919 - turns over, won't start - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 19 Old 09-20-2014, 11:30 AM Thread Starter
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919 - turns over, won't start

I've had the bike 2 years and have put 10k miles on it (17,700 total) with no issues. I've always stored it indoors, and kept up with regular maintenance. A couple weeks ago I tried to leave for work and that's when it wouldn't start. The FI light came on which has happened before, but in very cold weather.

The last time it ran was when I idled it after an oil change a few days before. It fired right up, and nothing was out of the ordinary. Initially, I thought it might be related to my oil change. It was the first time I didn't change the filter with the oil, so I suspected overfill. No oil light, however there was oil still in the inspection window. I said to hell with it, dumped the oil, and redid it with a new filter. Still no start of course.

In the meantime, I ordered new spark plugs and the handy oem plug wrench (after finding my sockets didn't fit).

Next I checked for fault codes. It gave me 7 blinks for the ECT. The voltage and resistance checked out on the sensor, so I ruled that out and cleared out the code. Before trying another start I replaced the plugs. Still no start. Plugs seem to be getting good spark.

Now it gives me a solid FI light. Check bank sensor, voltage good. Tilting trips the FSR like it should. I check the FSR itself. Two prongs give battery voltage, the other two give ~0.5v. Seems fine. No continuity with no voltage applied on the relay. All fuses are good.

I'm about at the point where it looks like I have to replace the pgm-fi unit, but maybe I missed something obvious. It just seems weird for it to die out of the blue. Perhaps the oil change was just a coincidence.

Just wanting a second or third opinion before I drop a bunch of money on a part.

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post #2 of 19 Old 09-20-2014, 12:03 PM
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Try flipping the kill switch off and back on

Sometimes works

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post #3 of 19 Old 09-20-2014, 12:41 PM
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Starter switch assembly can get dirty - same with kill switch. Some folks spray some WD-40 in there and work the switch back and forth to clean the contacts.

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post #4 of 19 Old 09-20-2014, 01:30 PM
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It is unlikely that the kill switch is the culprit -- it won't crank if the kill switch is off.

Do you hear the fuel pump prime when the key is turned on? If not it could be the electrical part of the switch is defective: without a certain signal from the switch the EFI system will not power up.

There is a troubleshooting guide I wrote a while back that will guide you through the ins and outages which may be of some help. Look here: https://www.wristtwisters.com/forums/...ems-14216.html

Of course the problem may lie elsewhere -- has there been an infestation of gremlins in your area lately?

Good luck.

Rob

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On the other hand, if it has not been done never assume it is impossible to do it.
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post #5 of 19 Old 09-20-2014, 01:48 PM Thread Starter
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As a matter of fact, yes. Gremlins found my F150 recently, too.

Yes, the fuel pump primes. The bike acts completely normal except the running part.

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post #6 of 19 Old 09-20-2014, 03:47 PM
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Do you have a PC3 installed? If yes ..... remove it 100% and then trouble shoot.

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post #7 of 19 Old 09-20-2014, 04:46 PM Thread Starter
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No PC3. Only things done are pair valve removal and the flapper mod.

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post #8 of 19 Old 09-20-2014, 05:33 PM
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Any changes done to it recently? Pulled a plug and let it sit on the valve cover while you thumb the starter?

if you love your motorcycle, set it free.. if it comes back and hits you.. you highsided
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post #9 of 19 Old 09-20-2014, 05:54 PM
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Is there gas in the tank?

I plan to die young, as late as possible.
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post #10 of 19 Old 09-21-2014, 05:17 AM
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Spitballin'

What was the condition of the spark plugs you replaced? If they were anything but clean, dry, and the insulator ceramics a light tan / gray color it may have fouled them, in which case I would try cranking the motor with the throttle held wide open. Most FI systems, yours included, have a feature called "dechoke", where a full throttle condition while cranking will cut off the injectors which will clear the cylinders of residual fuel. It has worked for several WT members who idled their motor from cold for a short time, and then let it sit for a few days. It's worth a shot. I also recommend pulling the headlight fuse and taping it to the handlebar (so you remember its not in the fuse box) until such time as you have it running again -- no need for the headlight, and it decreases the load on the battery which helps increase troubleshooting time.

Past that, you will have to confirm the presence of the three things any engine needs to run: air, fuel, and spark. You already know the air and spark are there, all that's left is the fuel.

Rob

If it has already been done, it is safe to assume it is possible to do it.
On the other hand, if it has not been done never assume it is impossible to do it.
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post #11 of 19 Old 09-21-2014, 05:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robtharalson View Post
It is unlikely that the kill switch is the culprit -- it won't crank if the kill switch is off.

Do you hear the fuel pump prime when the key is turned on? If not it could be the electrical part of the switch is defective: without a certain signal from the switch the EFI system will not power up.

There is a troubleshooting guide I wrote a while back that will guide you through the ins and outages which may be of some help. Look here: https://www.wristtwisters.com/forums/...ems-14216.html

Of course the problem may lie elsewhere -- has there been an infestation of gremlins in your area lately?

Good luck.

Rob
Unlikely, yes, but worth a try to get it out of the way.

At least if he had a PCIII, which he does not. I'd still try it anyway.

My suggestion is to follow the step-by-step troubleshooting guidelines outlined in the factory service manual.

Sometimes, believe it or not, the factory service manual is more accurate than internet advise.

Sometimes others might even quote the factory service manual, as their own

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post #12 of 19 Old 09-22-2014, 10:02 AM Thread Starter
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I've been going off the service manual and the FI light codes. First bike I've worked on this complex. My other Hondas were simple carbed beasts.

The old plugs were nasty. Dark and a bit sticky.

I tried the WOT trick, and it seemed to have a bit more rumble to it while turning over. I'll check it again tonight.

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post #13 of 19 Old 09-22-2014, 10:07 AM
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If the old plugs were that bad, you might have a bad FPR (Fuel Pressure Regulator). It's a known issue on these bikes, especially with bikes that have sat with old or stale fuel in them.

Do a search for "FPR" and you'll find some threads on it.

Not saying that that is the issue, just a possibility.

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post #14 of 19 Old 09-22-2014, 08:44 PM Thread Starter
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I'll give that a look. The bike fired up a minute ago, revved to ~1500rpm then immediately died.

Put some fresh gas in it, so hopefully that'll help.

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post #15 of 19 Old 09-22-2014, 10:24 PM Thread Starter
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Well since it showed signs of life earlier I decided to go out one more time after the battery had some time to recharge. She sputtered, I gave it some gas, and she fired up.

I guess it was a case of old fouled plugs, aging gas, and sitting a little too long. Holding the throttle wide open while cranking it definitely helped.

Thanks guys.

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post #16 of 19 Old 09-23-2014, 08:12 AM
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Time to take it for an extended ride with some aggressive fuel cleaner!!!

Seafoam is the bees knees.

2009 Aprilia Tuono - Ginger
2001 XR650R BRP (Big Red Pig)
2006 Honda 599 - Ex wrecked it :-D
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post #17 of 19 Old 09-23-2014, 08:44 AM
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Looks like it was flooded

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post #18 of 19 Old 09-23-2014, 10:41 AM
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JB Brothers Fuel Injection Cleaning System.

Once a year I run this in my vehicles. It helps tremendously.

I used this 12 years ago on my 1992 Trans Am. Pulled a plug, saw the plug was completely fouled, like the injector was dripping fuel in (which I could tell something was wrong when it was at idle).

I put this in according to the instructions, ran it for 10 miles on the freeway going back and forth from 4th to 5th gear.
Came back and let it idle in the garage and immediately noticed a smooth idle!
Pulled the plug as soon as the engine cooled down, and the plug looked nice and clean.

Been using it ever since in all my bikes and cars. $14 bucks a can it better work

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post #19 of 19 Old 09-27-2014, 09:33 AM
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i wonder what the verdict was on this?

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