Braking Power - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 32 Old 07-21-2015, 01:26 AM Thread Starter
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Braking Power

My partner has a Yamaha Jog 50cc scooter with a small single disc front brake and rear drum brake.

My 2007 Honda 919 has dual front discs (reasonably new pads) and a single rear disc brake.

Conducting a test from 50km/h to 0, I find the 50cc scooter outbrakes my 919 by a longshot.

Is this to be expected given the scooter is much lighter?

What options do I have to upgrade my braking power on the 919/is this necessary?

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post #2 of 32 Old 07-21-2015, 02:04 AM
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Weight is an issue, but the problem is weight transfer. The front tire has a small contact patch, yet that's where most of the braking happens.
How much rear braking are you doing?

Even using more rear brake only helps a bit, but it does help.

IMO, the front tire is the big issue with braking. It's also not anti-lock.

The reality is that the weight vs contact patch is the issue. Look at the contact patch of the scooter, then compare the weight. The best tires can't make up for that ratio difference.

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post #3 of 32 Old 07-21-2015, 01:55 PM
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What air pressure is your front tire set at?

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post #4 of 32 Old 07-21-2015, 02:16 PM
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Yeah, that shouldn't happen...lol.

Not to be sarcastic, but are you scared of grabbing to much brake on the 919?

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post #5 of 32 Old 07-23-2015, 08:32 AM
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i have steel braided front brake lines if you are interested! it helps alot.

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post #6 of 32 Old 07-23-2015, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by adambaron919 View Post
i have steel braided front brake lines if you are interested! it helps alot.

I have those and EBC HHH pads, mine work great.

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post #7 of 32 Old 07-23-2015, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by jnich77 View Post
I have those and EBC HHH pads, mine work great.

HAHA no they don't, you just think they do because you haven't used any proper brake pads.

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post #8 of 32 Old 07-23-2015, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by jnich77 View Post
I have those and EBC HHH pads, mine work great.
I assume you mean EBC HH that work great.
I have HHs as well.
They did work great, but note the past tense.
I am now a convert.
I did an inspection yesterday, beings suspicious about the rotor look and loss of initial bite and found my HHs to be badly heat checked and also displaying some break out and chunking on the trailing edge.
I know what did it, 135 mph down 3 gears for T1 at the track, hard braking to brake pass faster supersports.
The copper backing was still nice and flat, but had very noticeable heat discolouration.
Still plenty of pad thickness left.
Fine for street use, but not hard track use.

SBK5 Carbone Lorraine's are already enroute to me from LDH's desk at Kyle Racing.
There was no need to wait for the XBK5s as supercede the SBK5s.

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post #9 of 32 Old 07-24-2015, 04:18 AM
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HAHA no they don't, you just think they do because you haven't used any proper brake pads.

HAHA yes they do.

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post #10 of 32 Old 07-24-2015, 07:05 AM
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Fine for street use
Thus they work for me.

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post #11 of 32 Old 07-24-2015, 09:59 AM
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So as long as you don't actually need an HH type sintered race pad then the EBC's pads work fine

Sounds exactly like what I wrote in my article a decade ago
ROGUE RACING Brake Pads Review Page

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post #12 of 32 Old 07-24-2015, 10:45 AM
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Thus they work for me.
They were terrible for me on the street. I hated them to the point I couldn't wait to get them off! Replaced them with a set of used oem pads, much much better.

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post #13 of 32 Old 07-24-2015, 10:51 AM
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They were terrible for me on the street. I hated them to the point I couldn't wait to get them off! Replaced them with a set of used oem pads, much much better.
Meanwhile mine were fine on the street, noting that their squealing wasn't a bother for me.

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post #14 of 32 Old 07-24-2015, 11:30 AM
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Mine have always made a whirring sound and now have started squealing just as the bike comes to a stop, the mediocre performance is unchanged


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post #15 of 32 Old 07-24-2015, 11:32 AM
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I'm more than just casually curious as to what the Corbone Lorraine's are going to be like in comparison.
I've already eaten some crow on all this, and I'm wondering how big a serving I'll be putting on my last plate.
LDH must be giggling away by now ..................

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post #16 of 32 Old 07-24-2015, 11:37 AM
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Meanwhile mine were fine on the street, noting that their squealing wasn't a bother for me.
Keep in mind, this was in Phoenix. They didn't last long in the heat. I still have the pads and can take pictures if you like. They also destroyed one rotor which pissed me off to no end. And that was all on on the street.

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post #17 of 32 Old 07-24-2015, 11:48 AM
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Keep in mind, this was in Phoenix. They didn't last long in the heat. I still have the pads and can take pictures if you like. They also destroyed one rotor which pissed me off to no end. And that was all on on the street.
Hey PV !
If you're open to taking some pads pics and posting them I'd love to see them.
Also, do you still have the ruined rotor, or pics of it ?
McTavish McRomo

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post #18 of 32 Old 07-24-2015, 12:50 PM
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Personally I just like it when people realize what they have been missing. It's really not a matter of being right or wrong versus simply getting the most out of your equipment.

Most people have not had the luxuries I have had over the years. I mean how often do you really go through a set of brake pads and get to test a new pair let along get to test several different brands back to back in controlled conditions like I have been fortunate enough to experience multiple times over the years.

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post #19 of 32 Old 07-24-2015, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LDH View Post
Personally I just like it when people realize what they have been missing. It's really not a matter of being right or wrong versus simply getting the most out of your equipment. Most people have not had the luxuries I have had over the years. I mean how often do you really go through a set of brake pads and get to test a new pair let along get to test several different brands back to back in controlled conditions like I have been fortunate enough to experience multiple times over the years.
So then what are your top/favorite pads, I'm guessing probably two different ones, one for street and one for track?

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post #20 of 32 Old 07-25-2015, 01:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The End View Post
My partner has a Yamaha Jog 50cc scooter with a small single disc front brake and rear drum brake.

My 2007 Honda 919 has dual front discs (reasonably new pads) and a single rear disc brake.

Conducting a test from 50km/h to 0, I find the 50cc scooter outbrakes my 919 by a longshot.

Is this to be expected given the scooter is much lighter?

What options do I have to upgrade my braking power on the 919/is this necessary?
I run DP HH+ from a guy in New Plymouth. Epic. I know he has them to fit as they are the same as my Hawk. PM me on KB and i will let you know his details. Im about to get some for my girls 599.

You gunna do some ART days this season?

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post #21 of 32 Old 07-27-2015, 07:00 AM
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So then what are your top/favorite pads, I'm guessing probably two different ones, one for street and one for track?
Top favorite street pads? I'm sure many of us would be interested in the answer to that question.

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post #22 of 32 Old 07-27-2015, 12:48 PM
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Top favorite street pads? I'm sure many of us would be interested in the answer to that question.
I'm more interested in track pads... that's why I asked both....

Either way, I got impatient and ordered a set of Vesrah RJL's

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post #23 of 32 Old 07-27-2015, 01:33 PM
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The best street pads are without a doubt OEM Honda pads.

If you don't want to spend that kind of money or you have a dealer that refuses to use any lube when he screws you then the Carbone Lorraine XBK5's will do the trick at a discount and they are great at handling the occasional trackday too

My brake pads review article
ROGUE RACING Brake Pads Review Page

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post #24 of 32 Old 07-27-2015, 02:30 PM
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Come on now! The braking distance difference you encountered is only very peripherally due to the pads: primarily it's the available traction from a street oriented tire! With OEM pads I can easily howl the front on mine with one finger, and beyond that point there be dragons. No way around it given the load per square inch of the contact patch. Something less than half the weight will be able to stop faster given equal talent on the part of the brain controlling the hand pulling the lever. Now, if you both were trail braking into a corner the situation would probably be reversed due to the obvious deficiencies in the Jog's suspension, but that's not the case here.

Rob

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post #25 of 32 Old 11-09-2015, 09:42 PM
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Question. I've been reading tons of posts and replies but I want to hear your thoughts on this.

---Hitting the rear brake hard to skid just for fun and hearing a clunk almost identical to shifting into first.----

Bad for bike?
What causes this noise?

Yes I know you should use more front brake, yes I know I shouldn't skid the rear. Any info on what this noise is? Harmful for the beloved niner?

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post #26 of 32 Old 11-09-2015, 10:26 PM
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Chain slapping tight? Could have been the transmission getting knocked around as you let off the brake.

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post #27 of 32 Old 11-10-2015, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eatsleep1drum View Post
Question. I've been reading tons of posts and replies but I want to hear your thoughts on this.

---Hitting the rear brake hard to skid just for fun and hearing a clunk almost identical to shifting into first.----

Bad for bike?
What causes this noise?

Yes I know you should use more front brake, yes I know I shouldn't skid the rear. Any info on what this noise is? Harmful for the beloved niner?
I recently noticed mine does that too, haven't been able to find anything broken or loose so I haven't worried about it


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post #28 of 32 Old 11-10-2015, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eatsleep1drum View Post
Question. I've been reading tons of posts and replies but I want to hear your thoughts on this.

---Hitting the rear brake hard to skid just for fun and hearing a clunk almost identical to shifting into first.----

Bad for bike?
What causes this noise?

Yes I know you should use more front brake, yes I know I shouldn't skid the rear. Any info on what this noise is? Harmful for the beloved niner?
Could just be your nuts banging on the tank. Depending on the number of miles you may want to check the rear wheel bearings too. Over 30k seems to be the mileage where people start getting some play.

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post #29 of 32 Old 11-10-2015, 02:35 PM
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Potentially loose shock/ chain slap would be my guess.

30,000 mile 919 survivor. No plans of stopping the abuse any time soon.
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post #30 of 32 Old 11-11-2015, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eatsleep1drum View Post
Question. I've been reading tons of posts and replies but I want to hear your thoughts on this.

---Hitting the rear brake hard to skid just for fun and hearing a clunk almost identical to shifting into first.----

Bad for bike?
What causes this noise?

Yes I know you should use more front brake, yes I know I shouldn't skid the rear. Any info on what this noise is? Harmful for the beloved niner?
Pull in your clutch when you do it, problem should go away. Every bike with a chain will do it if it's in gear and the rear tire stops moving.

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post #31 of 32 Old 11-11-2015, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
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Pull in your clutch when you do it, problem should go away. Every bike with a chain will do it if it's in gear and the rear tire stops moving.

+1 Sort of amazed that someone didn't say this sooner. Engine braking is normally happening when you use the rear brake. If clutch is engaged then so is the engine. When you slam on the rear brake you are locking the engine along with the wheel. Not a very good idea...IMO.
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post #32 of 32 Old 11-12-2015, 06:38 AM
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^^ Funny, I automatically assumed most people did this when locking the rear . It's always been second nature to me.
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