919 turbo - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 23 Old 08-10-2014, 07:34 PM Thread Starter
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919 turbo

I recently found a dead link to a web site claiming a 919 turbo as a possibility any ideas is it do able or not http://www.thebikergene.com/naked-bi...per-from-hell/

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post #2 of 23 Old 08-10-2014, 09:04 PM
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Never seen that kit and it's well hidden. One concern I would have is that it's so far down the exhaust that the turbo lag could be huge as compared to being very close the the start of the exhaust.

an issue with turbos is waiting for the turbo to spin up. That looks like a lot of exhaust to compress to get the turbo up to speed.

Not to mention a hot as heck turbo near the seating area instead of being out in the air.

Keeping the turbo and intake charge cool under there is going to be tough.

One other issue with most bikes is the compression. You need low compression to do more boost.

Overall, it seems like the kit doesn't address any real issues with a conversion: Lag, Heat, Compression, etc...

Heat and high compression can kill the whole reason to convert.

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post #3 of 23 Old 08-10-2014, 09:19 PM
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Yeah, that would be wave engineering.

I went as far as to tracking down the cnc company that machined the parts for the turbo and hoped to get blue prints, never heard back.

So, it's pretty much a bust.

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post #4 of 23 Old 08-11-2014, 10:19 AM
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Try emailing Bill at wave and see if he can help you out if your still interested. I have his email address if you want it.

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post #5 of 23 Old 08-11-2014, 10:32 AM Thread Starter
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Please I would love to get that email address thank you

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post #6 of 23 Old 08-11-2014, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodyeee View Post
Try emailing Bill at wave and see if he can help you out if your still interested. I have his email address if you want it.
I've tried that email numerous times, never got a response. Tracked down the shop and called only to find it disconnected.

Woody, if you could help that would be amazing! I cannot and will not buy a Tuouno in the foreseeable future, so slapping a turbo on this puppy would easily hold me over until then!

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post #7 of 23 Old 08-11-2014, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvster View Post

I've tried that email numerous times, never got a response.
Are you sure or you just didn't hear them on the other side talking back? ok ok terrible I know

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post #8 of 23 Old 08-11-2014, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by andrewebay1 View Post
Are you sure or you just didn't hear them on the other side talking back? ok ok terrible I know
That's just wrong on so many levels...

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post #9 of 23 Old 08-11-2014, 06:07 PM Thread Starter
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If I can find what type of turbo was used and how they mapped the fuel injection I have more than enough access to the cnc equipment and fab stuff required to build anything

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post #10 of 23 Old 08-11-2014, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daniels919 View Post
If I can find what type of turbo was used and how they mapped the fuel injection I have more than enough access to the cnc equipment and fab stuff required to build anything
I could find that for you. I found it before. At least the turbo. Fuel mapping.... No do much lol.

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post #11 of 23 Old 08-11-2014, 09:57 PM
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Ive still got part of the installation manual that Bill created somewhere, I will look when I get home as I'm currently away.

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post #12 of 23 Old 08-11-2014, 11:44 PM
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Tried finding cached versions of the website, no luck.

However, searching WT has yielded:

[email protected]
https://www.wristtwisters.com/forums/...tml#post285637

https://www.wristtwisters.com/forums/...tml#post296710

https://www.wristtwisters.com/forums/...tml#post304535

And the Jackpot!:

Honda 919 Turbo

Quote:
The Honda 919T system utilizes a Garrett GT-1548 turbo and all custom-made parts, including a CNC'ed air box, custom intake and exhaust piping, fabricated battery mount, oil scavenge pump, user-programmable "piggy-back" ECU, and all the brackets, hoses and parts needed to make it work and fit right, and (most importantly!) look stock.



The 919T Turbo System is set up to 7 PSI boost and uses a 2" turbo outlet pipe and the left factory muffler only (modified for no airflow restriction with 2" inlet and outlet - looks stock). The right pipe/muffler is not used, but is still mounted to maintain a "stock bike" appearance.



An optional "Gauge Package" is recommended, which includes custom 919 gauge mounting brackets, and your choice of two gauges - either a Vacuum/Boost Gauge, an Air/Fuel Ratio Gauge, or an Oil Pressure Gauge. Also we can provide carbon-fiber or satin black steel gauge cups, and an O2 sensor and wiring harness.



919 Turbo Systems are available now, the price for a turbo system (less gauges and muffler) will be $2400 plus shipping.
https://www.wristtwisters.com/forums/...tml#post600337

Gonna start archiving what I can.

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post #13 of 23 Old 08-11-2014, 11:46 PM
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Quote:
So Why A 919T Instead Of a Sportbike?


The Honda 919 is a great bike - you sit up straight, it's comfortable to ride, and you can carry your friend or your stuff on the back. You can ride on a trip without your back or butt hurting. It's a great bike, just a little lacking in power.

The 919 is basically a CBR900RR engine with a few differences. The 900RR is a rocket - really fast, great top-end power. But the 919 is toned down a bit... a bit more "civilized". The 919 has smaller valves, lower compression, and cams with less duration and lift. These changes were made to increase lower-rpm power (torque), but do sacrifice high-rpm horsepower. Riders say that the fuel-injection system is responsible for the power decrease, which is just not true. The fuel injection itself doesn't reduce power, but the smaller diameter throttle bodies do. Smaller throttle bodies cause increased air velocity at low RPM...this coupled with fuel injection system provides a better mix of air and atomized fuel at low RPMs - more torque. This is exactly what you need just putt-ing around town in a "civilized" fashion. But if you want a fast bike....well... the 919 just doesn't cut the mustard.

So, if you want a bike that's comfortable, has good low-rpm torque and is fun to ride, then the 919 is the bike for you. But if you want the same good features of the 919 , but with 50% more power and torque, then you need a 919T.

The 919T is a "stealth bike" - kind of like the saying "Walk softly and carry a big stick". The turbo is mounted up where the airbox used to be, and can't be seen unless you bend over and really look closely. The bike looks stock from 15 ft. away.

People say that turbo bikes are hard to ride - they're scary and have explosive power. We've all seen the internet videos of the Yamaha R1 Turbo - the rider opens the throttle, the revs come up, and nothing much happens until around 8000 rpm when the turbo spools up, and up comes the front wheel. This is because that particular turbo system is built for maximum power - the turbo is just too big and has a lot of turbo lag. Great for top-end HP, but not very "rideable".

The 919T is properly designed - there is no explosive power. You open the throttle, boost comes up right away, then you think "...you know what...I'm going pretty fast here!". It just feels like the same bike with a bigger engine.

Check the "Performance Specs" page, it has a HP and TQ graphs that show what a turbo can do for you. The 919T has more HP and Torque than a CBR1000RR up to 9000 RPM, and at 7000 rpm, the 919T is making 17 HP and 14 lb/ft torque more than the 1000RR!
So Why A 919T ?

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post #14 of 23 Old 08-11-2014, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Horsepower / Torque - Simple - the goal was a 50% increase in Horsepower and 50% increase in Torque.

Good, Usable Power - The system was designed to provide good mid-range power, between 3000 and 7000 rpm, so spinning the motor to 9500 rpm isn't necessary to get some decent power. Sure, you could use a larger turbo such as a Garrett GT-20 to get more high-rpm power, but then you would have a lot of turbo lag and no low rpm grunt. Mid-range torque is what's really needed around town, so that's what the system is designed for. You won't win any top horsepower bragging contests with CBR1000RR guys, but your torque numbers will embarrass them.

Fuel - Pump gas compatible.

Easy To Install - Installation takes about 6-8 hours.

Off-The-Shelf Kit - All parts are included

Low Cost - $2400 USD - this does not include mufflers or gauges, which are available separately.

Tuneable - We recommend dyno tuning, which will optimize the settings on the Gen3 ECU for your altitude and conditions. The Gen3 is easy to tune using pushbuttons, and does not require a laptop or interface device.

Appearance - We like a nice clean approach, so we built the system to use the stock exhaust header, and we mounted the turbo where the airbox used to reside. There are other mounting locations we considered - directly off the head up in front of the engine, or back where the mufflers are. We initially considered the "front of the engine" location, but ditched that idea because that would require a new heavy-duty header to hold the turbo. These need to be heavy stainless or they will crack. Also we didn't think it looked very good, kind of "added-on", and the turbo was right out there in the weather. Same with the muffler location, tubes were too long, and it looked like an after-thought. Our system took some head-scratching but it came out well, and looks "integrated". Yup that's the word I was looking for - "Integrated". Sure, the longer exhaust tubes will delay turbo spooling a few more milliseconds at low RPMs, but it looks much better.
http://web.archive.org/web/201006160...om/gpage2.html

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post #15 of 23 Old 08-11-2014, 11:48 PM
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Quote:
When the kit was under development, we started with a Garrett GT-1544 turbo which, on paper, looked like the right one. That turbo worked OK, but just didn't meet the HP and torque goals of a 50% increase, so we started over and developed the kit with the GT-1548 turbo. Much better!

The 919T with the GT-1548 turbo makes more HP than a CBR1000RR up to 9500 RPM, where the 919T's power starts dropping off. At 9500 RPM, the turbo is still making 7 psi boost, so the airflow restriction is in the 919's intake ports, throttle bodies and cams. Head porting, bigger valves and bigger throttle bodies would certainly help airflow and power above 9500 rpm. If you wanted to spin the motor over 9500 rpm, you would also need better rods and rod bolts, and higher pressure valvesprings. But, the objective was to develop a "bolt-on" kit that didn't require a lot of engine mods.

The smaller GT-1544 turbo works OK, but the GT-1548 turbo, which has a bigger compressor wheel and housing, makes more power. Both start making boost at 4000 rpm, but the GT-1548 flows more air at 7 PSI, so you have much more power from 5000 rpm on up, with no difference in turbo lag or ride-ability. Peak horsepower is 140 HP at 9000 rpm, and peak torque is 85 lb/ft at 8000 rpm, compared to 94/58 for the stock bike. This was on a Dynojet corrected for Denver's altitude.

The 919T makes quite a bit more power and torque than the CBR1000RR in the midrange, which is just where you need it. At 7000 rpm, the 919T is making 17 HP and 14 lb/ft torque more than the CBR1000RR.

DISCLAIMER: This turbo system does not include a "Get Out Of Jail Free" Card!!


919hpgraph.jpg

919tqgraph.jpg





1/4 Mile Testing


We took our development bike up to Bandimere Speedway in Denver for 1/4 mile testing. The best run of three runs that day was 11.08 @ 129.04. Using the NHRA correction factor for Bandimere's altitude of 5814 ft. (correction factor ET=.9405, MPH= 1.0563), we got a corrected time/speed of 10.42 @ 136.30. The times for a stock bike are 11.7 @ 121.


The E.T. indicates that our rider did not get a good launch, but the top speed indicates the bike is making good horsepower.
Not too bad.
Performance Specs

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post #16 of 23 Old 08-11-2014, 11:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmb View Post

That's just wrong on so many levels...
Pv got a sense of humor, they're not real jabs at him

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- '01 RC51 SP1 (Sold)
- '03 919

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post #17 of 23 Old 08-11-2014, 11:49 PM
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Quote:
Q. What's the price for the 919T system?

A: $2400 for the complete system, not including a modified left muffler or modified crank trigger for ignition retard.



Q. Will the 919T system really produce 50% more horsepower and torque?

A. Oh yeah!



Q. Can I install the system myself?

A. If you have metric tools and a bit of mechanical ability, you will not have any problems installing ths system.



Q. Will the system damage my engine?

A. If the system is properly installed, you adjust the wastegate to 7 psi max, you use good oil and high octane gas, and adjust the Air/Fuel mixture as specified in the instruction manual, the turbo system will not damage your engine.



Q. What is the Max Boost with your 919T system?

A. The system will produce enough boost to severly damage your engine ( and ruin your day). The 919's pistons will handle about 10 psi for short periods of time if properly tuned with ignition retard. BUT, perfect tune is not always the case, horsepower is addicting, and more is not always better. We recommend that the wastegate be adjusted to 7 psi max.



Q. I heard that if I live at a higher altitude, I can adjust the boost up to compensate for altitude, is that right?

A. Yes, that is correct. Mechanical Boost Gauges reference manifold pressure vs. atmospheric pressure and show you the difference. The boost gauge doesn't know it's at 6000 ft (here in Colorado for example) where barometric pressure is 24 in/hg. Barometric pressure is 30 in/hg at sea level. So a little rough math shows that air pressure at 6000 ft is really about 11.7 psi instead of 14.7 psi at sea level. So, to get the same boost as a sea-level bike, we can adjust the wastegate to 10 psi. So, for every 2000 ft of elevation gain above sea level, you can increase boost by 1 psi. So, your buddy with the CBR1000 has 150 HP at sea level only has 120 HP here in Colorado. If you adjust the wastegate to 10 PSI, you are making 140 hp here.
Frequently Asked Questions

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post #18 of 23 Old 08-11-2014, 11:50 PM
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Quote:
I know you folks are looking for ways to improve you 919's performance and sound, maybe "personalize" your bike a bit - that's why you're here.

Also, some of you have already purchased an aftermarket muffler set and maybe an aftermarket tuner and still need more power. The stock 919 mufflers are very restrictive, so new free-flowing mufflers help a lot. Also, the tuner will help.

But new mufflers are $600 and the Tuner is $400 or so, and you get 10-15 more HP for $1000. But that's about the limit for a 919, you can't do much else without head porting and bigger cams, or Nitrous.

We designed the 919T to use the stock (looking) mufflers. The left muffler has been "re-baffled" to provide no back-pressure which lets the turbo breathe and spool up quickly. So, if you buy one of our systems and you already have the new exhaust and tuner, you really won't need them anymore. You can just sell them to someone else and get some of your money back, if you want.

The modified 919 muffler gives the 919T an exhaust note that is just incredible. If you heard it, you would buy the system just for the sound! It makes a hollow rumbling sound at idle, and throughout the rev range all sorts of different great sounds and ends up at 9500 rpm with a very business-like shrieking sound.

However, there are some folks out there that have spent good money on their new mufflers and really want like to keep them. So, we will be working with our customers to develop different turbo out-pipes to match the popular aftermarket muffler configurations. Jardine makes a nice dual slip-on setup and Two Brothers makes a nice setup also.

One of our first customers, J.G., really wanted to use his Jardine mufflers on the bike, so we built this pipe as a prototype for him, and made jigs so we could reproduce it. We were concerned that the exhaust sound would go straight out the left muffler, so we built a "sound diverter" in the "Y" section, and now both sides sound equal. The Jardines sound very mellow on there, and flow plenty of air. It's a lot more work to make the dual exhaust pipe (notice how it dips down to get around the rectifier, we have a short piece of heat wrap for that) and it's more expensive to coat it, so this will be an extra-cost option. J.G. wanted matte black/aluminum so the pipe is not noticeable, so we made it like that for him. There's also a black heat shield on the front portion of the pipe. We'll add pictures later of the duals on the bike.
Let's Talk Exhaust

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post #19 of 23 Old 08-11-2014, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Engine



The 919T System can be used on a stock engine. The stock compression ratio is 10.8:1, which is safe when boost is limited to 7 PSI and Premium fuel is used.



Ignition Retard : We are currently researching a stand-alone boost sensitive ignition retard system, but that is not currently available. Powercommander makes a Powercommander 3/Ignition Module/Hub/MAP Sensor combination that will replace our Gen3 ECU and will retard timing under boost and provide fuel enrichment, but the cost is $800+ total, so we're working on a more cost-effective alternative. We have modified crank trigger pickup coils available that replace your stock unit. This installs easily and retards ignition timing 4 degrees all the time. Four degrees is not a noticeable difference under normal conditions, but will provide the necessary ignition retard at 7 psi boost.



Pistons - We worked with JE Pistons to develop a custom forged 919T piston, please see the "Upgrades" page.



Head Studs - We worked with ARP to get some serious head studs for the 919T, please see the "Upgrades" page.



Rod Bolts - The 919 rods are the same as the 900RR rods and are pretty stout. But we are working with ARP on rod bolts for the 919T also, just to be safe. These can be changed from the bottom without taking off the head.





Drivetrain



Clutch - If you're going to be racing, we recommend the EBC or Barnett SRC Clutch Kit - includes new friction disks, Kevlar clutch discs and stonger springs.



Chain - The stock chain is a standard 530 chain, for longer life we recommend a high-performance O-ringed 530 chain.


Sprocket Sets - The 919 is set up with relatively short gearing. If you want lower revs on the highway, we recommend that you use a front sprocket that is 1 tooth larger. We stock these or they can be purchased from Sprocket Specialists. If you change sprockets, then the speedometer will be incorrect. You can just remember the difference, or get an electronic speedometer correction device, such as the Speedo Healer.
Engine/Drivetrain

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post #20 of 23 Old 08-11-2014, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Forged 10.25:1 Pistons


We worked with JE Pistons to develop a set of 919T custom pistons. The pistons are forged aluminum, have a thicker tool-steel wristpin, and we designed them with a 3 cc dish which gives a slightly lower compression ratio of 10.25:1. The bore size was increased from 71.0 mm to 71.25 mm. As you can tell by the picture, these pistons are just gorgeous, and indestructible.

10 mm Head Studs

We worked with ARP to select a set of super-duty 10mm head studs, rated at 190,000 psi pulling strength. These are bulletproof, use ground washers, rolled threads, and compact 12-point 12 mm nuts.

These are very similar to the head studs used on the 2.0-liter Toyota MR2 Turbo, and if they are good enough for a 250 HP Toyota, they should be OK on a 919T!

We installed these for testing by drilling and tapping the upper 919 cases from 9mm x 1.25 threads to 10mm x 1.25 threads. We screwed the stud all the way into the case, and put the head on after enlarging the head bolt holes to 10.5 mm. We lubed the stud threads and washer with ARP moly lube and started torquing.

We got to 100 lb/ft and nothing bad had happened yet! The threads didn't pull out of the aluminum case, the stud didn't stretch or break, and the nut didn't break. The stock bolts are 9mm torqued to 35 lb/ft, and these are 10mm torqued to 50 lb/ft. No problems with blown head gaskets.

Also, since the studs are threaded all the way down into the aluminum case, there's good thread engagement there, and no twisting motion of the threads when torquing, that is all done on the hardened steel stud. So, the threads won't pull out of the cases from overtorquing and sheering action.
Honda 919 Turbo

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post #21 of 23 Old 08-11-2014, 11:53 PM
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Quote:
Gauge Options


When we build a turbo car or motorcycle, we like to include a Boost Gauge and an Air/Fuel (A/F) mixture gauge. The Boost Gauge is for testing and monitoring, but also it's cool to know what's going on with the turbo. Is there an air leak? Is the wastegate adjusted correctly? At which RPM does the turbo start making boost? Is boost constant or fluctuating? But it's also fun to watch. Under boost conditions like Open Road Racing, you want to monitor A/F for possible lean conditions. When you're riding around, A/F is constantly changing, but on the dyno or on the open road, you can watch it in a near-steady state. We like K&N's Air Fuel Monitor. There are others on the market, but we feel the K&N’s display is the best out there. Some gauges will drive you crazy at night with the LEDs flipping around the face of the gauge, or the display is hard to read, but K&N's display is not bothersome and is very informative and easy to read at a glance. However, the K&N A/F gauge is pricey at around $140 list. So, there needs to be some alternatives.

If you have a gauge on one side of the factory gauge pod, then it would look goofy to not have another matching gauge on the other side. We will be glad to provide a matching left/right set of gauge brackets that look nice and you can put whatever 2 1/16" gauge you want in there. Or we can provide just the vacuum/boost gauge and a matching oil pressure gauge. We like the Autometer 2 1/16" Z-Series gauges, they look and work great, have a black face and 270 degree sweep. They also sort of match the K&N A/F monitor. But if you don't want to use the K&N gauge, the set of Autometer Sport Compact Gauges (Boost #3301 and A/F #3375 {$60} or Oil #3321) have an aluminum bezel and more closely match the look of the factory gauges. So, you can mix/match however you like. Also, we like the Autometer Gauge cups which cover the bottom of the gauges for a cleaner look. These come in satin black steel or carbon fiber. Of course, we like the carbon fiber cups ($23 more each) better, but you can pick which one you want. There are some pictures below.

So, the "Optional Gauge Package" is more ala carte, these items are priced separately and you can mix and match if you want, and we can also sell you the O2 Sensor and wiring harness if needed. Our bike has the Boost Gauge on the left, K&N A/F Monitor on the right and Carbon Fiber cups, and it looks great. We always get a lot of compliments there. People spot the gauges first, then they see the Boost Gauge, and they say "Oh!". Then they lean over and look at the engine and find the turbo system, then they really start looking at the entire bike and pointing out details.
Gauge Options

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post #22 of 23 Old 08-11-2014, 11:53 PM
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Quote:
Turbocharger Parts:

Garrett GT-1548 Turbo

Turbocharger Mounting Bracket

Wastegate Mounting Bracket

Wastegate Adjustment Rod



Exhaust Parts:

Turbo Inlet Pipe

Turbo Inlet Pipe Bottom Clamp

Turbo Outlet Pipe

Turbo Outlet Pipe Heat Shield

Modified Stock Left Muffler - 2" Inlet (Priced seperately)

Right Muffler Dummy Exhaust Pipe


Intake Parts:

Air Box - Custom CNC'ed and welded
Air intake turbo hoses



Oil System Parts:

Oil Pressure Hose with Fittings and Adapters

Oil Drain Hoses with Fittings and Adapters

Oil Scavenge Pump and Bracket

Billet Oil Cap


Air System Parts:

Air Inlet Elbow

Air Filter Support Bracket

K&N Air Filter


Gauge Kit (Optional):

Autometer Vacuum/Boost Gauge - 2 1/16" or
Autometer Oil Pressure Gauge - 2 1/16" or
K&N Air Fuel Monitor Gauge with shim - 2 1/16"

Gauge Mount Brackets - 2 req'd

Bracket Bolts and Spacers - 2 req'd

Carbon Fiber Mounting Cups - 2 req'd or
Satin Black Steel Mounting Cups - 2 req'd


Electrical Parts:

Dobeck Gen3 ECU and Wiring Harness
Power Relay
Gauge Wiring Harnesses
Custom Battery Relocation Bracket

Miscellaneous Parts:

Brackets to support silver metal side covers
919T Parts List

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post #23 of 23 Old 08-12-2014, 02:10 AM
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Not the 919, but I like where the turbo was placed.


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