9er quick turn throttle? - Wrist Twisters
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 20 Old 10-04-2010, 07:49 PM Thread Starter
Princeps Prior
 
arctic954's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 1,816
Rep Power: 1
 
9er quick turn throttle?

.....have used an r6 throttle tube on a few bikes....

Anyone know of what works on the 919 for a quicker turn?

arctic954 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 20 Old 10-04-2010, 07:54 PM
LDH
Test Rider
 
LDH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: by the ocean
Posts: 4,333
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Trackday Recognition Referral Award 
Total Awards: 2

Most likely any standard HRC throttle tube

LDH is offline  
post #3 of 20 Old 10-04-2010, 08:14 PM Thread Starter
Princeps Prior
 
arctic954's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 1,816
Rep Power: 1
 
Price? Distributor?

arctic954 is offline  
post #4 of 20 Old 10-04-2010, 08:20 PM
LDH
Test Rider
 
LDH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: by the ocean
Posts: 4,333
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Trackday Recognition Referral Award 
Total Awards: 2

I stopped selling them about 6 months ago, but purely coincidentally I am expecting some more soon as a special order for a customer.

The issue will be the fact this will be somewhat trial & error... The HRC Throttle Tube alone may or may not do the job. It may also require the throttle housing and possibly longer lines too... Price would range from $50 to $130 depending on what parts are needed.

LDH is offline  
post #5 of 20 Old 10-04-2010, 08:28 PM
Discen
 
Blue919Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 192
Rep Power: 1
 
I use the rizoma billet grips, and throttle turn was a little quicker. They come with a few cams to adjust it.

Blue919Guy is offline  
post #6 of 20 Old 10-04-2010, 08:33 PM
LDH
Test Rider
 
LDH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: by the ocean
Posts: 4,333
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Trackday Recognition Referral Award 
Total Awards: 2

Sounds like a solution right there

LDH is offline  
post #7 of 20 Old 10-05-2010, 06:30 AM Thread Starter
Princeps Prior
 
arctic954's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 1,816
Rep Power: 1
 
......few years back on TLZone/TLPlanet, there was a guy that use to make custom parts for the TL1000R.....

He also made a simple piece of plastic that you'd simply drop in the throttle house to change the cam size. One of those things that when I received it.....I thought....that's it?

arctic954 is offline  
post #8 of 20 Old 10-05-2010, 06:32 AM Thread Starter
Princeps Prior
 
arctic954's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 1,816
Rep Power: 1
 
I might just buy an R6 throttle tube and try it....... Heck, they're all for 7/8 bars with the same piece of lead at the end of the cable.....usually the only difference is the width of the throttle cam.

The R6 throttle tube is $15 from a dealer.

arctic954 is offline  
post #9 of 20 Old 10-05-2010, 06:46 AM Thread Starter
Princeps Prior
 
arctic954's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 1,816
Rep Power: 1
 
.....I digress, looks like both the R1 and the '06 R6 tubes are the keepers. With the R1 tube being even less of a turn....ones 1/6th, the other is 1/5th.

I happen to still have an R1 throttle tube sitting on my bench......I'll take everything apart tonight and post up the results.

Btw - here is a link to a guy talking about using the R6 tube on a z1000.

http://www.riderforums.com/showthread.php?t=41625

arctic954 is offline  
post #10 of 20 Old 10-05-2010, 03:42 PM
Community Moderator
 
g00gl3it's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,613
Rep Power: 1
  

Awards Showcase
Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Wrist Twisters Event Attendance 
Total Awards: 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue919Guy View Post
I use the rizoma billet grips, and throttle turn was a little quicker. They come with a few cams to adjust it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
Sounds like a solution right there
I have the Rizomas as well, but I could only get one cam to fit. Didn't pay attention to throttle turn after the change though, sorry

Sure do love the grips though!

2009 Aprilia Tuono - Ginger
2001 XR650R BRP (Big Red Pig)
2006 Honda 599 - Ex wrecked it :-D
2007 Honda CB900F (sold)
2006 Honda VTX 1300C (sold)
YouTube Channel
g00gl3it is offline  
post #11 of 20 Old 10-06-2010, 04:17 PM
Tire abuser
 
prtsimmons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Kamloops, BC, Canada
Posts: 148
Rep Power: 1
 
You want a Tamer Throttle from G2 Ergonomics. G2 Ergonomics - Motorcycle Throttles Tubes

I used to work at a shop that sold them. You can change the cam on the throttle to have a quicker throttle, or a much quicker throttle, or fast off the bottom with slow throttle for the last 1/4 of the turn - they are much more sophisticated than a simple quicker throttle. They really improved a lot of bikes with jerky power curves (i.e., KTM 950 Adventure, 2-stroke dirtbikes). Good quality, well engineered, made in USA, what more could you want?

prtsimmons is offline  
post #12 of 20 Old 10-06-2010, 06:58 PM
The Cripple
 
Pvster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 8,764
Rep Power: 1
 
ok i'm missing something here. can someone explain to me how a quicker throttle turn can improve twitchy throttle responses? my best impression for improving said issue was to adjust the air/fuel mixtures throughout the rpm range. on the 919, this is done via a PC3 and i have to say, it works. my current 919 with no PC3 is VERY jerky and twitchy whereas my other 919 that had the PC3 was much smoother in throttle response.

Pvster is offline  
post #13 of 20 Old 10-06-2010, 07:17 PM
Centurion
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Right Here
Posts: 1,329
Rep Power: 1
 
My 919 is twitchy even with a PCIII. It is the thing that bothers me the most about the 919.

The G2 throttle tamer is just that...a TAMER... it is the opposite of a quick turn. It is slow initially then eventually goes back to stock depending on the cam profile. G2 does make quick turns, they are the ones called "quick turn." I have my eye on one for my WR250X

Bryce919er is offline  
post #14 of 20 Old 10-07-2010, 07:11 AM
McTavish
 
mcromo44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,589
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryce919er View Post
My 919 is twitchy even with a PCIII. It is the thing that bothers me the most about the 919.

The G2 throttle tamer is just that...a TAMER... it is the opposite of a quick turn. It is slow initially then eventually goes back to stock depending on the cam profile. G2 does make quick turns, they are the ones called "quick turn." I have my eye on one for my WR250X
An unsynch'd PCIII with a standard PCIII does not yield ideal results, especially if the typically excessive 919 throttle cable slack has not been adjusted out.

Have you synch'd the PCIII to the ECU Throttle Positioner ?

What map are you using ?

What are you running for exhaust ?

Mine was a nightmare in slow stop and go traffic before the PCIII etc. It was like an on off switch below 2500 RPM is stop and go traffic and first gear crawling. Now I have excellent throttle control down to below 1,000 RPM. You should not be having the excessive twitchiness you are experiencing.

mcromo44 is offline  
post #15 of 20 Old 10-07-2010, 05:04 PM
Centurion
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Right Here
Posts: 1,329
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
An unsynch'd PCIII with a standard PCIII does not yield ideal results,
I don't follow that line...


But on the rest, yes cables adjusted the slack out before the PCIII.

I did the open/closed set throttle thing on the PCIII with a computer hooked up.

LDH's Sato2 map with gen II Satos, flapper mod, noothing else.

I have not ridden a stock 919 in 6+ years so I can't say or remember if it is improved over stock but I think there is still room for improvement.

Bryce919er is offline  
post #16 of 20 Old 10-07-2010, 05:10 PM
McTavish
 
mcromo44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,589
Rep Power: 1
 
Hmmmm, LDH does really sharp mapping work, so it's not the map.
You have the cable slack out.
You've synch'd.
And you still have the on/off twitchy snatchiness.
I don't know what to say. I can walk mine down to less than 1000 RPM underload and have perfect throttle control and don't even need a dab of clutch. (Yosh TRSs with a map very similar to LDH's Version 4 Moriwaki based map)
Do you have stock front springs by chance ?
They are soooooooo light, that could be part of it, if not the major part of what you are dealing with.

mcromo44 is offline  
post #17 of 20 Old 10-07-2010, 05:26 PM
rmb
Let's go!
 
rmb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sussex Couty NJ
Posts: 7,649
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Wrist Twisters Event Attendance 
Total Awards: 9

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
Hmmmm, LDH does really sharp mapping work, so it's not the map.
You have the cable slack out.
You've synch'd.
And you still have the on/off twitchy snatchiness.
I don't know what to say. I can walk mine down to less than 1000 RPM underload and have perfect throttle control and don't even need a dab of clutch. (Yosh TRSs with a map very similar to LDH's Version 4 Moriwaki based map)
Do you have stock front springs by chance ?
They are soooooooo light, that could be part of it, if not the major part of what you are dealing with.
Could you elaborate on this and post # 14 a little more please. I have a pcIII but have not installed it yet( waiting for winter). I'm very curious about your comment on the springs, I'm planning on fork work soon and have an Ohlins shock to install too.

rmb is offline  
post #18 of 20 Old 10-07-2010, 06:28 PM
McTavish
 
mcromo44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,589
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmb View Post
Could you elaborate on this and post # 14 a little more please. I have a pcIII but have not installed it yet( waiting for winter). I'm very curious about your comment on the springs, I'm planning on fork work soon and have an Ohlins shock to install too.
Pleased to.

With the stock front as softly sprung as it is, it doesn't take much to get it diving. Once you get it diving and give it chance to unload, it'll spring right back up. Imagine your throttle as an on off kill switch. Each "off" will engine brake dive the front end. The subsequent "on" will spring it back up. If you have poor mapping down low, worse yet with too much throttle slack, and find yourself having to continually play the throttle back and forth, the front end gets going up and down. This is first hand experience speaking, not theoretical imagination and maybe you have experienced it too. Stock 919 mapping sucks. The base map loaded into the PCIII is not very good either. Bad mapping = bad fueling = poor combustion = fluctuating engine output. I found the stock map and the PCIII map to be poor, stock was worse. At 2500 and lower RPMs and small throttle openings with a 1/3 to 1/2 temp gauge condition, the throttle was like an on /off switch. It literally bucked on me. Roll off in 1st gear slow traffic and it dived, crack it open a bit and it jumped and rose. I learned to soften it with some clutch slippage. Ok, so you want a good map, those can be had for free off this site, and that will get you in the zone map wise if all you have is the basic PCIII map in your new PCIII. But mapping alone is not enough. Unless the map is perfectly synchronized with the factory ECU's throttle positioner, things won't be happening at the correct time. Here's why. The map is a two axis co-ordinate based map that relies on specific combinations of RPM and % throttle opening. For example, one co-ordinate is a 2 % Throttle Opening x 1750 RPM point, at which the ECU will signal the fuel injectors to be open for a certain and very precise duration in order to deliver a set amount of gasoline. Then you install a PCIIIusb with some map in it. The PCIIIusb piggybacks on the ECU and alters the ECU's map by whatever the difference is between the PCIII map and the map in the ECU. BUT if the PCIII is not synch'd to the ECU, then the PCIII map adjustment will be shifted from the correct co-ordinates. Imagine this. The bike is at 2 % Throttle Opening and 1750 RPM, but the PCIII is out of phase by + 3 % re Throttle Position. The result will be that the ECU will get a PCIII instruction that is actually for a 5 % Throttle Opening position, even though the bike truly is only at 2 %. The fuel injectors will be told to stay open too long, and will deliver too much gasoline. It will run rich, and could bog. Of course, the opposite scenario can also occur. This is why you have to synchronize the PCIIIusb to the bikes Throttle Positioner.

Is the above what you are looking for ?
If not, just say what else you are looking for and I'll do my best.

I've also redone my front end, 0.925 kg/mm springs, and revalved, all towards heavy track day useage. The stiffer front end has also helped.

If you want more info on the Throttle Synching, I have put together a canned package of info that I've sent to others. There's maps included, as well as some map comparisons. Just send me a PM with an e mail address that can accept attachments, and I'll send it your way.

mcromo44 is offline  
post #19 of 20 Old 10-08-2010, 04:36 PM
rmb
Let's go!
 
rmb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sussex Couty NJ
Posts: 7,649
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Wrist Twisters Event Attendance 
Total Awards: 9

Thanks, PM sent. This helps alot, all this is new to me. I'm planning to do springs and possibly valving over the winter, I agree with your observation of the up & down in the front at slower speeds, I've felt it a few times...

rmb is offline  
post #20 of 20 Old 10-08-2010, 06:55 PM
Centurion
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Right Here
Posts: 1,329
Rep Power: 1
 
Yes I do have stock suspension (but an 04 rear shock).

Bryce919er is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wrist Twisters forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome