Another rc51 fork question, I've searched.... - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 26 Old 03-21-2010, 08:34 AM Thread Starter
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Another rc51 fork question, I've searched....

I've searched but can't find and answer:

929 lower triple and 919 steering stem, I know 9nineteen and few other put two together. How did you guys do that?

929 steering stem is not just a little thicker but also has wider portion on the bottom that prevents stem from being pulled out from the lower triple when steering head nut is tightened.

I removed 919 steering stem and it's just flat. What did you guys do? I assume you used a bushing to press 919 stem into and than pressed it all in 929 triple? If so did you weld 919 stem to the bushing so it won't get pulled out?


Here is a pic what I'm talking about:


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post #2 of 26 Old 03-22-2010, 03:42 AM Thread Starter
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nobody knows?

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post #3 of 26 Old 03-22-2010, 04:30 AM
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I know I do not know

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post #4 of 26 Old 03-22-2010, 10:15 AM
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I take it from your detailed drawings that you're a machinist and will do the work yourself?
Unfortunately, I don't have the answer for you.
I sent all my parts to the machinist that did the work for 9nineteen, but the work was never started and months later I just got a box full of loose parts back in the mail.

I ended up going the easy (but very expensive) route and had the triples custom made from Style & Performance in Italy.

I hope someone on here has an answer for you as it's MUCH cheaper to use assorted OEM parts than have the triples made.

I'll search through some old threads - 9nineteen posted photos of his completed triples from a few different angles. Maybe looking at them can help answer the question.

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post #5 of 26 Old 03-22-2010, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UJM View Post
I know I do not know
Me either, but I had a look at some file history I have kept, just in case I change my mind and do a RC51 swap one day.
I found nothing definitive.
I think the 919 stem just needs to be pressed in from above, and such that the height from where the lower race will rest upon, will maintain the same lower bearing to upper bearing distance as a standard 919.
Seeing as the 919 stem drawing zaq123 provided shows a straight diameter with no step, the insertion distance will have to be controlled, and the lower bearing is going to be located by where its underside rests upon the upper surface of the lower triple clamp.
I don't know if the 929/54 or RC lower triples are aluminum or steel. If aluminum, they can't be welded to the stem. If steel, they can be, and I'd think at least a tack or two from the underside would be wise.

Anyway, with all the people that have actually done this swap, there should be many that can tell zaq123 what he needs to know.

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post #6 of 26 Old 03-22-2010, 02:12 PM
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hope this helps.

Rc-51's had two different stems/triples

sp-1 2000-2001
sp-2 2002-2006

and the lower triple is alum.with the stem pressed in.

All I got sir.

'03 RC
CRA
#667 N
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post #7 of 26 Old 03-22-2010, 02:24 PM
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I found an old e-mail from the guy that did 9nineteen's triples. Here he explains what he needs to do to make the 919 stem work in the 929 lower triple:

It is more involved than just pressing stems. The 919 is a cast steel component and is one part. You have to use a fixture I have to machine the clamp away from the stem and then machine the proper diameter on the stem as well as a shoulder to retain it.

I found an old photo also.

Hope that helps
Attached Images
File Type: jpg tri_clamps005[2].jpg (32.5 KB, 86 views)

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post #8 of 26 Old 03-22-2010, 05:54 PM Thread Starter
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lol, I'm not a machinist, EE here.

I got 929 lower triple and I got 919 lower triple that you (mdtoney) sold me. 919 triple didn't work for the above reason but helped to keep me from disassembling the bike in order to move onto this project.
I compared 2 stems (929 and 919) and they are very similar:
the same threats for the top triple, the same size bearings/bearing races.
A few differences: 919 is steel, 929 is aluminum, 919 is longer that 929 and 929 has a different base (shown in the pic above)
I found the guy in MO who machines stems/triples for a living (dirt/adventure bikes) and 929 triple on its way to him as we speak. He told me he can reproduce it with the proper 919 length. we shall see in 2 weeks and $180 later.

The reason I asked this question due to a number of folks reporting the integration of 919 steel stem into 929 triple and it just drives me nuts, I absolutely need to know how in the world they did it

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post #9 of 26 Old 03-22-2010, 06:06 PM Thread Starter
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btw, it's amazing how cheap was Honda co. while producing 919, a freaking welded steel stem to the steel triple? wtf?
I actually have 2 front end project going on at the same time.
I have a set of freshly revalved/resprung/rebuild f4i forks sitting and waiting to be installed (waiting for front fender to be painted) while I get parts for a long term rc51 project.

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post #10 of 26 Old 03-22-2010, 06:16 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:

It is more involved than just pressing stems. The 919 is a cast steel component and is one part. You have to use a fixture I have to machine the clamp away from the stem and then machine the proper diameter on the stem as well as a shoulder to retain it.
It makes sense now. 919 stem is welded at the bottom to 919 lower triple. He basically just cuts the lower triple around the stem and machines the base of it to resemble 929 stem's base. I guess you can achieve something similar by simply building up 919 stem base with welded material and than machining it.

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post #11 of 26 Old 03-22-2010, 06:30 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
Me either, but I had a look at some file history I have kept, just in case I change my mind and do a RC51 swap one day.
I found nothing definitive.
I think the 919 stem just needs to be pressed in from above, and such that the height from where the lower race will rest upon, will maintain the same lower bearing to upper bearing distance as a standard 919.
Seeing as the 919 stem drawing zaq123 provided shows a straight diameter with no step, the insertion distance will have to be controlled, and the lower bearing is going to be located by where its underside rests upon the upper surface of the lower triple clamp.
I don't know if the 929/54 or RC lower triples are aluminum or steel. If aluminum, they can't be welded to the stem. If steel, they can be, and I'd think at least a tack or two from the underside would be wise.

Anyway, with all the people that have actually done this swap, there should be many that can tell zaq123 what he needs to know.
A few details: 919 stem is thinner than hole in lower 929 triple (I think by about ~.5mm) Basically 30mm 919 stem is just falls thought 30.5mm hole (don't quote this numbers, I don't have the exact number in front of me right now).
It would be nice if someone actually posts a complete RC51 swap how-to. It is a shame that after so many swaps we still in the dark on what exactly has to be done. If I proceed with this swap, I will definitely document it for you guys.

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post #12 of 26 Old 03-22-2010, 07:00 PM
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i just found a 919 with a 600rr setup on it, i might have to inquire what that took to pull off, i thought a 1000rr would be nice to have.

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post #13 of 26 Old 03-22-2010, 07:31 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3dcycle View Post
i just found a 919 with a 600rr setup on it, i might have to inquire what that took to pull off, i thought a 1000rr would be nice to have.
lets see it. 600rr triples or forks?

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post #14 of 26 Old 03-23-2010, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3dcycle View Post
i just found a 919 with a 600rr setup on it, i might have to inquire what that took to pull off, i thought a 1000rr would be nice to have.
When you inquire, ask about the length of the 600RR fork legs. Years ago when my front end project was just beginning (before I even owned a 919), I bought a complete CBR954 front end only to learn through the forums that the fork legs are 1.5 inches shorter than 919 legs... back to ebay...

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post #15 of 26 Old 03-23-2010, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zaq123 View Post
A few details: 919 stem is thinner than hole in lower 929 triple (I think by about ~.5mm) Basically 30mm 919 stem is just falls thought 30.5mm hole (don't quote this numbers, I don't have the exact number in front of me right now).
It would be nice if someone actually posts a complete RC51 swap how-to. It is a shame that after so many swaps we still in the dark on what exactly has to be done. If I proceed with this swap, I will definitely document it for you guys.

WHERE ARE ALL THE PEOPLE HIDING THAT HAVE DONE THIS SWAP ?

I also have something else to toss into the ring.
I have seen reference to using the RC51 lower triples as well. (Noting they are a "dropped" or "arched" style, depending on your preferred terminology.
Is it possible that the 919 stem is the same diameter as the RC51 stem where it fits into the lower triple?
Last point.
I looked at my 919 last night.
The lower is steel, and the stem is welded where it pushes through to the underside of the stem.
So, the 919 stem is likely an interference fit but intended to be permanently left in place by virtue of the 360 degree underside weld.

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post #16 of 26 Old 03-23-2010, 02:14 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
So, the 919 stem is likely an interference fit but intended to be permanently left in place by virtue of the 360 degree underside weld.
exactly. I had to grind that weld off in order to press 919 stem out. There is no way you can install 919 stem into 929 or any aluminum triple without modifying its bottom side.
The steering head nut will just pull the stem out of triple if it's not wedged like 929 stem or welded like in 919.

In any case $180 is not a bad price for new custom stem IMO. I guess we will see.

Now I need to find spare 919 front rim. Anyone is selling one???
I found someone who will attempt to modify 919 rim to accept rc51 axle and bearings for $60. This way there is no need for new rear and front rims, new tires, new rear bearing etc. At least $500 savings right there

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post #17 of 26 Old 03-23-2010, 03:07 PM
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I wish you lived in Colorado, seems like we both just can't get enough of tinkering with stuff...

Anyway, here's a front wheel on Ebay ya might be able to get cheap...

Complete front wheel & rotors from a 2002 Honda 919 : eBay Motors (item 110510192109 end time Mar-28-10 13:24:34 PDT)

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaq123 View Post
Now I need to find spare 919 front rim. Anyone is selling one???
I found someone who will attempt to modify 919 rim to accept rc51 axle and bearings for $60. This way there is no need for new rear and front rims, new tires, new rear bearing etc. At least $500 savings right there





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SOLD SOLD SOLD

When Sold:
2004 Honda 919 Silver and Black w/red accents
599 Headlight
Koso Gauges DB-02r
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Buell M2 shield - plasti dip black
Givi Crash bars
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Michelin Pilot Road 3 - New @ 19940 8/10/11 190/55r17 rear
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17t / 44t Sprockets, 520 conversion from LDH
New All-balls bearings thru-out 6/2012
Piaa horns 400 & 500 hertz
Ohlins rear shock from an F3, Re-Valved/Sprung- By Pro Pilot Suspension
F4i Forks, custom sprung/sealed/valved, Plasti-dipped Black
ASV shorty clutch and front brake levers - Black W/Red Adj.
Tech-Spec custom tank Pads
Napoleon bar end mirrors
SW-Motech center stand
Custom Handle Bars with Grip Heaters and OEM hidden switch, Hi/Lo heat
FuzeBlocks FZ-1 Power Distribution
Shorai Battery
F2P garage door opener wired to brake switch
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post #18 of 26 Old 03-23-2010, 03:53 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mntnceguy View Post
I wish you lived in Colorado, seems like we both just can't get enough of tinkering with stuff...

Anyway, here's a front wheel on Ebay ya might be able to get cheap...
thanks for posting it for everyone to see, now I definitely get it cheap
they have a PM for that you know

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post #19 of 26 Old 03-23-2010, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zaq123 View Post
thanks for posting it for everyone to see, now I definitely get it cheap
they have a PM for that you know
OMG!!! LMFAO!!!

Somebody accidentally did that to me last year when I was trying to do my exhaust. Guy on here wound up buying the pipe and can I was going to do on my bike, I missed the bids by just a few dollars. Now I gotta put my stock crap back on for this season...SUCKED!

REALLY SORRY!!! Nobody here buy the wheel....Please

Hopefully that works better for you than it did me, I frikken HATE when things are ironic





Pics: https://www.wristtwisters.com/album.php?albumid=176

Build List in Spoiler
Spoiler:


SOLD SOLD SOLD

When Sold:
2004 Honda 919 Silver and Black w/red accents
599 Headlight
Koso Gauges DB-02r
GiPro gear indicator
Buell M2 shield - plasti dip black
Givi Crash bars
Dynojet PCIII, Custom Akrapovic map
Akrapovic GSXR 750 Exhaust, Shorty Carbon fiber Low mount
Custom weld job on OEM header, to enable use of center stand and GSXR exhaust
VFR front fender, re-shaped and CF wrapped
Seargent seat w/ gel insert
Custom LED Rear lights w/ Vizi-tech flasher
Competition Works Fender Eliminator, modified
Front 3-way LED Turn Signals flushmount via cbr1000r
6-Spoke wheel conversion ( 900rr-rear / F3-front ) Powdercoated white, Plasti-dipped black
Michelin Pilot Road 3 - New @ 19940 8/10/11 190/55r17 rear
Dyna Beads for tire balancing
17t / 44t Sprockets, 520 conversion from LDH
New All-balls bearings thru-out 6/2012
Piaa horns 400 & 500 hertz
Ohlins rear shock from an F3, Re-Valved/Sprung- By Pro Pilot Suspension
F4i Forks, custom sprung/sealed/valved, Plasti-dipped Black
ASV shorty clutch and front brake levers - Black W/Red Adj.
Tech-Spec custom tank Pads
Napoleon bar end mirrors
SW-Motech center stand
Custom Handle Bars with Grip Heaters and OEM hidden switch, Hi/Lo heat
FuzeBlocks FZ-1 Power Distribution
Shorai Battery
F2P garage door opener wired to brake switch
Hydraulic rear brake switch
RC51 front brakes SP1, with 10 button rotors
Buell Ulysses Dropped Foot Peg conversion
Powdercoated: 22+ parts
etc, etc,
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post #20 of 26 Old 03-23-2010, 04:52 PM Thread Starter
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it's ok man, it's just a freaking wheel, there will be more.

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post #21 of 26 Old 03-23-2010, 09:57 PM
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wheels can be swapped from most Hondas w/o too much work. I put on CBR1000RR wheels, and it consisted of careful measurements of bearings, and custom spacers. I also had to mill the rear caliper mount 1/8 if i remember right... I dream of some RC pogos, and have a few CAD prints at home that i can share with you when i get there; it was for a complete custom triple & stem if i remember right, but it is very detailed. Post-it note placed on forehead to remember.

30,000 mile 919 survivor. No plans of stopping the abuse any time soon.
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post #22 of 26 Old 03-24-2010, 12:34 PM
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well, i can't see the pictures at work, so when i got home, dug around and came to post my very limited knowledge on the task at hand, i find that you know exactly what i know. i have the same print you have, possibly... from Fitz...

30,000 mile 919 survivor. No plans of stopping the abuse any time soon.
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post #23 of 26 Old 03-24-2010, 02:58 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scrat View Post
well, i can't see the pictures at work, so when i got home, dug around and came to post my very limited knowledge on the task at hand, i find that you know exactly what i know. i have the same print you have, possibly... from Fitz...
yep, . Unfortunately I couldn't use his records as my machinist found them NEI (Not Enough Information)

I had to send my machinist 929 stem with some dimensions I took from 919 assembly.

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post #24 of 26 Old 04-07-2010, 08:47 PM
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All you need to do is make the stem shown in the drawing, press it into the cbr929 lower, add extra stops and you should be good. Now as for the upper and mounting everything, you are on your own. If you are using clamps on and a different headlight it should be pretty straight fowards.

While I did make that stem and pressed it into the 929 lower I never used it. I test fitted it and it was fine, also the purchaser never told me of any problems.

I also have 3d designs of the stem if you want it. But all of the important dimensions are in the print you have. (actually looking at the picture, it is missing much of the dimensions, oops Sorry).

My email is [email protected] if anyone wants the 3d .dxf or .dwg designs.

Eric

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post #25 of 26 Old 04-07-2010, 09:11 PM Thread Starter
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thanks Eric.

I already have new custom stem on its way back to me. I just took some dimensions from 919 stem and sent the machinist 929 stem.

The only reason I asked in this thread is the fact that some folks are using 919 stem in lower 929 and I just want to know how they are doing it

Quote:
Originally Posted by efitzgerald View Post
All you need to do is make the stem shown in the drawing, press it into the cbr929 lower, add extra stops and you should be good. Now as for the upper and mounting everything, you are on your own. If you are using clamps on and a different headlight it should be pretty straight fowards.

While I did make that stem and pressed it into the 929 lower I never used it. I test fitted it and it was fine, also the purchaser never told me of any problems.

I also have 3d designs of the stem if you want it. But all of the important dimensions are in the print you have. (actually looking at the picture, it is missing much of the dimensions, oops Sorry).

My email is [email protected] if anyone wants the 3d .dxf or .dwg designs.

Eric

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post #26 of 26 Old 05-22-2010, 01:00 AM
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Hi !

I have done a RC51 front fork swap

BUT !!!!!

the outer diameter of the 919 stem is 30mm and the outer diameter of the CBR's are 30,5mm

so even after buying a set of tripples -at an okay price - expensive shipping and costums from US - I have a box of quite expensive stems and tripples that didnt come into use sitting on the shelf

I ended up with finding a set of CB1000R tripples and stem, only downside is that the lower graps a 1mm larger diamter on the CB1000R - I just gut a bushing (well 0.5mm plate rolled to approx diameter - to insert into the clamp before tighening)
however this was the only setback as the lenght of the stem and bearings and all was all 919 dimensions

comming back to the tripple clamp konstruction

steel 919 stem need to be enlarged in diameter
alu CBR stem needs to be enlonged in length

Easiest part would be to add material and re lathe the steel stem

Lars

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