Downshifting issues - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 23 Old 05-06-2006, 06:27 PM Thread Starter
Milites Gregarius
 
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Downshifting issues

I got to ride my 919 for the first extended ride today. I noticed that when downshifting it doesn't seem to want to gear down with the clutch lever all the way in. If I pull it say half way in the bike shifts better. I checked the adjustment and all seems well. Just curious if anyone else has had a similar experience.

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post #2 of 23 Old 05-06-2006, 07:11 PM
 
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just out of curiosity what year is your 919... mine is an 02' and it seems to shift alot smoother than heyarchie's 05'


also what oil are you running... that will make a huge difference ... mine shifts like crap once the oil starts breaking down.

I use bel ray.. heyarchie's running motul...

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post #3 of 23 Old 05-06-2006, 07:20 PM Thread Starter
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2003 with Honda GN-4... just changed a month ago (according to the guy I bought it from). The oil looks fine, I was going to change it at 4000 miles anyway.

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post #4 of 23 Old 05-06-2006, 07:31 PM
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My '04 definitely shifts smoother and quieter once I started using Shell Rotella 15w40. (Walmart)
The Honda oil I previously had in the bike made gear changes notchy and clunky.
Same results with wifey's SV 650. Smooth and quiet.....
Z

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post #5 of 23 Old 05-06-2006, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus
My '04 definitely shifts smoother and quieter once I started using Shell Rotella 15w40. (Walmart)
The Honda oil I previously had in the bike made gear changes notchy and clunky.
Same results with wifey's SV 650. Smooth and quiet.....
Z
+! LOVE this oil. Both my 2002 919 and 2005 SV1000 run and SHIFT awesome with this oil!

post #6 of 23 Old 05-06-2006, 09:40 PM
 
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you are aware that the rotella is a diesel engine blend right?

guess it will work if your not revving the hell outta the bike, but its really heavy for the high rev's Its too thick to move through the oil ports quickly.

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post #7 of 23 Old 05-07-2006, 06:08 AM
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This apparent problem usually occurs to new owners. Assuming the clutch lever is adjusted properly (3/8" - 13/16" free play), I attribute the downshifting issue to what is referred to as "the learning curve." Like any new bike there is a period of adjustment between you and machine.

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post #8 of 23 Old 05-07-2006, 06:41 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m51142
This apparent problem usually occurs to new owners. Assuming the clutch lever is adjusted properly (3/8" - 13/16" free play), I attribute the downshifting issue to what is referred to as "the learning curve." Like any new bike there is a period of adjustment between you and machine.

This is what I was thinking too as it seems to go away if I only pull the lever in about 1/2 - 3/4 of the way. Upshifts are fine, it just doesn't want to go into gear on downshift with the clutch handle pulled all the way to the grip.

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post #9 of 23 Old 05-07-2006, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by typhoonblue919
you are aware that the rotella is a diesel engine blend right?

guess it will work if your not revving the hell outta the bike, but its really heavy for the high rev's Its too thick to move through the oil ports quickly.
Owners manual says you can use up to 20-50 in warmer climates, so I don't think 15 wt is to heavy. I ride em hard and have had great success with this oil! Lots of folks using the Rotella 15-40 out there and never heard a negitive comment. Plus, both the 919 and the SV1000 red line much lower than most. Out of curiousity, do you have any evidence to support "Its really heavy for high for the high revs. Its (15 wt) to thick to move through the oil ports quickly." Any others wish to comment?

post #10 of 23 Old 05-07-2006, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amchev
This is what I was thinking too as it seems to go away if I only pull the lever in about 1/2 - 3/4 of the way. Upshifts are fine, it just doesn't want to go into gear on downshift with the clutch handle pulled all the way to the grip.
There is no reason the pull the lever all the way to the grip. Try this, with the gear shift loaded slightly with your foot, a simple one finger pull is all that is needed to engage the clutch allowing a smooth gear change.

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post #11 of 23 Old 05-07-2006, 12:32 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m51142
There is no reason the pull the lever all the way to the grip. Try this, with the gear shift loaded slightly with your foot, a simple one finger pull is all that is needed to engage the clutch allowing a smooth gear change.
I agree, on upshifts this is what I do. I have a tendency to grabe the whole lever when downshifting and coming to a stop. Now that i think about it the only time I noticed this was when I was in fact downshifting to stop or turn.

Regarding the Rotella T. I know a lot of SV650 guys love the stuff too. It does meet the "SJ" requiremnt in the owner's manual. Anyone used the 5w 40 Rotella synthetic in a 919?

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post #12 of 23 Old 05-07-2006, 03:28 PM
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Yes,
the Rotella 5-40 synth works fine in my 9er.
Cheers,
Z

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post #13 of 23 Old 05-07-2006, 06:48 PM
 
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Change to a 10W-40 synthetic oil (Honda GN-4 is very thick)

Learn to be smoother by running the rpm's up a little more between gears.

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post #14 of 23 Old 05-08-2006, 12:04 PM
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& make sure you do all your downshifting before you come to a stop! I see guys all the time come to a stop sign then try to downshift through 3 gears while stationary. The tranny isn't designed to work that way.

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post #15 of 23 Old 08-12-2006, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter
& make sure you do all your downshifting before you come to a stop! I see guys all the time come to a stop sign then try to downshift through 3 gears while stationary. The tranny isn't designed to work that way.
Heh. That's me exactly. I've been doing it 85% of the time ever since I started riding years ago. I always thought I had a problem with the bike... NOW you tell me.

Out of curiosity, how much engine braking do you guys use?

Reese

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post #16 of 23 Old 08-12-2006, 09:02 AM
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As much as possible. Some guys say that brakes are easier to change than engines, but I was taught that engines are made to be run, so run them! Use the engine to brake, and downshift thru all your gears before coming to a stop. Also, if you pull in the clutch and hammer down thru your gears, your only option left in the event of an emergency is the brakes. If you downshift properly, you should be in the correct gear to hit the gas to get out of a bad situation. (Consequently, that's is exactly how the safety course teaches gear shifting.)

Just one more thought. The guys at the dealer told me that the 9er has a lot less engine brake than the V-Star I traded in, but that V-star wouldn't stop with the engine any faster than the 9er. Any thoughts?

-Joe
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post #17 of 23 Old 08-12-2006, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooker_47
As much as possible. Some guys say that brakes are easier to change than engines, but I was taught that engines are made to be run, so run them! Use the engine to brake, and downshift thru all your gears before coming to a stop. Also, if you pull in the clutch and hammer down thru your gears, your only option left in the event of an emergency is the brakes. If you downshift properly, you should be in the correct gear to hit the gas to get out of a bad situation. (Consequently, that's is exactly how the safety course teaches gear shifting.)

Just one more thought. The guys at the dealer told me that the 9er has a lot less engine brake than the V-Star I traded in, but that V-star wouldn't stop with the engine any faster than the 9er. Any thoughts?

this is exactly right. engine braking is something that good riders know how to utilize. always be in the right gear at the right time. eventualy it will save you from a bad situation.

Most problems in life can be fixed... Stupid isn't one of em'.
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post #18 of 23 Old 08-12-2006, 11:48 AM
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Jus also be aware that engine braking causes more wear & tear on your tire than typical acceleration does. Go screaming down an off ramp & let the engine slow the bike down through a couple gears & then immediately stop & look at your rear tire & you will see thousands of tiny rolls of rubber coming up from the center of the tire that have rolled backwards due to the tire slipping against the pavement.

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post #19 of 23 Old 08-12-2006, 04:29 PM
 
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Try kicking it down just before the clutch lever hits the bar, if you wait until it hits the bar it will sometimes be clunky.

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post #20 of 23 Old 08-12-2006, 09:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter
Jus also be aware that engine braking causes more wear & tear on your tire than typical acceleration does. Go screaming down an off ramp & let the engine slow the bike down through a couple gears & then immediately stop & look at your rear tire & you will see thousands of tiny rolls of rubber coming up from the center of the tire that have rolled backwards due to the tire slipping against the pavement.
Does this happen during any engine braking or just when you don't rev match and get wheel hop downshifting at high rpm?
This might explain why I got only 3000 miles out of my last D220(sport-touring tire).


Is it ok to preload the shifter on upshifts and downshifts because I get way smoother shifting this way, but I wonder if it is bad to be doing all this preloading?

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post #21 of 23 Old 08-12-2006, 09:53 PM
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Ive noticed that kind of feeling when the oil starts to break down, but havent had any problems at all shifting, still solid and positive, when i was using the honda hp oil 10-40 after roughly 2k miles or so, it would get slightly "clunkier" and shifted a little harder than I'd prefer,
I switched to the Repsol 10-50 fully syn and im just guessing that the fully syn with the higher tolerance for heat, and resisting breakdown at higher temperatures is what did it. havent had any of the hard shifting, or "clunk" with that oil. another thing ive noticed is that honda trannies seem to be slightly harsher it he shifting process than some other bikes.

as far as too thick, once the engine and oil and all the goods are running hot, shouldn't be too much of a problem, don't race bikes use a thicker weight oil, as they are running hotter?

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post #22 of 23 Old 08-14-2006, 05:44 AM
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the Repsol full syn will also start shifting notchy when it starts to go off too.

Everything you have ever wanted to know about shifting
http://www.vf750fd.com/blurbs/shifting.html

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post #23 of 23 Old 08-14-2006, 11:55 PM
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Just to say thankyou LDH, a while-back, when lurking about on here, I switched to the fully syn repsol 10w50 on your reccomendation and have been abso-f'n-lutely amazed at the difference it made. I have noticed the degredation issue, but it isn't near as noticeable as the honda oil, or the mobil I tried for 3 oil changes. Very crisp shifts, an overall smoother feeling, and not as noticeable difference when running very hot.

I would urge everyone to give it a shot, and like stated, it's expensive, but not really that much more if you get it in bulk!

Also, they don't give out the t-shirts anymore, that ended in march sometime...

So once agian, Thank's LDH!!

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