'Chugs' at low RPM? - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 30 Old 08-03-2008, 10:03 PM Thread Starter
 
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'Chugs' at low RPM?

Maybe I'm used to my old V-Twin cruiser... but it seems like my 9r chugs between 1500 - 3K rpm when taking off. Kind of has a stutter, then it picks up. Almost feels like the clutch is still trying to let loose.

Is this common?

I'm going to replace the plugs, and take a look at the throttle bodies in a while.

Any suggestions?

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post #2 of 30 Old 08-04-2008, 08:51 AM
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You're comparing apples to bananas. Your not in Kansas anymore Toto.

Leave the throttle bodies and plugs alone there's nothing wrong with your bike. Your V2 didn't rev to 10,000, and this thing isn't made to take off at 1500rpm. Spin that engine a bit more and slip the clutch. This isn't a cruiser. Ride it like you mean it.

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post #3 of 30 Old 08-04-2008, 09:08 AM
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The 919 should be able to pull away from a stop easily from the rpm range you mention, at least mine will. Tilt up the tank and check the vacuum hose from the fuel pressure regulator for liquid fuel -- if the diaphragm has a pinhole in it fuel may be leaking past it and loading up cylinders 2 & 3. I've heard of several on this forum with this problem.

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post #4 of 30 Old 08-04-2008, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper View Post
You're comparing apples to bananas. Your not in Kansas anymore Toto.

Leave the throttle bodies and plugs alone there's nothing wrong with your bike. Your V2 didn't rev to 10,000, and this thing isn't made to take off at 1500rpm. Spin that engine a bit more and slip the clutch. This isn't a cruiser. Ride it like you mean it.
That response just put a smile on my face.

Too bad it's raining here...

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post #5 of 30 Old 08-04-2008, 11:30 AM
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That response just put a smile on my face.

Too bad it's raining here...
ditto for me
Vtwins..........





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post #6 of 30 Old 08-04-2008, 04:45 PM
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Before plugs. I would look to the Hand on the throttle(Maybe to gentle),then to the chain.
A loose chain can do this also,as well as ones that need to be cleaned/replaced for binding.Not a likely cause as this is not your first bike.

Btw what type of miles on her?

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post #7 of 30 Old 08-04-2008, 07:16 PM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by tvetree View Post
Before plugs. I would look to the Hand on the throttle(Maybe to gentle),then to the chain.
A loose chain can do this also,as well as ones that need to be cleaned/replaced for binding.Not a likely cause as this is not your first bike.

Btw what type of miles on her?
Turned 10K on my way to work tonight. Bought it about 1 1/2 weeks ago with 9k Sure is a fun scoot.

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post #8 of 30 Old 08-04-2008, 07:24 PM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robtharalson View Post
The 919 should be able to pull away from a stop easily from the rpm range you mention, at least mine will. Tilt up the tank and check the vacuum hose from the fuel pressure regulator for liquid fuel -- if the diaphragm has a pinhole in it fuel may be leaking past it and loading up cylinders 2 & 3. I've heard of several on this forum with this problem.

Rob
Thank you sir. I have a Honda Service manual and will check into all of the vac lines.

Something else odd is that it pulses hard at idle... Almost like someone is gently bumping the gas every few seconds.

Throttle delivery just doesn't feel smooth.... Maybe it's just me... But sometimes I can roll onto the throttle and it feels smooth and controlled. Other times I start twisting and it shutters, then pulses, then'll pick up.

We're supposed to get some bad weather in a week or so... I'll probably run the gas tank low, then flip it back and start looking for cracked, pinched, lines and go from there.

Thanks again for the help.

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post #9 of 30 Old 08-05-2008, 11:14 AM
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I have five dollars that say there is nothing wrong with your 919.

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post #10 of 30 Old 08-05-2008, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Sniper View Post
I have five dollars that say there is nothing wrong with your 919.
You're faded. But let's make it $500. WT $ that is. Yeah, I'm chicken.

Rob

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post #11 of 30 Old 08-06-2008, 02:21 AM
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I don't know what being faded is.

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post #12 of 30 Old 08-06-2008, 03:49 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Sniper View Post
I have five dollars that say there is nothing wrong with your 919.
I've got $5 that says I can find something.

In fact - a can of injector cleaner made a big difference.

The prev. owner rode the bike less than 1K miles last year... It's been sitting with a 1/2 tank of gas for more than 6 months without being ran. I've ran a few tanks through it and the problem gets less noticable with every fill up. I think it's just got cobwebs.

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post #13 of 30 Old 08-06-2008, 12:16 PM
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So far you have old gas. When you find something wrong with the bike, like a "cracked or pinched line", you let us know.

BTW, 919 pulse a little at idle. That's normal.

It's also fuel injected, which makes it feel jerky to some. I think that's relative. If you come off of a 929, the 919 feels pretty well mannered.

The 919 also clunks when going from neutral to first. Makes you smell like hydrocarbons, makes ticking noises, buzzes at 60 mph, the seat is too hard for those with tender tooshies.... In other words if this thing was Itiaian, it'd be oosing in character. But since it's a Honda, it's a parts bin bike.

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post #14 of 30 Old 08-07-2008, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper View Post


BTW, 919 pulse a little at idle. That's normal.

It's also fuel injected, which makes it feel jerky to some. I think that's relative. If you come off of a 929, the 919 feels pretty well mannered.

The 919 also clunks when going from neutral to first. Makes you smell like hydrocarbons, makes ticking noises, buzzes at 60 mph, the seat is too hard for those with tender tooshies.... In other words if this thing was Itiaian, it'd be oosing in character. But since it's a Honda, it's a parts bin bike.
How very true,well put.

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post #15 of 30 Old 08-07-2008, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by nate View Post
In fact - a can of injector cleaner made a big difference.
Speaking of injector cleaner... does anyone have any thoughts on 'Marvel Mystery Oil' ?

Nate, btw how's your mpg?

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post #16 of 30 Old 08-07-2008, 08:38 PM
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Let's not forget throttle adjustment.
Make sure it's adjusted at 1/8" of play.
That makes a big improvement on engine response to rider input.
With this bike, the tighter the better.
Just sweep the bars & check that it doesn't get so tight it revs the motor.

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post #17 of 30 Old 08-07-2008, 09:27 PM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazooka Moe View Post
Speaking of injector cleaner... does anyone have any thoughts on 'Marvel Mystery Oil' ?

Nate, btw how's your mpg?
Last time I checked it got about 48 mpg. Not too bad....

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post #18 of 30 Old 08-07-2008, 09:29 PM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by xrmikey View Post
Let's not forget throttle adjustment.
Make sure it's adjusted at 1/8" of play.
That makes a big improvement on engine response to rider input.
With this bike, the tighter the better.
Just sweep the bars & check that it doesn't get so tight it revs the motor.
I need to check adjustment. It's definately got more slack than I would like.

The chugging problem is either getting better... Or I'm getting more used to the bike.

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post #19 of 30 Old 08-07-2008, 10:12 PM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Sniper View Post
So far you have old gas. When you find something wrong with the bike, like a "cracked or pinched line", you let us know.

BTW, 919 pulse a little at idle. That's normal.

It's also fuel injected, which makes it feel jerky to some. I think that's relative. If you come off of a 929, the 919 feels pretty well mannered.

The 919 also clunks when going from neutral to first. Makes you smell like hydrocarbons, makes ticking noises, buzzes at 60 mph, the seat is too hard for those with tender tooshies.... In other words if this thing was Itiaian, it'd be oosing in character. But since it's a Honda, it's a parts bin bike.
Why I mentioned pinched, cracked, (or missing or plugged) vac line:

The prev. owner installed an aftermarket intake. it uses a conical K&N filter with a stack that is aimed at my left leg. In the box of 'spares' that he gave me there is a check valve. When I asked where that came from his response was 'left over from intake install'. To my reply of

I haven't been able to find the intake setup anywhere online... I'll try to get some pics posted to see if you all could help me id it. I think I'd rather just put the stock box back into place with a stock replacement K&N filter.

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post #20 of 30 Old 08-08-2008, 02:55 AM
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I never had one, but I think the velocity stack did make the throttle twitchier. Yeah, I'd toss all that crap and return it to stock minus the flapper. When in doubt, Honda knows best.

I've had one since day 2, so I don't know what the bike is like without a PowerCommander, but on some bikes that helps smoothen the power delivery also.

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post #21 of 30 Old 08-18-2008, 07:06 AM Thread Starter
 
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I'm taking a big risk posting this.... As i might get some flack. But here goes.

I took the 9er to a small local shop. The owner has 25+ years in the industry and knows his stuff inside and out.

He picked up on the bad idle right away. He then took my scoot for a ride around the block and shook his head at me... "It's got a miss." he said.

I turned over my keys and asked him to get rid of the worn out 208s and replace them with some good tires. He recommended a set of Avon Storms as I do alot of highway riding.

Fast foreward 2 days and i'm back at his shop picking up the keys. Here's the list.

1) 1 cylinder missing, bad plug. Another cylinder would also miss once warmed up fully. The bike was leaned out from the K+N and velocity stack. The stack would act like a vac on the highway - actually pulling air out of the box. Plugs were replaced with NGKs one temp range cooler.

2) New 530 Regina chain. Old one was adjusted all the way out, and was just out of spec at it's current position. It was replaced because in another 1k or so miles I'd be replacing it...

3) New Avon Storms.

4) Throttle body boots had lossened up some... Cleaned TBs and tightened boots.

5) K+N was dry. Cleaned AF and serviced.

6) Pass side mirror hole stripped out. Drilled, tapped, and helicoiled.

7) Throttle twist was a bit loose, tightened to spec. and lubed cable

8) clutch cable adjusted and lubed cable.

9) Front brake pads in great shape. Rear at 35%. Adjusted rear brake.

10) headlight aimed high. Adjusted.

11) Seat lock loose. Tightened up.

12) Checked vac lines for leaks

So... Everyone that posed in this thread was partially correct. The chain was a bit loose, the throttle cable was fairly loose, the K+N velocity stack needs to hit the trash can, and the plugs were in bad shape. I'm sure I've missed something... He gave it a good once over and put everything back to Honda spec for me.

The reason I asked him to look it over isn't just because of it's poor running condition at idle, and low rpm, I'm also taking the 9er for one heckofa road trip this coming Friday.

Because I work swing shift, and my older brother works on a rotating 2nd shift schedule we only get to visit about 2 times a year. Some how our work schedules matched up this weekend so I'm headed to his place... which is about 200 miles away. Once there I'm crashing in his spare bedroom, and the next morning he's hopping on his new 650r and we're riding to an Air show close to Kansas City... About 60 miles from his house... If the weather holds out I'll have about 600 more miles on my bike when I return. I really wanted it in tip top shape as some stretches of Hwy 70 between my house and his is very desolate and i would rather not be stranded...

Thanks again everyone for the tips and advise. Much appreciated!

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post #22 of 30 Old 08-18-2008, 10:46 AM
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holy smokes, she should be riding like a top now...how much did all that cost you?

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post #23 of 30 Old 08-18-2008, 11:50 AM
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Looks like Sniper owes you $5, and he owes Rob $500 WT...

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post #24 of 30 Old 08-18-2008, 02:23 PM Thread Starter
 
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holy smokes, she should be riding like a top now...how much did all that cost you?
Uhhh... Well... Less than a 'big' shop would have charged.

Regina chain = 110
Mirrors (at his cost since the guy that ordered them didn't want them...) $30
Plugs = 30
Tires = 170 rear, 130 front
bottle of chain lube = ?
Heli coil for mirror = minimal
Heli coil for rear grab handle bolt that PO stripped = minimal

Tax, labor and parts added up to just under $650.

IMHO not bad considering the 'little' time consuming stuff he did while he was already in there.

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post #25 of 30 Old 08-18-2008, 02:25 PM Thread Starter
 
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Looks like Sniper owes you $5, and he owes Rob $500 WT...
I think Sniper wouldn't have made the bet if he was able to swing a leg over my bike and ride it for a minute or two. My description wasn't very descriptive.

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post #26 of 30 Old 08-18-2008, 04:30 PM
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two cylinders with a miss? two bad plugs? sounds to me like somebody may still be replacing a f press reg someday...

also, cleaned t/bodies? sure hope he didn't use a spray that's not compatible with the factory throttle plate coating...

and loose boots?

somebody's already been looking around for this problem, which will still turn out to be a vac line or f press reg once these plugs get a little dirty and kill your buzz.

that's my bet: to stick with Rob's line of thinking.

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post #27 of 30 Old 08-18-2008, 06:15 PM Thread Starter
 
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two cylinders with a miss? two bad plugs? sounds to me like somebody may still be replacing a f press reg someday...

also, cleaned t/bodies? sure hope he didn't use a spray that's not compatible with the factory throttle plate coating...

and loose boots?

somebody's already been looking around for this problem, which will still turn out to be a vac line or f press reg once these plugs get a little dirty and kill your buzz.

that's my bet: to stick with Rob's line of thinking.
boots were sealed up OK. But he could spin the clamps around by hand...

I'm not sure how he cleaned them out... But he's a pro, and has quite a few fuel injected bikes of his own.

I asked him to look at all of the vac lines, and reg. He obliged and stated on the receipt that everything checks out OK.

The plugs were'nt fowled. They were burned. The white tip turned a burned brown from running too lean / hot.

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post #28 of 30 Old 08-19-2008, 10:35 AM
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"boots were sealed up OK. But he could spin the clamps around by hand"
right. who loosened them up and why? they don't get that loose on their own. it insinuates to me that someone's been in there trying to rectify a problem.

"But he's a pro, and has quite a few fuel injected bikes of his own."
i don't know this man. but you should see some of the hacking destruction i've seen wrought by "pros".

i'm glad they weren't fowled. means you didn't suck in a chicken. if the boots were tight to the head and only the clamps were loose, how did the bike run hot/lean?

as a diagnostician, i see questions in your statements. i guess my being a cynic exacerbates the problem.

i'm not picking on you. but it just feels like your driveability concerns aren't over yet. i don't think the bike will leave you stranded, but i don't think it's in harmony yet.

i'm a motorcycle whisperer.

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post #29 of 30 Old 08-19-2008, 11:55 AM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
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"boots were sealed up OK. But he could spin the clamps around by hand"
right. who loosened them up and why? they don't get that loose on their own. it insinuates to me that someone's been in there trying to rectify a problem.

"But he's a pro, and has quite a few fuel injected bikes of his own."
i don't know this man. but you should see some of the hacking destruction i've seen wrought by "pros".

i'm glad they weren't fowled. means you didn't suck in a chicken. if the boots were tight to the head and only the clamps were loose, how did the bike run hot/lean?

as a diagnostician, i see questions in your statements. i guess my being a cynic exacerbates the problem.

i'm not picking on you. but it just feels like your driveability concerns aren't over yet. i don't think the bike will leave you stranded, but i don't think it's in harmony yet.

i'm a motorcycle whisperer.

Lean condition is from a velocity stack + dry k&n filter. He explained to me that the vel stack isn't a beneficial mod (PO installed). At highway speed the cylinder shape could cause a vaccuum sucking air away from the intake. I ride 80 miles of interstate every day.

I'm taking it for a long ride this weekend... If it hiccups I'll drop it back off at the shop.

I just called to ask about the clamps.
The rubber boots over time will shrink slightly... This is due to the rubber drying out/aging, the clamps were never tightened up from the factory. They weren't loose enough to slide off, but a slight push would spin them around the boot.... He just swabbed the tbs out to make sure there wasn't dust (I live on a gravel road) before he sealed them back up.

I appreciate the concern... and will update this thread after my trip if I have problems with the scoot or not.

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post #30 of 30 Old 08-19-2008, 01:19 PM
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i'm being blunt. having been in the repair field for years, his answers don't sound definitive.

"The rubber boots over time will shrink slightly... This is due to the rubber drying out/aging, the clamps were never tightened up from the factory."

anyone who says honda never tightened a clamp is someone who's opinion i take with a grain of salt. i know rubber boots shrink over time. how much time? nobody else has had a problem with rubber shrinkage ("like a frightened turtle!") on our bikes, so i question your bike's mechanic.

i don't think necessarily on this trip, but i do believe you are going to see some reoccurance of some symptoms.

that having been said, old gasoline would cause much of what's been described earlier.

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