Deceleration Shimmy - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 42 Old 11-16-2006, 07:31 PM
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Exclamation Deceleration Shimmy

Hi All:

I have a 2006 919 that currently has 6093 miles on the odometer. The tires are the originals [Bridgestone Battlax BT56, Front 120/70 ZR 17, Rear 180/55 ZR17]. Currently installed are GIVI top and side cases and a GIVI windshield. I have experienced a “Deceleration Shimmy” for the past 3000 miles. The shimmy would first started to develop between 25 and 35 MPH. Now it develops at 45 MPH. Also the motorcycle has a tendency to “wonder” when I am on a curved flyover with rain groves in the pavement.

During the 4000-mile service, the shop adjusted the suspension for a stiffer ride hoping that would solve the problem. But it just made the shimmy sharper. There is no apparent “cupping” on the front tire.

At this point I assume that the problem is the tires. My commute to work is about 65 miles per day [round trip]. I am in a mix of traffic [HOV Lanes, Beltway and Old Town streets] and will be riding summer and winter [though my limit is 18 Degrees Fahrenheit]. The average speed on the HOV lanes is between 75 and 85 MPH. Any suggestion on a replacement tire or any ideas what is causing the problem would be appreciated.

Thanks!

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post #2 of 42 Old 11-16-2006, 07:51 PM
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06 919 with 1000 miles, I had experienced a very minor decel shimmy,head shake, or wobble..at decel around 45 mph. I noticed it from day one, with 450 miles. I bought it used. The shop test drove, noticed shimmy, and rebalanced front tire. after another 200 miles, still there. I took it back, the service writer drove the bike.. no problems.. he stated it was a solid bike, he noticed nothing..I stated there is a problem, and I was not happy about it.. to make a long story short the service mgr. had a new set of tires (Mich. Pilot Power) put on it, I have only put 25 miles on it; however I have not noticed the "shimmy" at all, and have duplicated all driving conditions where it used to happen. Try some new tires first..

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post #3 of 42 Old 11-16-2006, 08:52 PM
 
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I also have this going on, happens from about 45mph to 35mph for me. When I was at the shop I asked them to re-balance my front tire but he told me that would not cause this symptom. He said my tire is out of round, so I assumed he was right and just have been putting up with the problem until I get a new tire.

To be clear my problem feels like the front end is going up and down slightly at the aformentioned speeds. If I let go of the bars while engine braking through these speeds the front end starts occilating pretty bad.

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post #4 of 42 Old 11-16-2006, 09:03 PM
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Guys get the (Mich. Pilot Power) and this should help I commute every day 50+ miles and the best performing tire for me although I live in Texas its gets hot here so I dont know about the temp , does work well in Texas!!

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post #5 of 42 Old 11-16-2006, 09:53 PM
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i'm guessing it's tire wear as well. new skins should do the trick. Pilot powers are good tires although i never ride the interstate so i'm not sure how well they wear for that.
i have a set on now that i did two track days on this summer + about 3500 miles of street riding and they probably have about another 1k left in them on the center.

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post #6 of 42 Old 11-16-2006, 10:01 PM
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Certainly put new rubber on. 6100 miles on a set of tires? Wow! The rear must have been replaced somewheres along the line.

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post #7 of 42 Old 11-16-2006, 11:22 PM
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I had about 6100 on the original tires, Michelin Hi Sports, and got a small puncture in the rear and had it replaced with a Pilot Road. Seems to be a great tire for highway use and still all I need for canyon carving. Still running the stock front with about 7000 total now.
Thankfully never had any sort of shimmy to it.

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post #8 of 42 Old 11-17-2006, 01:24 PM
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Rotate your tires!! Duh

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post #9 of 42 Old 11-17-2006, 01:27 PM
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But seriously, How do you get 7000 miles out of a set of tires?

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post #10 of 42 Old 11-17-2006, 08:38 PM
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Thanks for the reply guys. Now I don’t feel so alone. I will take the your recommendations and checkout the Michelin Pilot Road. Regarding how much tread ware I have left on my original tires, I am going to have to dig out the tread depth gauge and get back to your all.

Again, thanks for the advice! It is really appreciated.

post #11 of 42 Old 11-19-2006, 04:44 AM
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I'd say tires as well, or possibly brake hanging slightly,

as this topic is covering tires, and noone replied to my tire question..
With the reccomendation of a few of you to try the pirelli diablo stradas.. I did, as an in-between performance and longevity between the Mich Pilot Powers and dunlop 220St As far as i can say It seems to perfect for that, better grip and feel than the 220s and probably would outlast the pilot powers...
Been having some odd feelings adjusting air pressure in these.. they do give more feedback than the 220s and feel a bit more seecure than the 220s,, havent driven them long enough to see about longevity, as new tires every 2 months isn't fun, so after donning a new set of the diablo stradas,. I have been trying to adjust the air pressure, but it doesnt seem to respond like most tires do, anyone running these have any suggestions? I now have them around 35 rear, and 30 front,, but still seems... off... might just have to run these at stock pressure??

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post #12 of 42 Old 11-19-2006, 07:23 AM
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Are your steering head bearings snug?

I had the front end shimmy for a while too. A Power Pilot up front cured mine. I won't run anything elce up front. Period. You'll get about 7000 miles out of the front and about half that much out of a Power Pilot rear, even if you ride hard. A lot of tires are good at first, then go away as they wear. Power Pilots are good to the last mile.

A Continental Road Attack is my favorite rear. But, always a Power pilot up front.

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post #13 of 42 Old 11-21-2006, 03:51 PM
 
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Is this problem inherent in the bike's design? Why is it necessary to switch to a particular tire to cure the problem? If it's just a matter of tire wear, shouldn't any new tire fix the problem?

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post #14 of 42 Old 11-21-2006, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pumpkinhead View Post
Is this problem inherent in the bike's design? Why is it necessary to switch to a particular tire to cure the problem? If it's just a matter of tire wear, shouldn't any new tire fix the problem?
I've had a few bikes do this and a new tire has always solved the problem. I started putting my bikes on stands about 4 years ago and have never had the problem since. I don't think any tire likes setting at rest with the weight on one side. YMMV.

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post #15 of 42 Old 11-21-2006, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HondaJim View Post
I've had a few bikes do this and a new tire has always solved the problem. I started putting my bikes on stands about 4 years ago and have never had the problem since. I don't think any tire likes setting at rest with the weight on one side. YMMV.
That's a thought I really didn't think that just one type of tire fixes the problem cause i have Metzler M1's and don't have the problem but my orignal bridgestone did and what does YMMV mean?

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post #16 of 42 Old 11-21-2006, 08:56 PM
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YMMV-Your Mileage May Vary

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post #17 of 42 Old 11-25-2006, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pumpkinhead View Post
Is this problem inherent in the bike's design? Why is it necessary to switch to a particular tire to cure the problem? If it's just a matter of tire wear, shouldn't any new tire fix the problem?
That's a good question Pumkin, (inherent design) any 919 experts care to expand on that....?

In the second post to this thread I explaind that my problem was fixed...I was wrong... I still have the 45 MPH decel shimmy, strickly decel no power, or brakes, going straight. Under power, in turns, or in conditions with brakes applied, I do not notice the shimmy. I am a little nervous about head shake, here is a draft copy of text which made it into a safety article in a Military magazine:

Motorcycle Accident:

On May 18th, 2006 at 7:58AM I was heading South on I95, at interstate speed. Earlier that morning before I left, I prepared for my trip. Preparations for this trip were not much different than most others in the past. It was a little cool, so I wore an extra long sleeve shirt, then my heavy leather jacket. I was also wearing jeans, leather boots, gloves, and my full faced helmet. I had traveled about 80 miles on this trip, close to my destination, with no problems until this point. Traffic was building behind me in the center lane as I approached a slower moving semi. The right and left lane were both clear. I chose the right lane to move past the semi. As I started to move past the semi, at some point my front end started to wobble. Any rider who has experienced a high speed wobble can tell you, this is no fun. I recognized what was happening, so I backed off the throttle, thought to myself, “NO, PLEASE, NO”, and pushed to the right of the road, heading toward the emergency lane. Somewhere at this point, the front end became “crossed up” and the bike went into a “high side” crash which threw me off. I don’t remember flying through the air. However, I do remember sliding on the face of my helmet, palms of my hands, through the emergency lane and into the right-of-way on my stomach, with my hands over my head. After I came to a stop, and the dust cleared, I started to survey myself, picking up my right arm, left leg, etc… At this time another motorist put their hand on my back and advised me to stay still, which I did. As I lay there, another motorist stopped to assist. This person was a nurse. She started to talk to me to make sure I was ok. Obviously, I was a little sore in some places. The EMS team arrived and asked how I was doing. They asked if I could sit up, which I did, and I removed my helmet. I said I could stand, which I did, and I walked away from this accident with very minor scratches and bruises.

The circumstances and conditions of this accident certainly were in my favor. However my choice to wear the proper equipment prior to getting on the motorcycle was the second largest factor contributing to my survival, and my current quality of life. The largest factor contributing to my survival is simply a miracle! Riders: wear a full faced helmet, leather, and cover every inch of skin. BE PREPARED!!!

I sure would like to get this figured out, I like my 919, and do not want to experience another wreck like I did on May 18th. 2006.

What's next? I guess I will take it back to the dealer, and get them to check the head bearings.

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post #18 of 42 Old 11-25-2006, 04:49 PM
 
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I'm seeing different descriptions of the problem from different people. Are we talking about the front wheel bouncing up and down, or slapping side to side?

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post #19 of 42 Old 11-25-2006, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pumpkinhead View Post
I'm seeing different descriptions of the problem from different people. Are we talking about the front wheel bouncing up and down, or slapping side to side?
Side to side on mine..

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post #20 of 42 Old 11-25-2006, 09:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pumpkinhead View Post
I'm seeing different descriptions of the problem from different people. Are we talking about the front wheel bouncing up and down, or slapping side to side?
Quote:
Originally Posted by west467 View Post
Side to side on mine..
I believe it is actually just bouncing up and down, but this causes side to side occilations under deceleration.

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post #21 of 42 Old 11-25-2006, 09:19 PM
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6000+ miles on a set of B56's, pretty impressive.

1. You should replace your tires anyways.

2. I'd be it would fix this issue since even you said yourself that it didn't happen and then after 3000 miles or so it started up. And to me, 3000 miles is when to replace tires anyways. (although the BT56 will last longer[not 6000 miles though])

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post #22 of 42 Old 11-26-2006, 06:52 AM
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The guy in West's post experenced a tankslapper, which usually happens during hard aceleration, front end light, rough road and a couple of other contributing factors. Full on sportbikes with more agrassive geometery are somewhat prone to this. Some new bikes come with steering dampers from the factory. A tankslapper and the de-cel shimmy are 2 different things. The de-cel shimmy is annoying, but that's about it.

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post #23 of 42 Old 11-26-2006, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper View Post
The guy in West's post experenced a tankslapper, which usually happens during hard aceleration, front end light, rough road and a couple of other contributing factors. Full on sportbikes with more agrassive geometery are somewhat prone to this. Some new bikes come with steering dampers from the factory. A tankslapper and the de-cel shimmy are 2 different things. The de-cel shimmy is annoying, but that's about it.
That guy in West's post was me... It took me 5 months to get back on a bike, and I hope the decel shimmy is only annoying. The bike I had the accident on was a 2002 SuperGlide Sport (FXDX). I don't know what caused the accident, and I surely do not want to experience it again. This has caused me to be just a little more anal about my bike.

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post #24 of 42 Old 11-26-2006, 01:17 PM
 
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Quote:
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A tankslapper and the de-cel shimmy are 2 different things.
So the decel shimmy is the wheel bouncing up and down?

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post #25 of 42 Old 11-29-2006, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
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So the decel shimmy is the wheel bouncing up and down?
No, it's the bars going back and forth. Happens on lots of bikes usually around 40-50mph.

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post #26 of 42 Old 11-29-2006, 06:36 PM
 
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Then a steering damper should fix the problem, right?

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post #27 of 42 Old 11-21-2007, 05:03 PM
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I was not sure whether to start a new thread or add a post to this one. But here it goes.
I have a new 07 919, now with about 350 miles on it. On the way home from the dealership with 0 miles on it I noticed a slight left to right wobble when I would decelerate. I chalked it up to just getting use to a new bike. This is not a big problem it just doesn’t seem right. Today I did a search on “wobble” and found this thread.

My previous bike developed a high-speed wobble similar to the description in the post from “west467”. It started when I had around 20K or 30k miles on it. The first time it happened I was able to slow down before it got out of control. When I took the bike to my dealer for a diagnosis, the service manager said; don’t ride so fast, try a steering damper or have us check the steering head bearings. I went home, got my shop manual, a couple of magazine articles (pre-internet) and disassembled the front end. I found dents in the race of the lower bearing.

I cant or don’t want to believe this is the same problem. I don’t want to wrench on my brand new bike yet and I don’t want to see the blank stare from the guys at the dealership. I also don’t want to ignore this minor problem until it gets worse. Does anyone know if the steering head is assembled at the factory or is it part of the prep at the dealership? I saw that new tires corrected the issue for some. My tires have 350 miles on them. Any other ideas?
Thanks

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post #28 of 42 Old 11-21-2007, 06:12 PM
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From how high a speed and are you braking the front wheel when it happens, or just under engine braking?

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post #29 of 42 Old 11-21-2007, 07:01 PM
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It happens at lower speeds around 30MPH to 40MPH, and no brakes. If I am going around 55 or more and let off I don’t notice it. If I brake I don’t notice it. If I use a light grip on the bars I notice it more. Its not enough to shake the bars out of my hands, just a left to right wobble.

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post #30 of 42 Old 11-21-2007, 07:16 PM
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a full set of givi's with a sail on the front and it....moves around abit, go figure.

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post #31 of 42 Old 11-21-2007, 07:37 PM
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a full set of givi's with a sail on the front and it....moves around abit, go figure.
Is that the best you got for a one year old thread????

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post #32 of 42 Old 11-21-2007, 09:19 PM
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My bike had a slight shake side to side at low speeds when you took your hands off the bars on decel, I adjusted the suspension to 1 turn out from full stiff on the front, 5th notch up on the back with one and a half turns out from full stiff(230lb rider), the shimy has been gone since. If that doesn't work I would suggest a scott's steering dampener(about 400 bucks).

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post #33 of 42 Old 11-22-2007, 09:31 AM
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eb2u, my '02 has done this since I bought it used with 7,500 miles on it about 32,500 miles ago. It never gets worse than a slight weave so I refuse to worry about it. Actually, it is pretty common on modern motorcycles with a large difference in tire width front to rear, but doesn't normally cause a control issue. The physics of it are fairly simple: balancing a single track vehicle is a very dynamic process, requiring constant small adjustments not only by the rider and also by the bike itself -- it's constantly trying to fall over, then righting itself. in the good (bad?) old days when tire widths were close to the same this tiny "fall" would move both contact patches to about the same place on the treads, so loads were still more or less aligned. With the advent of wider rear tires the rear contact patch moves further away from center than the front, creating a thrust vector that pushes the bike back up with a little more force than previously, which causes a bit more overshoot and a slight hunt. Perfectly normal and will not degenerate into a control issue unless there is a misalignment or some other equipment problem. By the way, the bike is shipped from the factory with the front wheel off, but the forks fully assembled and bearing preload properly adjusted. There is a line on the PDI (Pre Delivery Inspection) form about checking the steering for looseness, binding or other problems, but I never found any problems with the hundreds of new bikes I've done a PDI on.
I like to think of it as the bike is showing some personality (bikeality?)

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post #34 of 42 Old 11-22-2007, 11:04 AM
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tankslappers are human error, either in calculation of environment or too much input at the controls

there is nothing wrong w/ the 919's geometry

getting the front end 'light' will have the front tire 'hunting' a bit

shimy this, shimy that, light front end, crossed up this and that, has noone ridden in the dirt before??? i have seriously abused my 919 and find it darn near impossible to screw up the tracking no matter how crossed up i land it...this bike is stinkin stable

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post #35 of 42 Old 11-22-2007, 12:42 PM
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+1 to RD,

I have come down from a couple of wheelies a little off center and the 9'r takes it with grace. I never noticed a decel prob w/mine. Hell I was driving back to my house one night last year, when I decided to just stand str8 up on the pegs through a slight left curve at 60. I had decelerated to about 50 when a deer shot out of the ditch in front of me and bolted across the road. I had no decel prob but I changed my knickers when I got back to the house!

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post #36 of 42 Old 11-22-2007, 01:39 PM
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good timing - i was just going to post a question about my shimmy

i've had my niner for about 3 years, and never noticed anything like this before, but last week:

i was coasting (decel, but not braking...) down a hill, 3rd gear, maybe 40mph, and i sat up and took my hands off the bars for a moment (which i have done before with no problems) and felt a vibration - i looked down and saw the handlebars whipping back and forth through a range of about 2 inches at the grips.

i grabbed the bars and everything settled down instantly. with my hands on the bars, i couldn't feel any vibration at all. the bike feels fine otherwise.

since then i've tried a few things to duplicate the problem, and was able to get it to shimmy one other time with my hands off the bars, but i never feel it trying to shimmy when my hands are on the bars, so the force behind the shimmy must be very light.

generally, i feel like the 919 is incredibly stable. when the front end has gone a little funny in the past (example: front gets light under acceleration over a bump and comes down a little out of alignment) i've reacted by loosening my arms and letting it move around a little and settle down on its own. the front end has always stabalized quickly on its own, and shakes have never worsened after the initial movement.

it sounds like my shimmy isn't too unusual, so i'm not going to worry about it. i do like the suggestion that sitting on the side-stand could cause the front tire to be a little mis-shapen - both times this has happened it was in cool weather during rides of less than 20 miles after the bike sat for days on the side-stand.

anyway, just my $0.02...
...j919

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post #37 of 42 Old 11-22-2007, 02:52 PM
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Well, after going for a ride today I see mine does the same thing, but only if I take my hands off the bars under decel at about 30mph or so. Very slight. Never would have noticed had someone not pointed it out.

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post #38 of 42 Old 11-22-2007, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
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Well, after going for a ride today I see mine does the same thing, but only if I take my hands off the bars under decel at about 30mph or so. Very slight. Never would have noticed had someone not pointed it out.
You probably were near a 2004 ZX10R like mine and your 919 got scared and started to shake. See, that's why I got a couple Hornet stickers on my 10R so Hornets won't get frightened. The guy you were near most likely did NOT have Hornet stickers on his 2004 ZX10R.

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post #39 of 42 Old 11-26-2007, 07:48 PM
 
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Similiar issues

I just bought an '02 919 with 10k miles on it the other week and am not happy about how the front-end feels. I get the same decel shimmy (side-side) mentioned numerous times above, but also I feel like the wheel bounces up-down a bit on less than perfect roads (if you know where "perfect" roads are in MT, let me know). I am considering having the front forks rebuilt (new seals) and a bit thicker fork oil. Also considering a steering dampener. Any suggestions? What is a good dampener for the $$$? Thanks guys.

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post #40 of 42 Old 11-27-2007, 04:44 AM
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Location: Michigan
Posts: 3,184
Rep Power: 1
 
This may not be your problem but when a bike wobbles the first thing I check is the wheel alignment. Line the rear tire up with the front wheel instead of anything on the bike like the swing arm. This can be done with a string or if you're fancy use a laser.

If that doesn't work then I'd look into the bearings. (start with the easy stuff)

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