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post #1 of 73 Old 01-21-2010, 11:45 PM Thread Starter
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bad engine noises

2002 919 with 20,500 on the clock. quick rundown, was getting a rattling over the lower left side a couple days ago, figured it was the chain getting loose again after the chain clean during the weekend. so i adjusted it, checked everything (oil coolant, lubed chain, etc) and was fine and dandy, but that rattling was still there! noticed it in first gear low speeds wit the clutch in or in neutral.

yesterday i lubed the chain again and checked slack, was fine, rattling went away, then it came back again today in the same cases. couldnt figure it out but whatever, went to a show. afterwards a friend wanted to hear the bike so i fired it up and the rattling sound was back, but 10x worse! shut it off, looked around, and i had no oil in the spot window (WTF?!). i wonder if that means i rode on the freeway for 45 mins without oil?! well f*ck me...

went and got oil, poured it in (took quite a bit too!), fired it up and it sounded so much better, but that rattling was still there in neutal on the sidestand or in first gear with the clutch pulled in. checked around and i had no coolant in the coolant overflow tank... wtf?!

i'm so stumped and stressed. i looked at the oil and its not milky, but it doesnt look right either. i cant figure it out. its almost as if something came loose inside the left side casing, is rattling around and getting kicked around by the flywheel or something. i'm at a complete loss.

what do i do?!

edit: forgot to add, i couldnt find any signs of leakage: oil or coolant wise. oil light NEVER came on (another WTF?!), i'm scared i may have toasted the engine.

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post #2 of 73 Old 01-22-2010, 03:54 AM
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you said it "took quite a bit" of oil. about how much?
1/2 a qt? 1,2,3 qts?

a couple of ???

did you check the inside of the exhaust? poke your finger in there(engine cold and not running.lol)

check the overflow vents(hoses under the bike at rear of engine)see if they look like they were dripping. while your down there look at the underside of the swingarm to see if it's wet.

the reason is you said you can't find a leak but the oil and coolant HAD to go somewhere. if your moving it'll blow backwards.
hopfully someone has an idea about the rattle

good luck

'04 Honda 919, Candy apple red met., 17/44t sprockets,f-16 windscreen,delkevic ss exhaust,Tharbars,givi engine bars, billet alum. led turns w/ running lights,red adj.levers from china, bar end mirrors,grip heaters,adj. foot peg brackets,adj. bar risers,dunlop Q2(that are better than your pp 2ct,lol)bike wired for gps and phone charger
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post #3 of 73 Old 01-22-2010, 04:17 AM
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This is the repo bike you bought, right?

What maintenance have you done to the bike since buying it?

Could be as simple as you have the chain mis-adjusted - I've seen people only adjust one side, for example, and not the other, or just have it "not right" and the chain, especially a worn one, will sound really bad.

Check the chain again, are any o-rings missing?

Low on oil, coolant - you need to be checking those weekly, at a minimum, each fill up.

Update us on the maintenance and overall condition of the chain - I believe you said it only make the noise when moving, right?

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post #4 of 73 Old 01-22-2010, 04:37 AM
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ujm,
he said it rattles in neutral on the side stand too.any ideas where the oil and water went? i thought they don't mix,so i guess they went their seperate ways.

'04 Honda 919, Candy apple red met., 17/44t sprockets,f-16 windscreen,delkevic ss exhaust,Tharbars,givi engine bars, billet alum. led turns w/ running lights,red adj.levers from china, bar end mirrors,grip heaters,adj. foot peg brackets,adj. bar risers,dunlop Q2(that are better than your pp 2ct,lol)bike wired for gps and phone charger
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post #5 of 73 Old 01-22-2010, 05:23 AM
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How low was the coolant? A little loss through evaporation is normal - may be totally unrelated to other problem.

So, if I have the facts right: oil was very low, after filling crankcase, noise went away.

My thoughts. With 20K on it, it may use some oil and that might not be a problem you need to do anything about. If any damage was done because of running low on oil, it's already done and there is no point in dwelling on it. If it seems to run O.K. now with oil, I say change the oil (what was in there was probably cooked), top off the coolant with distilled water unless it's really low. Ride it and keep an eye on coolant and oil. You may just need to add some oil now and then - no bg deal.

If you start noticing oil getting milky, or white foam, you probably need a head gasket. If coolant is going away quick enough to notice, you have a leak or, again, need a head gasket.

Let us know how it goes. Good luck.

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post #6 of 73 Old 01-22-2010, 06:00 AM
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Did you refill the coolant? You didn't post that you did. If not, so that pronto.

"Towards the end of the vid, it looks like she may have had a bafflectomy." - MarylandMike
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post #7 of 73 Old 01-22-2010, 01:11 PM Thread Starter
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an update for y'all.

oil looked good this morning. started the bike up and the rattle was gone... until it warmed up (after around 3 minutes of riding), gah!

rattle is still there, and it sounds horrible at times. bike still pulls hard and i dont notice any power loss.

i would say i added around 2 qts. i'm still stumped. i'm convinced its the engine, not the chain. i can feel the rattle on the lower left side. i wonder if something came apart inside the stator cover. is this even possible?

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post #8 of 73 Old 01-22-2010, 01:12 PM Thread Starter
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forgot to add, i bought this bike from a dealership and they said no maintence was needed as it checked out in good condition. i simply maintained the chain, kept an eye on all the fluid levels, and rode it.

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post #9 of 73 Old 01-22-2010, 01:26 PM
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Is it a consistent clicking/knocking sound or an erratic chatter? My injectors tick loudly when hot. Not loud enough to hear unless stopped.

Maybe a video if you can. There isn't much behind the stator cover. I had mine off, and if I remember correctly, all that was behind was the stator, a pin, and two little gears for the starter.

If you have an automotive stethoscope, I'd start poking around to see if you can pinpoint where the noise is coming from.

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post #10 of 73 Old 01-22-2010, 02:35 PM
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Stop wondering and take cover off. Something could've came off stator, shaft for reduction gears for starter could've worn out hole in case or cover, starter clutch could've came apart..etc, etc. Personally, I wouldn't ride it until source of noise was found. Did you check bottom of cover for oil? Noises on left side of engine are rare.

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post #11 of 73 Old 01-22-2010, 03:27 PM
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Yes, remove the cover - if I remember right, you replaced it once.

Check it out, let us know, and still, check the chain to make sure all the orings are there, just for fun.

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post #12 of 73 Old 01-22-2010, 07:08 PM Thread Starter
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rattling got worse so i called a tow and had it taken into the dealership. they have a heated shop to work in and it'll only cost me $50.00 to take a crack at it. i have no garage, and the sky opened up earlier this morning with rain expected all weekend. $50.00 is cheap considering the situation lol.

they think its the cam chain tensioner. its coming from around the back side of the cyl wall right above the starter.

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post #13 of 73 Old 01-22-2010, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
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rattling got worse so i called a tow and had it taken into the dealership. they have a heated shop to work in and it'll only cost me $50.00 to take a crack at it. i have no garage, and the sky opened up earlier this morning with rain expected all weekend. $50.00 is cheap considering the situation lol.

they think its the cam chain tensioner. its coming from around the back side of the cyl wall right above the starter.

A very noisy failure indeed. I know the rattle and it is unnerving. If coolant and oil were missing in great quantities, expect the worse and be done with it. If it comes down to a single component failure that does not require case cracking,the clouds have a silver lining.

的 said I never had much use for one.
Never said I didn't know how to use it."
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post #14 of 73 Old 01-23-2010, 04:49 AM
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Cam chain tensioner failure it not unheard of, many replace it with one from APE.

Generally the noise comes from the right side though, might be feeding through the block, looking forward to hearing what the dealership finds.

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post #15 of 73 Old 01-23-2010, 07:31 AM
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I noticed you bought a left side (alt.) cover:
https://wristtwisters.com/want-buy/22...ver-919-a.html
Did you install it?

Just curious.

Rob

If it has already been done, it is safe to assume it is possible to do it.
On the other hand, if it has not been done never assume it is impossible to do it.
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post #16 of 73 Old 01-23-2010, 10:35 AM Thread Starter
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hey rob. havent installed the cover yet : /

so what's to be expected from a cam chain tensioner failure?

and any more info on the ape tensioner?

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post #17 of 73 Old 01-23-2010, 11:57 AM
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Every motor I build to race has an APE manual tensioner. They run in the 50 dollar range and are bulletproof. Set it and forget it. Remove stock tensioner, remove valvecover, remove top chain guide. Install APE tensioner, tighten til you got 3/8" slack in chain, rotate engine couple of revolutions, check tension again. If correct, tighten locknut, install guide, cover, and you're done. Never had one back out on me. I had one on motor I had for sale for 800 bucks.
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post #18 of 73 Old 01-24-2010, 12:11 AM Thread Starter
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update:

spoke with the dealership today. said they could not reproduce the sound all day. one of the techs heard the sound so she knew it was there, but the other techs are mystified. they said they had the bike run for a total of about an hour today, plus one of the mechanics rode about 4-5 miles and still couldnt get it to reproduce the sound. then they went ahead and drained the oil, found no debris or metal shavings, took off the left side cover and found nothing out of order, or anything stuck to the stator magnets. they're all pretty puzzled by it.

i'm just as stumped as they are, so the bike will be staying at the dealership come tues so they can take another crack at it. i'm out of ideas and never heard of such a thing. lol, any suggestions?

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post #19 of 73 Old 01-24-2010, 12:26 AM
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post #20 of 73 Old 01-24-2010, 03:22 AM
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Is the coolant reserve full? You stated previously it was empty. Water pump is on the left side although I don't know if it would rattle upon cavitation.

Cam chain tensioners can be tough to catch. My superhawk had one going out that sounded like pistion slap on startup. It would only last a few seconds and then go away.

"Towards the end of the vid, it looks like she may have had a bafflectomy." - MarylandMike
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post #21 of 73 Old 01-24-2010, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
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Is the coolant reserve full? You stated previously it was empty. Water pump is on the left side although I don't know if it would rattle upon cavitation.

Cam chain tensioners can be tough to catch. My superhawk had one going out that sounded like pistion slap on startup. It would only last a few seconds and then go away.
Superhawk tensioner fail here, too.

的 said I never had much use for one.
Never said I didn't know how to use it."
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post #22 of 73 Old 01-24-2010, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
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Superhawk tensioner fail here, too.
Yeah, known problem. Mine was hard to catch doing it. Read that it was a problem so I went ahead and changed both. Glad I did. I've seen some nasty engine pictures when they go from failing to failed.

"Towards the end of the vid, it looks like she may have had a bafflectomy." - MarylandMike
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post #23 of 73 Old 01-24-2010, 08:50 AM
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My cct was replaced at 16k miles with a factory one at 43k now still in there and running good but was thinking of getting the agp manual tensioner.

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post #24 of 73 Old 01-27-2010, 09:49 PM Thread Starter
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update:

got the bike back from the dealership today. damnit, i forgot why i usually DONT go to dealerships. i got raped...!

tech couldnt find anything even after popping the valve cover off as well as checking the cam chain tensioner. since the bike was in the shop and there was no service record of any kind, they went ahead and adjusted the valves while they were in there. grand total of $221... they dropped the price to $150 "because" they couldnt find anything wrong and i just bought the bike from them.

they were right though, the sound simply isnt there anymore. completely gone. i took an extra long ride home and it hasnt come back. i'm still pretty paranoid and am not convinced that everything is a-ok... but yet idk what to do at this point except ride it and see if it does come back.

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post #25 of 73 Old 01-28-2010, 04:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvster View Post
update:

got the bike back from the dealership today. damnit, i forgot why i usually DONT go to dealerships. i got raped...!

tech couldnt find anything even after popping the valve cover off as well as checking the cam chain tensioner. since the bike was in the shop and there was no service record of any kind, they went ahead and adjusted the valves while they were in there. grand total of $221... they dropped the price to $150 "because" they couldnt find anything wrong and i just bought the bike from them.

they were right though, the sound simply isnt there anymore. completely gone. i took an extra long ride home and it hasnt come back. i'm still pretty paranoid and am not convinced that everything is a-ok... but yet idk what to do at this point except ride it and see if it does come back.
Did the dealer call you for approval of any charges?

You should not of expected them to do much for free, that is a given.

You bought the bike from them, that is not a coupon for free anything, unless you got it in writing, and generally, used motorcycles come with no warrant, 30 days max, how long have you had yours? I know you put about 3000 miles on it, right?

Consider this a lesson for future reference -

#1- NEVER buy a repo anything in the future if you plan on keeping it, just because. If the person could not make the payment there is a really good chance they did not maintain it or treat it very nicely.

#2 - Understand any warranty and get it in writing

#3 - Do not expect anything from a dealer for free UNLESS it is discussed up front and you ask for a copy of the service ticket with "no charge" written on it prior to dropping it off -

#4 - If you signed a service ticket when you dropped the bike off, you probably authorized them to do whatever they wanted and to charge you for it - unless you wrote something otherwise on the ticket. Read the fine print everyone - know what you are signing.

And while I seriously doubt they did a valve adjustment (probably checked them, and they were within spec), I am glad to hear the noise is gone, and $150.00 for a dealer to troubleshoot a motorcycle is not bad - if you can not do the work yourself, expect to pay someone to do it, and it's not cheap.

Good luck to you

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post #26 of 73 Old 01-28-2010, 05:44 PM Thread Starter
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ur correct there ujm. i learned the hard way once already with my vlx a few years ago. idk why i had a brain fart this time. panic i guess, and not wanting to be out in the rain trying to figure out what the hell was going on, as well as hold the dealership accountable.

i also do forget that i'm in a big city, my small country town ways are typically unheard of. so is good customer service lol.

key point on the repo issue. bike looked good, had aftermarket stuff on it, i figured it was a compromise. i just hope it isnt an expensive one! we'll see.

meanwhile, thanks to everyone for your help! i'll be keeping a close eye on it for a while.

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post #27 of 73 Old 01-28-2010, 07:01 PM
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Pvster, Thats rough that they didn't find anything wrong...I bet that is shaking your confidence, it would mine. I'd go ahead and keep riding it, and just keep an ear cocked for it in case the noise comes back! I'm not sure what other option there is, other than throwing money at the problem...if there really is one... Dang.

Good luck, man!

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post #28 of 73 Old 01-28-2010, 11:29 PM
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$150 sounds good value for that check over. Cheap security and it's got fresh oil now too.

Rattle.

As the engine sounds good check the following:

Gear shifter - some have worked loose and fallen off - yours may be loose and rattling around on the bolt shaft .....

Mid header mount - again there are cases of this mount breaking - yours may have and be vibrating and rattling at certain rpms.

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post #29 of 73 Old 01-29-2010, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
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$150 sounds good value for that check over. Cheap security and it's got fresh oil now too.

Rattle.

As the engine sounds good check the following:

Gear shifter - some have worked loose and fallen off - yours may be loose and rattling around on the bolt shaft .....

Mid header mount - again there are cases of this mount breaking - yours may have and be vibrating and rattling at certain rpms.

I'm in total agreement with Allan here. Charging you $150 for what they did was like giving it away. I'm serious.
Something, somewhere made that noise. Now you have a record of what they did in an effort to find it.
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post #30 of 73 Old 02-07-2010, 04:34 PM Thread Starter
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going on week 2, noise/rattle has not returned as of yet. but the vibration is off. i cant quite explain it other than me being deaf and uber sensitive to vibrations or bring paranoid, i cant decide, but something is off that's for sure.

2 things weird is going on, the vibration is happening down low almost between my pegs, is unaffected by engine speed (constant), and when i pull the clutch in, i feel something "winding down" is the best way to explain it. the other weird thing is my clutch cable keeps becoming loose. i've tightened it, made sure it was locktighted (the locknut) and it STILL comes loose after a week.

any leads or guesses? clutch basket going out? i'm at a loss, and cant afford to have another $150.00 thrown at it with no results.

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post #31 of 73 Old 02-07-2010, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
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going on week 2, noise/rattle has not returned as of yet. but the vibration is off. i cant quite explain it other than me being deaf and uber sensitive to vibrations or bring paranoid, i cant decide, but something is off that's for sure.

2 things weird is going on, the vibration is happening down low almost between my pegs, is unaffected by engine speed (constant), and when i pull the clutch in, i feel something "winding down" is the best way to explain it. the other weird thing is my clutch cable keeps becoming loose. i've tightened it, made sure it was locktighted (the locknut) and it STILL comes loose after a week.

any leads or guesses? clutch basket going out? i'm at a loss, and cant afford to have another $150.00 thrown at it with no results.
Sell it this spring and buy another with known service history.

Preferably the 2002 version, they are the fastest.


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post #32 of 73 Old 02-07-2010, 06:53 PM
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any leads or guesses? clutch basket going out? i'm at a loss, and cant afford to have another $150.00 thrown at it with no results.
I gotta say that if you were dissapointed that you had no results the flip side might have been a lunched motor.
It's time you ride if the weather permits and give yourself a break and not worry.

I had/have this issue with my ZX10R. It conks out every rare now and then after full rpm runs thru the gears (lower 3 or 4 mind you). I have never found out why. I have 43,000 miles on the bike now. I'm not saying your bike is 100% OK.....worrying about the clutch adjustment nut is unnecessary. Just get a nylon cable tie and cinch it up to back the nut.

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post #33 of 73 Old 02-07-2010, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
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Sell it this spring and buy another with known service history.

Preferably the 2002 version, they are the fastest.

I don't know if I could do that with a clear mind. Selling something that you know has some sort of issue.

Look in your service manual and remove and inspect the clutch. If you don't have a manual, get one. I picked one up on eBay for $25 ish.

919 service manual, eBay Motors, Electronics. Great deals on eBay!

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post #34 of 73 Old 02-07-2010, 07:24 PM
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You mention the clutch cable coming loose and using locktite on it. Have you checked the other end? Clutch cable is adjustable at both ends. Could lower end be loose causing vibration and loosening?

I always look for the quick easy fix first.

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post #35 of 73 Old 02-08-2010, 08:22 AM Thread Starter
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yeah, i messed with both ends of the clutch cable, it's rather annoying. i'm starting to get really annoyed with the chain adjuster too. may just take a drill bit to it so i can safety wire it...

UJM, i dont have the luxuary of cutting my loss, selling the bike, and buying a new one. first off, its my main mode of transportation. secondly, i'm a poor ass college student, i have no funds. so if you want to suggest getting a new bike, throw some money my way ; P

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post #36 of 73 Old 02-08-2010, 09:29 AM
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Sounds like you might be young and a bit impatient . From being one of those types 36 years ago, I just got to reitterate "Be Patient and worry not so much"
little bro.

的 said I never had much use for one.
Never said I didn't know how to use it."
Mathew Quigley
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post #37 of 73 Old 02-08-2010, 10:23 AM
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How about we work on this clutch loosening problem? Should be fixable.

When you say it comes loose, what do you mean exactly? Are you getting more free play at the lever with the adjustments staying put? Or is one or both of the adjusters coming loose?

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post #38 of 73 Old 02-08-2010, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvster View Post

UJM, i dont have the luxuary of cutting my loss, selling the bike, and buying a new one. first off, its my main mode of transportation. secondly, i'm a poor ass college student, i have no funds. so if you want to suggest getting a new bike, throw some money my way ; P
Sell the POS 919 you have now and buy another with maintenance records, done right, you could even come out ahead.

Sounds like you do not have the time to do that though, so good luck.

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post #39 of 73 Old 02-08-2010, 05:36 PM
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pvster: Sometimes things just come together. I was never aware of Rob's earlier thread, but now I am and knowing your sitch, well...........


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的 said I never had much use for one.
Never said I didn't know how to use it."
Mathew Quigley
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post #40 of 73 Old 02-08-2010, 09:00 PM Thread Starter
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caton, correct, the lever gains freeplay with both ends of the clutch adjustments staying tight.

bigdaa, i wish i could say i needn't worry. sadly thats not the case. if its a tranny issue and i'm gunnin it when it blows up, locks the rear end, my life is on the line. i take enough risk as it is dealing with idiots on a daily basis trying to run me over, any safety issue i overlook myself, is just asking for trouble.

i'm leaning towards a clutch/tranny issue at this point. i've noticed that every once in a while when i go to shift down, the shifter just moves down but it doesnt drop down to a lower gear. tends to happen between 3-4th from my observation.

got a suggestion from a really good motorcycle buddy to check out a trustworthy dealership (is there such a thing?! lol). i'm gonna try and make the time to go there cuz its in bfe, give a mech the key, and tell em to ride it until they notice something weird or off.

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