Brake light doesn't work; what did I do now?? - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 28 Old 09-07-2008, 07:34 PM Thread Starter
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Brake light doesn't work; what did I do now??

I removed the snow shovel on the rear of the bike today and replaced it with a smaller piece of plastic the size of the license plate. Along the way I added an LED license plate light and LED blinkers front and rear.
Now I have a problem.
The headlight and taillight work, the license plate light and all the blinkers work, but the brake light no longer works. I've tried both front and rear levers, and nothing... I didn't go crazy randomly cutting wires, any ideas what I could have cut or knocked loose? I'm not even sure where I need to start looking.

Also, the LED blinkers blink too fast now. I have the Tridon EL12 that I used with the rear LEDs on my '04 919 but I don't see where it plugs in on the '07... the plugs look totally different. I don't recall if I had to do anything special to hook it up before.

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post #2 of 28 Old 09-07-2008, 07:55 PM
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I am not the genius you need here but... you need some resistors and possible a transistor of sorts.

My Honda shop helped me out when putting LEDs on my project bike.... They didn't get it quite right but an EE did. The Honda shop ordered 'what all the guys with the sport bikes get when they convert things to LED'. Be patient someone or your shop will answer your question.

Good Luck

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post #3 of 28 Old 09-07-2008, 08:18 PM
 
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post #4 of 28 Old 09-07-2008, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdtoney View Post
I removed the snow shovel on the rear of the bike today and replaced it with a smaller piece of plastic the size of the license plate. Along the way I added an LED license plate light and LED blinkers front and rear.
Now I have a problem.
The headlight and taillight work, the license plate light and all the blinkers work, but the brake light no longer works. I've tried both front and rear levers, and nothing... I didn't go crazy randomly cutting wires, any ideas what I could have cut or knocked loose? I'm not even sure where I need to start looking.

Also, the LED blinkers blink too fast now. I have the Tridon EL12 that I used with the rear LEDs on my '04 919 but I don't see where it plugs in on the '07... the plugs look totally different. I don't recall if I had to do anything special to hook it up before.
Dude, break out the volt meter or test light. Simple lights work or don't work here. You can do it.. makes us proud.

- Rev. CYCHO -

tires.... it's what's for dinner!
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post #5 of 28 Old 09-07-2008, 08:52 PM
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Mike,

As for the fast flashing I use the Custom LED ELFR-1. Plug and play. . .EZ.
And your brake light. . .you must have a loose connection, especially if both pedal and lever actuators aren't doing their job. (BTW, is the running light on?) There's no way to screw that up.

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post #6 of 28 Old 09-07-2008, 09:26 PM
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As already advised trace down the missing BL voltage with a VOM. To slow tune the resonance TS flash rate... measure the peak current difference between the bulbs and LED (series VOM-A)? This may help determine if you need a shunt or series resistor to slow it down. Better yet there are LED flashers available. Home brewing is tough, that's why clear alternatives RL/BL was a "bargain".

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post #7 of 28 Old 09-07-2008, 09:50 PM Thread Starter
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Now that it's dark outside the light seems pretty bright so I think my problem may be the opposite of what I first posted. I think the brake lights are constantly ON... I still can't figure out WHY...

MotoCyco, I don't own a volt meter or test light. It's probably time to get one or both and figure out how to use them.

Roy, I think I remember now how I hooked up that resistor on the last bike. I'll play with it tomorrow and if it doesn't work I'll try the one you listed.

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post #8 of 28 Old 09-07-2008, 11:01 PM
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>always on

It's shorted to your RL source.

To slow the TS flash rate with the time constant of a resonance circuit =1/(Resistor-value*Capacitance-value), you could add a parallel shunt resistor of ~50ohm (5W) to lower the circuit's Resistance. Without seeing a schematic or specs it's a SWAG. Good Luck!

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post #9 of 28 Old 09-07-2008, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dream View Post
>always on

It's shorted to your RL source.

To slow the TS flash rate with the time constant of a resonance circuit 1/(R*C), try adding a parallel shunt resistor of say 5W ~30ohm to lower the R and increase time constant. Good Luck.
You need to improve upon your english...your engineer accent is bleeding over terribly

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post #10 of 28 Old 09-07-2008, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by beefsalad View Post
You need to improve upon your english...your engineer accent is bleeding over terribly
Thanks for the feedback! It's that obvious...

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post #11 of 28 Old 09-08-2008, 03:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beefsalad View Post
You need to improve upon your english...your engineer accent is bleeding over terribly
Quote:
Originally Posted by dream View Post
Thanks for the feedback! It's that obvious...
OMG, that is some funny chit right there!

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post #12 of 28 Old 09-08-2008, 04:11 AM
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I knew the solutions would flow forth... I call my EE friends... Hang out and you'll always have an answer.

Continuity checkers are your friend....

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post #13 of 28 Old 09-08-2008, 05:02 AM
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If you use resistors be sure to wrap them up in electrical tape and keep them away from plastic, they get really hot.

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post #14 of 28 Old 09-08-2008, 05:03 AM
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Mike- I can solve your problem. I need to know exactly which color wires you tapped into for the new blinkers and tail light.

BTW: The Tridon RL-12(see pic) was never plug n' play. I used it before anyone offered a plug 'n play flasher. No resistors are required with a electronic flasher.


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post #15 of 28 Old 09-08-2008, 05:14 AM
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If your brake light is constantly on check the switch on the rear brake, push and pull it see if it goes off. i had to replace a faulty one last year.

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post #16 of 28 Old 09-08-2008, 09:25 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMike View Post
Mike- I can solve your problem. I need to know exactly which color wires you tapped into for the new blinkers and tail light.

BTW: The Tridon RL-12(see pic) was never plug n' play. I used it before anyone offered a plug 'n play flasher. No resistors are required with a electronic flasher.
Mike, for the RL-12, you're right it wasn't plug and play, I remember that I had to splice the wires and it looked just like yours.

The only wires I cut while installing the blinkers were the blinker wires and the license plate light wire. I unplugged each one, cut the length of wire in half, spliced the new blinkers and license plate light onto the wires and plugged each connector back in. Since I unplugged each one first, the wires were cut away from the bike and all the rest of the wires, so I wouldn't cut any other wires by mistake. The new blinkers use 2 wires, so the ends of the wires for the front running lights were covered with electrical tape.

I have only had the bike for a week now and I've never actually checked the brake light to make sure it turned on (or off). It may have been operating this way the whole time I've owned it.

Vectorau, I'll make sure the rear brake switch is moving in and out. Is there only one switch to check or is there a separate one for the front brake lever?
Other than the switch at the rear pedal, are there brake light wire connectors that I can unplug and plug back in to ensure a solid connection?

Dream, I'm completely cluless when it comes to how electronics work so I didn't understand anything that was posted. I do appreciate the advice though!

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post #17 of 28 Old 09-08-2008, 01:51 PM
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No brake lights when the front lever is pulled and the rear brake pedel is depressed, correct?

Quick test: This test will bypass the front brake switch. Unplug both front brake connectors under the master cylinder. Make sure the ignition is OFF. Jumper the two plugs with a paper clip. Turn it ignition ON. The brake lights should light. Report back.

Right now I'm looking at the 3 pin connector in the tail section as the culprit. Check it to see if it is plugged together tightly. This connector supplied 12v to the brakes lights. You can identify the wires from this diagram.

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post #18 of 28 Old 09-08-2008, 02:04 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMike View Post
No brake lights when the front lever is pulled and the rear brake pedel is depressed, correct?

Quick test: This test will bypass the front brake switch. Unplug both front brake connectors under the master cylinder. Make sure the ignition is OFF. Jumper the two plugs with a paper clip. Turn it ignition ON. The brake lights should light. Report back.

Right now I'm looking at the 3 pin connector in the tail section as the culprit. Check it to see if it is plugged together tightly. This connector supplied 12v to the brakes lights. You can identify the wires from this diagram.
Correct, I can press the rear brake pedal or pull the front brake lever and nothing changes with the rear light... I'll try the paperclip test when I get home tonight.

I just checked that diagram - if the 3 pin connector were loose would I have any lights at all? I checked the bulbs and both are lit up. I'll trace that wire down and re-check all the connectors.

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post #19 of 28 Old 09-09-2008, 09:20 AM Thread Starter
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PROBLEM SOLVED!

Quote:
Originally Posted by vectorau View Post
If your brake light is constantly on check the switch on the rear brake, push and pull it see if it goes off. i had to replace a faulty one last year.
When I was leaving work last night the first thing I did was reach down and push up on the plunger and the brake lights turned off... The maintenance guy was walking by and the only tools he had were some pliers so I gave the tab that contacts the brake plunger on the bottom of the brake lever a couple light taps with the pliers, then tried the brakes again and they worked! They were very light taps so it couldn't have been off by more than a millimeter. I checked the front and rear brakes separately and everything works perfectly now.

When I was working on the bike on Sunday I noticed that the brake lever end was pointing slightly down instead of straight out, so I grabbed a crescent wrench and bent the end up a little. In doing so, I must have twisted the entire lever just enough that the bottom tab quit making contact with the brake plunger...

I'll store this experience in my mental hard drive, as something not to do again - at least I'll know what to look for if I ever need to bend the lever again!

THANKS TO EVERYONE THAT PROVIDED INPUT TOWARDS HELPING ME SOLVE THIS PROBLEM!! THIS SITE IS THE BEST!!

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post #20 of 28 Old 09-09-2008, 10:09 AM
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Congrats! That goes into the check that *everything* works first category.
Thanks for reminding me to adjust my footswitch to be more sensitive, now I have to really stomp on it.

Any luck slowing down your TS flashrate?

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post #21 of 28 Old 09-09-2008, 10:30 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dream View Post
Any luck slowing down your TS flashrate?
I didn't have time to look at the flasher last night - I got home, changed clothes, and left again. Seeing MisterMike's photo reminded me how I had it set up before, and I'll have a couple hours to work on it tonight, so it should be good to go for the ride to work tomorrow.

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post #22 of 28 Old 09-09-2008, 10:40 AM
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Rear brake problem fixed. What about the front brake lever?

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post #23 of 28 Old 09-09-2008, 11:59 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMike View Post
Rear brake problem fixed. What about the front brake lever?
The problem was that the rear brake lever was bent just enough that it wasn't making full contact with the plunger switch to turn the brake light OFF, it was leaving the brake light on constantly. Now that the lever makes full contact and pushes the plunger in further, everything works normal again. I've checked the front and rear brakes separately a couple times now and all is good with the world again!

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post #24 of 28 Old 09-09-2008, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdtoney View Post
When I was leaving work last night the first thing I did was reach down and push up on the plunger and the brake lights turned off...
Mike don't feel bad. . .it happened to me when I put on the the aftermarket rearsets. I thought the brake light wasn't working. . .but it was already on, constantly. The actuator switch plunger had to be readjusted at the brake pedal. Found out by process of elimination. ---Now let's move on to the exciting mods!!!

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post #25 of 28 Old 09-09-2008, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdtoney View Post
The headlight and taillight work, the license plate light and all the blinkers work, but the brake light no longer works.
You lead me down the wrong path Mike.

My bad for not reading your later post.

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post #26 of 28 Old 09-09-2008, 12:47 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9nineteen View Post
Mike don't feel bad. . .it happened to me when I put on the the aftermarket rearsets. I thought the brake light wasn't working. . .but it was already on, constantly. The actuator switch plunger had to be readjusted at the brake pedal. Found out by process of elimination. ---Now let's move on to the exciting mods!!!
Believe me Roy, I'M READY to move on to the fun and exciting mods! I ordered some cosmetic/comfort items yesterday: Renthal ultra-low bars, Renthal superbike grips, Renthal 44t rear sprocket, Vortex 16t front sprocket, RK Gold 530 chain, heavy duty chain tool, a few replacement parts from Kyle Racing to get my damaged Sato rearsets functional again, LOS tie-bar, Rizoma Radial naked mirrors, as well as an F4i rear axle off ebay. My credit card is screaming for mercy...

Over the weekend I dug out my boxes of old parts from the wrecked 919 and installed the Yoshimura CF slip ons, black billet gas cap, LED blinkers & license plate light, Sargent seat, and rear wave rotor. I also painted the custom side panels, FI covers, instrument cover, and headlight brackets... BLACK.

I had the front wave rotors installed and realized that one of them is slightly bent and rubbing, so they came back off. I need to figure out if it's salvageable.

Besides the parts on order, the "to do" list for this weekend also includes more old parts from the wrecked 919: the PC III, speedo healer, S/S brake lines and Progressive shock. I also need to get gaskets and install the Circuit 1 covers.
My biggest frustration is that the main part of the project is on hold because I STILL can't find an RC51 front wheel. I've had the RC51 forks and extra 919 stem for quite a while, but I seem to be on permanent hold. I'm also searching for a 929/954 lower triple and a RC51 top triple. No luck so far anywhere I look... and I cringe at the though of having to buy those parts new from the dealer...

We'll see how much I can actually get accomplished this weekend. I'll post some photos of what I get done.

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post #27 of 28 Old 09-09-2008, 12:49 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMike View Post
You lead me down the wrong path Mike.
Sorry Mike, it wasn't until it got dark outside that I realized the brake light was actually on constantly instead of not working...

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post #28 of 28 Old 09-09-2008, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
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I'll post some photos of what I get done.
I can't wait to see in progress pics. . .

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