching at that particular point, I would have to (don't hate me!) disagree with ya there."

i don't THINK i said that. but, i've been thinking it. the deformations are not in an area that experiences high stress. if there was merely slightly less surface area (ie if i make sure there is no RAISED material , only lowered) i do not think i can see a significant increase in stress or pressure in these. HOWEVER, the "bubbly" part of the journal is my greatest concern.

sometimes, i stubbornly proceed forward, ignoring advice.

man, those are the BEST "toldjasoes".
they're nearly the most difficult failures sometimes too.

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post #31 of 39 Old 03-20-2009, 03:42 PM
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the above post was what I was referring to...

post #32 of 39 Old 03-20-2009, 03:44 PM
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... but in these areas the valve is not touching the cam anyways. as long as it is balanced then i think i might run it.

post #33 of 39 Old 03-20-2009, 05:36 PM Thread Starter
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in fact, the valves NEVER touch the cams on our bikes ! TECHNICALLY.

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post #34 of 39 Old 03-20-2009, 06:31 PM
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I didn't get that technical, but sho yo right. Just wanted to point out the fact that there are not points on a camshaft where nothing touches the lobes... UNLESS it's worn. SOMETHING has to constantly come in contact with it, be it lifters/tappets, valves, pushrods, rockers, or whatever. Wasn't slamming you. But when you see and grind 40-50 cams a day you tend to figure out the pattern: wear spots are caused when a lifter or something isn't touching CONSTANTLY which is the case when something is worn out, be it lifters or rockers or whatever.

Did you call Delta? NO? Dude, call them! It will cost you nothing, and you'll find out what to do in a matter of seconds!


post #35 of 39 Old 03-21-2009, 05:30 PM
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Those cams are F'd and you are NOT putting them in the tinman w/ all that work on the rest of the lump.

I have an extra set of cams/keepers.

Send them to megacycle or web for hardweld/regrind.

I can ship them this week.

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post #36 of 39 Old 03-21-2009, 05:53 PM
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I'd shove those cams up Erion's a$$!!!!!! For what those things cost they should come with.....well I don't want my response striken from the record so I'll stop there.

Sounds like no matter what something is getting reground so I'd send that junk back to erion and demand money back. Then send stock cams out to get reground. Its not like its a big deal to reshim the valves and a ship kit with reground cams are likely much cheaper than those erion jobs.

Wow does that suck. That completes my opinion on this.

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post #37 of 39 Old 03-27-2009, 12:21 PM Thread Starter
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thanks again Hairball: today i'm shipping the damaged cam to Delta for repair.

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post #38 of 39 Old 03-27-2009, 12:33 PM
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SWEET! See, they're miracle workers there! Do you recall who you spoke to? You can easily make a friend when you talk to them by mentioning these topics:
JON: Suburu Rally Cross Racing!
SCOTT: Dirt Bikes or Online Poker!
FLOYD: Stock Car Racing (Hobby Stock)!

But really, they're awesome people there! And there is a 99% chance that one of these 3 (all co-owners) will do the work. (Did you mention my name?)

Keep me posted!

post #39 of 39 Old 03-28-2009, 05:20 PM
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looks like it should be quite repairable. as you said, a long as it's lower than ther surface... but they guys @ Delta should be all over it.
bucky you wanted pictures, i have tons...it's not a drag bike at all, it'sjust a bobber, but it's light and has decent power...this round the motor is apart for a set of race cams, 510cc pistons, stroker crank, and some porting maybe i should add a front brake?
here's an old clip from the side...http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...ideoID=3255803

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