Engine Ice has turned Kool-Aid Purple! - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 39 Old 08-29-2006, 09:08 PM Thread Starter
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Engine Ice has turned Kool-Aid Purple!

A few months ago I switched my engine coolant to blue colored Engine Ice. My 9er was approximately 20,000 miles. I installed the Engine Ice at about 17,000 miles. I was very careful to do a complete engine flush and thoroughly drained the engine including blowing air through system to hasten drying before I added the engine ice. Today I noticed a small drip of shinny purple colored fluid under the water pump housing on the floor in my garage and then noticed it appears to be dripping from the water pump. Curious about what this fluid could be I looked in the coolant over-flow tank and to my surprise found that the Engine Ice had turned Kool-aid purple. Note: I also removed the over flow bottle and thoroughly flushed and cleaned all green stains out before adding engine ice.

I have emailed basically the same story to the folks that make Engine Ice. I was wondering if anyone else that uses this product has seen this happen. Also, why the hell is my water pump leaking? sheesh!

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post #2 of 39 Old 08-29-2006, 09:14 PM
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I put Water Wetter in my bike and my water pump seal started leaking a few weeks later. Had to get replaced.

Depending on the ratio of each color... Blue and Green could make a redish purple. Sounds like the old stuff and new stuff maybe mixed despite your efforts to flush it. Just a theory there.

What did you plan to accomplish with Engine Ice? If it makes it run cooler, then the thermostat will just adjust it so that it goes back to where it was running before you put that stuff in.

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post #3 of 39 Old 08-29-2006, 09:37 PM
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Ragdoll, do you suspect the water wetter to be the cause of that gasket leak? Oddly enough I was about to flush my syatem and do an anti-freeze/water/wetter mix... Now I'm kinda hesitant...


I've used this stuff on all the 4 legged performance vehicles I've ran, and it has made considerable differences... the thermostat will regulate this, but it allows for a faster transfer of heat when it does open..allowing faster cycling times, and more even cooling, at least on a car.... maybe the bikes are different...

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post #4 of 39 Old 08-29-2006, 09:39 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ragdoll View Post
Depending on the ratio of each color... Blue and Green could make a redish purple. Sounds like the old stuff and new stuff maybe mixed despite your efforts to flush it.
I drained it then ran water through it like 3 times.. then I removed the t-stat, rolled it out side and hooked the hose to the bottom radiator hose and ran water through it for like 5 minutes. Pushing right into the water pump and back through motor and down into radiator and out on ground. It was crystal clear before I did this but I wanted to be sure. Then I removed the rear shock and dropped the swing arm to get the over flow bottle out. Used a pipe cleaner type brush to scrub it thoroughly. No green at all. Then, I ran distilled water through the system twice to make sure the tap water was out. We have very hard water here. There is not a chance in hell there was any green in that system. This stuff isn't reddish purple. It's like I said. Kool-Aid purple. Looks like melted Popsicle. Besides, blue and green makes either more blue or more green depending on what you have more of. Remember your Primary colors from grade school art? Red & blue make purple. Blue and yellow make green. Red and yellow make orange. Plus, this is really a vibrant purple. It is a pure crystal clear purple. It's as much purple as the Blue was blue to begin with.

Thanks for taking the time to respond, but that's not it. Might be the cause of the leak though? What I am worried about is more like a blown head gasket or the like introducing Hydro Carbons into the coolant.

The whole thing has me baffled.

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post #5 of 39 Old 08-30-2006, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb_I View Post
Ragdoll, do you suspect the water wetter to be the cause of that gasket leak? Oddly enough I was about to flush my syatem and do an anti-freeze/water/wetter mix... Now I'm kinda hesitant...


I've used this stuff on all the 4 legged performance vehicles I've ran, and it has made considerable differences... the thermostat will regulate this, but it allows for a faster transfer of heat when it does open..allowing faster cycling times, and more even cooling, at least on a car.... maybe the bikes are different...
Well, I personally won't ever use it again. Others probably will say it's fine.

What you are saying about heat transfer is probably true, I wouldn't know though.

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post #6 of 39 Old 08-30-2006, 07:24 AM
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Well, I support you in whatever route you choose, as motorcyle engines and so on can be worlds apart from performace cars.... Personally, i thank you for bringing your experience to light, as i mentioned i was about to run some in the bike, and now am hesitant.. as far as cars go,, and as far as running a vehicle that gets 7 mpg and all the performance aspects,, I'd say run the water wetter by Redline. As it will shine through on this area,.. But the bikes... well might need more research...

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post #7 of 39 Old 08-30-2006, 01:49 PM Thread Starter
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Follow up:

As I initially stated, I emailed this information to the folks that make Engine Ice and this is the response I got from the company president.

----

Color change is not a problem or indicative of any problem with the product.
It is colored with a Food & Drug Administration (FDA) digestible coloring product, similar to food coloring.

It is not designed to maintain its base color for extended periods.

The product will be just fine to drain into a clean bottle and reused back into your motorcycle.

Thank you for your interest in our products



David A. Kimmey, President
CycleLogic Products, Inc.
Mfg of Engine Ice Coolant and ProClean1000 Products Toll Free 877-806-9377


----

So, it looks like the purple color is completely irrelevant and I can reuse the stuff if when I drain it out, I keep it clean?

My Honda dealer has the water pump gasket in stock. Gonna do this first.

We'll see?

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post #8 of 39 Old 08-30-2006, 02:01 PM
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I hope it is the gasket however there is a strong possibility that the water pump has gone south! Again , I hope I'm wrong on this call.

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post #9 of 39 Old 08-30-2006, 02:18 PM
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Does the water pump on our 919s have a "weep hole" that dribbles when the pump has gone bad like on a lot of newer cars and trucks?

That's how I knew my Toyota truck needed a new water pump.

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post #10 of 39 Old 08-30-2006, 02:33 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m51142 View Post
I hope it is the gasket however there is a strong possibility that the water pump has gone south! Again , I hope I'm wrong on this call.
Yeah, me too. I'll know more when I get it off. Unfortuanately it will be a few days before I can do it.

On a side note: My right fork seal has gone bye bye too. I did drag races on Sunday and I landed a wheelie pretty hard on the drive back to the pit area. I heard a sorta squishy pop and found my right fork tube covered in oil. Was even dripping out and down. He he. I got the seal kits ordered through Service Honda. Seems like sh!t always breaks at the same time.

Anyway....

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post #11 of 39 Old 08-30-2006, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoCycho View Post
Yeah, me too. I'll know more when I get it off. Unfortuanately it will be a few days before I can do it.

On a side note: My right fork seal has gone bye bye too. I did drag races on Sunday and I landed a wheelie pretty hard on the drive back to the pit area. I heard a sorta squishy pop and found my right fork tube covered in oil. Was even dripping out and down. He he. I got the seal kits ordered through Service Honda. Seems like sh!t always breaks at the same time.

Anyway....
Let me know if you need any tips on changing out the seals.

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post #12 of 39 Old 08-30-2006, 05:35 PM
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Let me know if you need any tips on changing out the seals.
I'll take those tips (that didn't sound right at all). I'm hoping to get the fork seals replaced on my '83 440 this weekend. That project bike is progressing veeeeerrrrrry sloooooooowwwwwllly.

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post #13 of 39 Old 08-30-2006, 09:06 PM
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I'll take those tips (that didn't sound right at all). I'm hoping to get the fork seals replaced on my '83 440 this weekend. That project bike is progressing veeeeerrrrrry sloooooooowwwwwllly.
You have a PM.

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post #14 of 39 Old 08-31-2006, 12:19 AM Thread Starter
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Well... I lost my steam after work and dinner so I napped. When I sleep early I always wake long before I really go to bed and need a project so I went and drained the coolant and yanked the water pump. The purple fluid is coming from the weeping / drain hole. I have now ordered the part from Service Honda at $105. It includes the entire unit, the pump and impeller body, the water pump cover, bolts, o-rings. I was surprised to find that you can buy all the reusable parts separate but not the water pump impeller housing (with impeller) by itself. Lame!

Mike,

PM me those tips as well. Whatever ya got. Thanks!

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post #15 of 39 Old 08-31-2006, 12:37 AM
 
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two things to address here.


there is NO reason for running engine ice or water wetter except for a tech inspection at the racetrack.. I had to run wetter in my 900rr when it went to the track that was the only reason I ran it.

Bock... Good luck with your kawi... I restored an 81 440 ltd... Kawi doesn't stock alot of stuff anymore for it.. the primary chain is IMPOSSIBLE to find... lest maybe a score on ebay. Fork seals are pretty easy on the 440 just be careful not to bend the retainer ring that holds in the top seal.

for the poor man fork oil filler use a turkey baster with the measurements on it. bel ray 10 weight is optimal for the ltd....

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post #16 of 39 Old 08-31-2006, 12:47 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by typhoonblue919 View Post
...there is NO reason for running engine ice or water wetter except for a tech inspection at the racetrack.. I had to run wetter in my 900rr when it went to the track that was the only reason I ran it.
Isn't there any value in feel good points for the trick sh!t? Besides... I do race! Just cuz they don't check that doesn't mean I shouldn't use the stuff that is recommended for the track.. right? Is it cuz it is easier to clean in the event of a spill? Besides.. It was cool to have blue coolant. Now it's cool to have purple coolant.

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post #17 of 39 Old 08-31-2006, 04:34 AM
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Quote:
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Mike,

PM me those tips as well. Whatever ya got. Thanks!
You have a PM

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post #18 of 39 Old 08-31-2006, 06:32 AM
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for the poor man fork oil filler use a turkey baster with the measurements on it. bel ray 10 weight is optimal for the ltd....
Okay, that leads me to more questions...you have a PM.

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post #19 of 39 Old 08-31-2006, 06:58 AM
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ok, this thread is freakin me out...

several weeks ago, the dreaded drip...of coolant under the h20 pump

i check the coolant, re-torque the housing bolts, kept an eye on running temps and thought it was good (no more drip)....but nooooooo, now i gotta worry about a weep hole???

so i might as well order the $105 part (part num. would be cool, save me a look up in the man.) and get it over with, cause one thing i'm not doin is overheatin !!

i used water wetter 2x, replaced w/ std. coolant afterwards...just didn't feel good about leaving wetter in there for thousands of miles but never thought i had any issues, until now

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post #20 of 39 Old 08-31-2006, 11:36 AM Thread Starter
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...so i might as well order the $105 part (part num. would be cool, save me a look up in the man.) and get it over with, cause one thing i'm not doin is overheatin !!
Part Number: 19200-MCZ-000
Description: WATER PUMP
Source: HONDA
Price: $112.14


Service Honda has it for the price I mentioned.

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post #21 of 39 Old 08-31-2006, 12:12 PM
 
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water wetter does not have the lubricity that the factory coolant has... the baffling that is inside the pump breaks down quicker than otherwise... thus a leak will appear prematurely.. Im not trying to be a dick about it but I have been down this road when I used to race... I had 3 waterpumps on my 900rr which has the same waterpump as the 919... Be that as it may having blue coolant is cool i guess LOL


yes the purpose of wetter and ice... is that it is easier to cleanup and not as slipppery as standard coolant... but that is also the reason that it buggers up pumps. It doesn't coat or lubricate as well.

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post #22 of 39 Old 08-31-2006, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by typhoonblue919 View Post
water wetter does not have the lubricity that the factory coolant has... the baffling that is inside the pump breaks down quicker than otherwise... thus a leak will appear prematurely.. Im not trying to be a dick about it but I have been down this road when I used to race... I had 3 waterpumps on my 900rr which has the same waterpump as the 919... Be that as it may having blue coolant is cool i guess LOL


yes the purpose of wetter and ice... is that it is easier to cleanup and not as slipppery as standard coolant... but that is also the reason that it buggers up pumps. It doesn't coat or lubricate as well.

I've been waiting to hear that for years. Thanks!

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post #23 of 39 Old 08-31-2006, 01:14 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by typhoonblue919 View Post
water wetter does not have the lubricity that the factory coolant has... the baffling that is inside the pump breaks down quicker than otherwise... thus a leak will appear prematurely.. Im not trying to be a dick about it but I have been down this road when I used to race... I had 3 waterpumps on my 900rr which has the same waterpump as the 919... Be that as it may having blue coolant is cool i guess LOL


yes the purpose of wetter and ice... is that it is easier to cleanup and not as slipppery as standard coolant... but that is also the reason that it buggers up pumps. It doesn't coat or lubricate as well.
Well.. Maybe it's time to go back to the green juice? I put the Engine Ice in my Polaris predator as well. The Predator definitely runs cooler. What a waste of money. Oh well?!

Thanks for the advanced info. Now I have to decide. Cool blue coolant what turns purple & water pumps that last 3000 miles... or green coolant? Hum? Hard choice!

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post #24 of 39 Old 09-01-2006, 12:10 AM
 
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keep replacing waterpumps.. think of the big picture... you are supporting honda's parts department that way


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post #25 of 39 Old 09-01-2006, 12:20 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by typhoonblue919 View Post
keep replacing waterpumps.. think of the big picture... you are supporting honda's parts department that way

No! Freakin' 20,000 miles on a Honda water pump is crazy. It should last 2 or 3 times that.. at least. Done with the blue.. going back to green.

Thanks again for the info.

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post #26 of 39 Old 09-02-2006, 10:11 AM
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Cycho, are you going to continue running the engine ice after replacing the pump. I really dont think that a water pump should be leaking at 20,000 miles, unless the engine ice isnt lubricating things as well as regular antifreeze.

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post #27 of 39 Old 09-03-2006, 04:39 AM
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I can't attest to the running of just water wetter and water, I've heard the lubricity dismay as well,
for what it's worth, try running the mix (listed on back of bottle) of antifreeze, water , and the water wetter if your set on it. This is reccomended for street use anyway, and provides the lubiness of the glycol and the freeze properties as well. Also as I stated, I've noticed gret differences on 4 footed vehicles, not yet on 2 wheels... but will be soon..

as far as cleanliness goes, on cars, I've installed a few radiator upgrades, the ones that ran the longest on stock stuff, or normal coolant were a little more gunked up than the ones who ran water wetter anti mix for duration... although, I don't know the frequency of flushes in either, but assuming with vehicles under 60k miles, they hadn't been... I dunno if the wetter made this difference or not....

Wouldn't it be nice to have a shop and all the financing to run odd tests such as these??

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post #28 of 39 Old 11-14-2006, 09:00 AM
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it's a done deal...i have this problem, no gettin around it

pi$$es me off cause i've swapped the coolant enough...but damn, i did use water wetter a couple times...never again though

this is freakin me a little bit cause i've got ww in my trackbike as well...dagnabit

hey, anyone who's replaced the h20pump...did u inspect it to find the exact nature of the failure??? typh? moto?

i'm gonna tear mine down cause no way in hell should this be happening

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post #29 of 39 Old 11-14-2006, 11:52 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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it's a done deal...i have this problem, no gettin around it

pi$$es me off cause i've swapped the coolant enough...but damn, i did use water wetter a couple times...never again though

this is freakin me a little bit cause i've got ww in my trackbike as well...dagnabit

hey, anyone who's replaced the h20pump...did u inspect it to find the exact nature of the failure??? typh? moto?

i'm gonna tear mine down cause no way in hell should this be happening
I had to run with the leaky pump for several weeks as the replacement was on back-order all over the country. It did finally come, and I replaced it right then. Stupid Engine Ice crap. I only tried to disassemble the old pump for a few minutes before realizing that I had a shinny new one already installed.. so I tossed it and went on with life. I can only guess that the seal failed as a result of cracking or not getting the proper lubricants.. but I guess I will never know? Also, for the record, I used the real Honda HP Pro green juice when it went back together. So RD, are your water pumps actually leaking now?

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post #30 of 39 Old 11-14-2006, 12:23 PM
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just noticed "the drip" again this past weekend...had disappeared for a couple months but i'm not taking any more chances, shoulda ordered the stuff back when i saw the drip the first time

i'll be usin the honda stuff as well...no screwin around this time

if i do track the 9r again, and have to use w/wetter, i'll replace it the following week instead of running it for a couple months

i gotta believe it's just a seal that's gone bad, if i could narrow it down to a single seal, might save some others the hassle (and a $100+)...for me, peace of mind on my roadbike is essential, i ride too many places that you just don't want to break down (parts of philly, trenton, the middle of nowhere state parks)

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post #31 of 39 Old 03-29-2012, 09:03 AM
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I'm bringing up this thread for guys that are planning to track this year.

I'll be running regular coolant until I absolutely have to. I'll try to stay in intermediate, but will have to swap out for the races.

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post #32 of 39 Old 03-29-2012, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shmoo
I'm bringing up this thread for guys that are planning to track this year.

I'll be running regular coolant until I absolutely have to. I'll try to stay in intermediate, but will have to swap out for the races.
Honestly water is better than anti-freeze for coolant.

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post #33 of 39 Old 03-29-2012, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Shreddin Rubber View Post
Honestly water is better than anti-freeze for coolant.
Except for the whole 'causing corrosion,' 'no pump lubrication' and 'low boiling point/high freezing point' things, sure!

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post #34 of 39 Old 03-29-2012, 01:59 PM
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I just read something weird where Engine Ice was approved, then taken off the list. Water wetter time.

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post #35 of 39 Old 03-29-2012, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
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Honestly water is better than anti-freeze for coolant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CB700S View Post
Except for the whole 'causing corrosion,' 'no pump lubrication' and 'low boiling point/high freezing point' things, sure!
His statement is correct, keeping in mind he only mentioned the thermal conductivity property of just water, without additives. He mentioned nothing about corrosion or states of matter change.

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post #36 of 39 Old 03-29-2012, 02:03 PM
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Yes, in transferring heat it is better. But at everything else a motor vehicle coolant must do, water suuuuuuuuucks.

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post #37 of 39 Old 03-29-2012, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Shmoo View Post
I just read something weird where Engine Ice was approved, then taken off the list. Water wetter time.
I thought they used Water Wetter and it caused failed pumps, too? Or is that because it's still better than just plain water?

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post #38 of 39 Old 03-29-2012, 02:40 PM
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From what I read, it happens on occasion. But there are too many variables - maybe the pump was on its way out, maybe they used tap water, maybe they didn't flush the system.

I'll run the stuff, but I think I'll have to keep flip flopping with coolant mix in between race days.

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post #39 of 39 Old 03-29-2012, 02:41 PM
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The most common failure point for a coolant pump is the mechanical seal just behind (and bearing against) the back of the impeller -- the only way coolant can come out of the weep hole. It has a rough life what with the heat, vibration, and surface speed, and if the coolant doesn't have sufficient lubricity the face of the seal wears out astoundingly quickly. In fact I know for sure a pump will fail 10 times as fast when plain water is used instead of coolant. This is especially common if the pump is changed and fed plain water instead of coolant -- the sealing surface has to break in, and with little or no lubrication it will just break.

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