Back to the brakes!! - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 44 Old 09-10-2006, 07:31 PM Thread Starter
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Back to the brakes!!

My bike(06' 919) now has 1000miles on it, the dealer replaced the front brake pads on it at like 700miles because of the brake squeel/howl that occured during normal braking. Since then the brakes have been noiser then ever, alot of ppl say this is normal but it is driving me insane to roll up with a nice, sweet looking 2006 919 and Squeeeeellllll to a stop. For those of you who say it is normal was your squeel really, really loud sometimes? Also, is there something I can do(say, aftermarket pads) to stop it or at least lessen it besides wearing my back brakes out extra fast?

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post #2 of 44 Old 09-10-2006, 09:34 PM
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Can't hurt to try some after market pads.
Just be sure not to go el-cheapo on 'em.

Can't recommend anything particular off the top of my head as I'm told the OEM pads are as good as you'll get bang for buck-wise.

I never had any squeal at all from my brakes right from new, so I'm a little surprised to hear so many folk have this issue with a new bike despite the fact that it supposedly clears up... eventually...

Can't say I blame you for being ticked off about it.
I think if it were me, I'd be badgering the dealer for something that didn't squeal if it's that bad.
And threaten them that I'll tell everyone who remarks on the squeal, just who it is that thinks it's ok to sell me a new bike with brakes that squeal like a stuck pig.

But that's me.. I'm an antagonistic bast..d if I don't get things my way!

post #3 of 44 Old 09-11-2006, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjason View Post
My bike(06' 919) now has 1000miles on it, the dealer replaced the front brake pads on it at like 700miles because of the brake squeel/howl that occured during normal braking. Since then the brakes have been noiser then ever, alot of ppl say this is normal but it is driving me insane to roll up with a nice, sweet looking 2006 919 and Squeeeeellllll to a stop. For those of you who say it is normal was your squeel really, really loud sometimes? Also, is there something I can do(say, aftermarket pads) to stop it or at least lessen it besides wearing my back brakes out extra fast?
I got 20,100 miles on the stock front pads. They would grind when they were new, they squealed the rest of the time. I hated it. Seemed the warmer it was outside. the quicker they would start squealing'. I lived with it until they wore out. I should add, they stopped the bike great the entire time. Just replaced the OEM pads with EBS HH or Double H pads. I am sure they will wear quicker but, they felt great out on the first ride. I expected a break in period where they might not grab as good until they were seated all the way with the rotors.. but damn! They grab great. Best part... not a grind or a squeak or a chirp. Nothing! (yet, fingers crossed) Bike stops fantastic and I like the new feel in the lever. It's like they aren't mushy... but there is a greater range of braking. Like higher resolution. The stock pads felt harder.. it's hard to explain. Anyway, I'm sure the trade off will be quicker wearing. Guess we'll see?

As usual, your mileage may vary!

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post #4 of 44 Old 09-11-2006, 04:02 AM
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Glad to see this post and know it's not just my bike! Under light braking, there is no noise. I hear it most when stopping as my braking gets progressively harder up to the end of the stop. I'm up near 1500 miles and it's not as bad as it was 750 miles ago so I'm hoping it keeps getting better.

Haven't called the dealer yet. The noise could be coming from dirt so I'm going to clean up the pads and rotors with some brake cleaner and see if that helps.

Any other ideas?

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post #5 of 44 Old 09-11-2006, 10:27 AM
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+1 for the EBC HH pads.

I used them on my EX500 and were a lot better than stock. They were quiet as well.

If you don't want those, just look for a quality organic pad. They should be quiet. And next time, change the pads yourself to save some money. It's easy as pie really. I can do it and I'm a dumbass :-)

That is, unless it was under warrenty.

EBC HH pads are about $32 per pair.

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post #6 of 44 Old 09-11-2006, 12:19 PM
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I can do it and I'm a dumbass :-)
I applaud your honesty sir. lol.

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post #7 of 44 Old 09-11-2006, 01:12 PM
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... If you don't want those, just look for a quality organic pad. They should be quiet.
I ran the EBS organics on the rear... they felt great. Nice feedback and it was nice having brakes with more feel on the rear. You could use them harder with more confidence because they would not just lock up like with harder material pads.. the downside.. they lasted about 3000 miles
. melted away like butter. I have since switched to EBS HH pads out back as well. Nice enough feel.. better than OEM pads not as good as organics. They take a while to seat against the rotor too... the rears anyway. My front HH felt great fast.

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post #8 of 44 Old 09-11-2006, 01:58 PM
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I have a little over 4k on my 06 919 and I STILL get the squeal under light braking. Heavy braking is silent. It is VERY aggravating at lights and stop signs...

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post #9 of 44 Old 09-11-2006, 05:31 PM
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brakes squealing

i think the squealing is probably an installation issue. i don't think honda pads are the cause, since many hondas can stop without squealing

i still have my original oem pads which haven't been a problem in the past, but i just got new tires installed and when i got my bike back the front brakes were squealing (like yours - only under light pressure, heavy braking is fine). they didn't service the brakes, but i think the shop got some grease or other crap on the rotors, which messed up the surface of the pad.

based on this theory, i warmed up the brakes and then did a few very hard stops to get down to fresh brake material and it did help.

...j

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post #10 of 44 Old 09-11-2006, 05:43 PM Thread Starter
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Ok, went back to the dealer today, they don't have a clue whats happening. The mechanic did what he called "heat treated" the rotors, which was, get them real hot then spray some water on them , this, to me, was completely retarded. When I left the dealer the noise was worse than ever, I told them I'd give the new brakes 200 more miles and if the noise didn't stop I would be back and they would put some different "aftermarket" pads on. But this noise is terrible to the point I am going to call out the "lemon law" if they can't fix it, I will not drive a new bike that make this kind of noise under normal driving .

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post #11 of 44 Old 09-11-2006, 06:10 PM
 
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I've got a little over 3k miles on mine and it has never squealed at all....
Just lucky I guess?

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post #12 of 44 Old 09-11-2006, 06:51 PM
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Umm...am I the only one who thinks the "heat treatment" is a nice way of warping the rotor? Metal likes to change shape and size when you rapidly cool it after bringing it to extremely high temperatures.

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post #13 of 44 Old 09-11-2006, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bock919 View Post
Umm...am I the only one who thinks the "heat treatment" is a nice way of warping the rotor? Metal likes to change shape and size when you rapidly cool it after bringing it to extremely high temperatures.
Agreed. And I have to ask, how did this guy warm them up?

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post #14 of 44 Old 09-11-2006, 08:57 PM Thread Starter
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Agreed. And I have to ask, how did this guy warm them up?
I'm guessing he ran the crap out of my bike and was really hard on the brakes, but hey the bike is under warranty so I don't know how else to deal with this situation. I think I'll give them one more chance and then I'll try to contact a honda rep.

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post #15 of 44 Old 09-11-2006, 08:59 PM
 
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Quote:
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Umm...am I the only one who thinks the "heat treatment" is a nice way of warping the rotor? Metal likes to change shape and size when you rapidly cool it after bringing it to extremely high temperatures.
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Originally Posted by HondaJim View Post
Agreed. And I have to ask, how did this guy warm them up?
I was wondering the same thing.



Hey mrjason, have you tried brake cleaner? Maybe it will quiet them.
Another thing you can try is to go out to an empty road, or parking lot. Then just start practicing your braking technique. Since your front brakes are the problem just use those. Just accelerate and brake...accelerate and brake and repeat. Start by braking lightly then make your stops progressively harder and harder. Not sure if this will work but maybe by heating up the pads and such and putting a bit of wear on them it will reduce the squeel.

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post #16 of 44 Old 09-11-2006, 09:08 PM Thread Starter
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I was wondering the same thing.



Hey mrjason, have you tried brake cleaner? Maybe it will quiet them.
Another thing you can try is to go out to an empty road, or parking lot. Then just start practicing your braking technique. Since your front brakes are the problem just use those. Just accelerate and brake...accelerate and brake and repeat. Start by braking lightly then make your stops progressively harder and harder. Not sure if this will work but maybe by heating up the pads and such and putting a bit of wear on them it will reduce the squeel.
I have been trying this, it seems as though they get louder the more I do it. This weekend I'm going to try a little more and maybe I can get the noise to subside a bit.

The thing is that the brakes are quitte for the first part of the ride and the warmer they get the worse the noise gets. I think its an issue that honda should recall since apperently it happens to most of the 919's. I think the problem is that theres not enough people complaining about it. Its like the pad just doesn't agree with the rotor, I think honda needs to choose a new pad for the bike.

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post #17 of 44 Old 09-11-2006, 10:33 PM
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I have a little over 4100 miles on mine. Haven't heard them yet. The only thing that is done with the brakes are SS brake lines on the front. Hope your situation silences in the very near future. Good luck.

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post #18 of 44 Old 09-12-2006, 05:19 AM
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How about you just stop using your brakes. When you want to stop just put your feet down Fred Flintsone style.

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post #19 of 44 Old 09-12-2006, 05:41 AM
 
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Give this a try...
Take the pads off & wire brush 'em, making sure the groove is cleaned out. Then when reinstalling use a little bit of brake lube on the backings & stops.
Maybe this will stop and vibrations, hence noise...

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post #20 of 44 Old 09-12-2006, 04:47 PM
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+1 on the brake lube on the backs of the pad where it contacts other metal. Only need a little dab and make sure you use high temperature grease. This trick usually works with automotive brake pads. You should also clean the rotors with brake cleaner and keep things as clean as possible when you reassemble. Don't get any grease on the pads or the rotor. Good luck...

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post #21 of 44 Old 09-12-2006, 04:57 PM
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yeah i have "the squeak" on my 06 hornet had it to dealer at first service they removed pads and cleaned etc but noise still there.Only hear it at walking pace so i just put up with it (allthough it does piss me off!)
I am pleased to hear it eventually goes away

post #22 of 44 Old 09-12-2006, 06:59 PM
 
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LOOK !!!!!!!! I had the same thing on mine in the shop 6 times. My bike is an 04 they went as far as taking the front end off a 06 919 still did the same thing, dont know how much truth there is to this but they finally told me that honda found the problem in the rotors and they put on as they call it the new ones.They still make a little sound every know and then but nothing like befor.
Nothing else will fix it dont waste your money on stop squeal or cleaners!!!

send me a mess i will be happy to give you my# for all the details..

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post #23 of 44 Old 09-13-2006, 01:30 PM
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EBC HH pads are probably the crappiest pads on the market currently... They were a decent pad 10 years ago when no one else had an HH race pad avaiable, but they are very dated now & there are way more better choices on the market.

If you actually ride hard enough to need the HH compound then the backing plates warp & cause parasitic drag on the rotors...

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post #24 of 44 Old 09-13-2006, 01:31 PM
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Oh & check your rotors to make sure they are actually traveling in the right direction because that can cause brake squeal (the whole wheel can even be turned around in some cases...)

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post #25 of 44 Old 09-13-2006, 02:07 PM
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Oh & check your rotors to make sure they are actually traveling in the right direction because that can cause brake squeal (the whole wheel can even be turned around in some cases...)
I'm taking my pads off tonight to clean everything up and apply some Sil-Glyde brake lubricant to the back of the pads. Will post up with results.

Lord Duckhunter - if the squeal was caused by rotors turning in the wrong direction, wouldn't the noise be constant? I'll check it out just to make sure though. Thanks for the suggestion.

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post #26 of 44 Old 09-13-2006, 02:09 PM
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It can depend on the heat & pressure applied to the pad & rotor at the time. Lots of strange things can happen with brakes & I trust me everytime I think I have seen it all something new comes along & makes me say "WTF???"

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post #27 of 44 Old 09-13-2006, 06:55 PM Thread Starter
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Everything is on the bike correctly. But the noise sounds more like a harmonic humming noise than a brake squeal.

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post #28 of 44 Old 09-13-2006, 08:18 PM
 
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My front brakes kind of "grind" when I am using them, it's not very loud though. This grind is particularily noticable if you are rolling downhill (like on a driveway) with the engine off and use the front brakes. Is this what you mean?

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post #29 of 44 Old 09-13-2006, 08:24 PM Thread Starter
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My front brakes kind of "grind" when I am using them, it's not very loud though. This grind is particularily noticable if you are rolling downhill (like on a driveway) with the engine off and use the front brakes. Is this what you mean?


No, it's not a grind at all, it's like a harmonic hum or metal vibration, and it's really Loud.
Of course the honda dealer says it's nothing to worry about but it drives me nuts. I took the bike back in today and they kept the damn thing allday, then when I went to pick it up they told me they didn't do anything to the bike, the honda factory refused to pay any warranty repairs on the bike untill a rep could look at it, which they said wouldn't be till November .

I have always been a honda fan but this is rediculus and I'm going to try and make an appiontment to see a lawyer within the next week if something doesn't happen.

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post #30 of 44 Old 09-13-2006, 09:52 PM
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So it's gone from a "squeel/howl" to "a harmonic hum or metal vibration" in a few short posts!

I guess it's one of those things that you need to hear for yourself then!...

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... I'm going to try and make an appiontment to see a lawyer within the next week if something doesn't happen.
Since it's going to cost you money to see a lawyer, why not try taking it to an independant third party like, say, another different dealer or better yet non-affiliated bike workshop such as a performance outfit and get them to check it out and make any notes of what they find is wrong.. if anything is..
An experienceed ear might just say "dude, that's what they all sound like when you do blah blah blah" or maybe "Oh that's the thingamabob that needs voodoo-fication done to it"

I think you get what I'm driving at.

Hope you get it sorted one way or the other.

post #31 of 44 Old 09-13-2006, 11:12 PM Thread Starter
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So it's gone from a "squeel/howl" to "a harmonic hum or metal vibration" in a few short posts!

I guess it's one of those things that you need to hear for yourself then!...



Since it's going to cost you money to see a lawyer, why not try taking it to an independant third party like, say, another different dealer or better yet non-affiliated bike workshop such as a performance outfit and get them to check it out and make any notes of what they find is wrong.. if anything is..
An experienceed ear might just say "dude, that's what they all sound like when you do blah blah blah" or maybe "Oh that's the thingamabob that needs voodoo-fication done to it"

I think you get what I'm driving at.

Hope you get it sorted one way or the other.
The more I hear the noise the better I get at describing it, also is there a loud howling/moaning noise from your brakes that's supposed to over whelm the sound of an 18wheeler, your helmet, and the headphones you have on? If the answer is yes then my brakes are completely normal .

But I see what your getting at, I was thinking about going to a different dealer but figured it was going to be a big waste of time. I wouldn't think they would want to touch it.

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post #32 of 44 Old 09-14-2006, 10:16 AM
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The first OEM pad replacement i did on mine resulted in this squeel you guys are describing. The problem with mine was i didn't follow the procedure for putting the front wheel back on. So the brakes weren't properly seated on the disc. Sounds like that's whats going on here to me.

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post #33 of 44 Old 09-14-2006, 12:58 PM
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My '06 also had a noisy front brake, as did my RC51. It's the noise of the hard disc pads oscillating over the top of the radial machining marks. As soon as the marks are worn away thev noise subsides. Mine took about 1000 miles.

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post #34 of 44 Old 09-14-2006, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
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is there a loud howling/moaning noise from your brakes that's supposed to over whelm the sound of an 18wheeler, your helmet, and the headphones you have on?
Only if you have Sporty on the back. She likes to do this under hard braking.

Personally I would forego the attorney route at the moment. If your brakes can seriously drown out the above noises the dealer should resolve it. Try another dealer first.

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post #35 of 44 Old 09-16-2006, 05:06 PM
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The pad removal, cleaning, and application of Sil-Glyde did not solve the squeal problem. I guess I'll try the suggestion to re-seat the axle next. If that doesn't do the trick, I'll take it to the dealer to have them try new rotors. In the meantime, I'm laying on the front brake pretty good at stops to see if hard usage will do anything. Anyone else have any luck?

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post #36 of 44 Old 09-16-2006, 10:21 PM Thread Starter
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The pad removal, cleaning, and application of Sil-Glyde did not solve the squeal problem. I guess I'll try the suggestion to re-seat the axle next. If that doesn't do the trick, I'll take it to the dealer to have them try new rotors. In the meantime, I'm laying on the front brake pretty good at stops to see if hard usage will do anything. Anyone else have any luck?


Read the other thread, it is called "video of my brake problem".

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post #37 of 44 Old 09-22-2006, 01:13 PM
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Back from the dealer. So far, the squeal is gone. I did a 50 mile ride home with plenty of stops and, so far, no squeal. Here's what they did:

1. Cleaned both rotors front and back with a clean rag and brake cleaner;
2. Removed the pads and applied 'NAPA Brake Quiet' on the metal backings of the pads. This is a red-pinkish silicone based goo which was applied liberally, allowed to dry, and then the pads were re-installed.

The service manager rode the bike up and nailed the front brake. No noise. I'm not certain that he is convinced that this is a long term fix though. Time will tell. In the meantime, there is the recipe for others to try and see if it works and for how long. -Ken

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post #38 of 44 Old 09-22-2006, 02:28 PM
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Back from the dealer. So far, the squeal is gone. I did a 50 mile ride home with plenty of stops and, so far, no squeal. Here's what they did:

1. Cleaned both rotors front and back with a clean rag and brake cleaner;
2. Removed the pads and applied 'NAPA Brake Quiet' on the metal backings of the pads. This is a red-pinkish silicone based goo which was applied liberally, allowed to dry, and then the pads were re-installed.

The service manager rode the bike up and nailed the front brake. No noise. I'm not certain that he is convinced that this is a long term fix though. Time will tell. In the meantime, there is the recipe for others to try and see if it works and for how long. -Ken
Man.. had to take to the dealer for that? Almost a huge waste of time. That's a 30 min job and doesn't even require a rear or center stand.

Hope your noise stays away.

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post #39 of 44 Old 09-22-2006, 02:47 PM
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Man.. had to take to the dealer for that? Almost a huge waste of time.
Not really. The more important thing is that it has been witnessed and documented by a Honda approved service shop within the warranty period.

I hope it stays away too, but I have some doubts.

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post #40 of 44 Old 09-22-2006, 06:37 PM Thread Starter
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I'll have to try that, I just got my bike back again and the damn thing is still not fixed, it's driving me nuts.

By the way how many miles have you got on it since the fix, also how many hard stops have you made.

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