919 Suspension upgrades? - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 42 Old 05-07-2010, 02:11 PM Thread Starter
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919 Suspension upgrades?

Hey guys, I am looking to improve my suspension on my 03 919. My forks are non adjustable and my spring is OEM SHOWA. I would love to get a ohilns rear shock and maybe some new springs. Any opinions on what I should do? Any ideas welcome

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post #2 of 42 Old 05-07-2010, 04:20 PM
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I've only tried the Ohlins on the rear...so, I can't speak to the others. The Ohlins is infinitely better than stock. As far as the front, I can't help, as my 07 is adjustable, and seems to do OK...not fantastic. My GUESS would be it would be best to do some revalving to get truly better results. Springs are only part of equation...and not always the weak point in a given setup.

If you do try something different, it would be great if you had something concrete to compare it to...such as a timed course. Otherwise, you're just guessing whether one thing is better than another. I guarantee you that riding on wooden wheels at 60 mph would feel faster than riding on rubber wheels over the same course at 90 mph...see what I mean?

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post #3 of 42 Old 05-07-2010, 04:37 PM
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i just replaced seals on one of my 04+ adjustable forks and in the processes refilled both with 10wt maxima which is a lil thicker than what comes stock... that paired with an extra 25mm of fluid height provide a little stiffer ride and makes the front feel quite a bit more planted.

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post #4 of 42 Old 05-07-2010, 07:13 PM
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...There are a couple members here who are selling aftermarket fork springs, check the classified section.

I like my ohlins rear shock a lot, but If it hadn't come already installed on my bike when I bought it, I doubt I would spend a grand to get one. There are a number of cheaper alternatives that would be an improvement. Talk to Mtnceguy about what he's done.

Well, fire the engines! Spur this iron space-pony on!

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post #5 of 42 Old 05-07-2010, 09:35 PM
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What particular improvements are you looking for and what is your budget range ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajboulet View Post
Hey guys, I am looking to improve my suspension on my 03 919. My forks are non adjustable and my spring is OEM SHOWA. I would love to get a ohilns rear shock and maybe some new springs. Any opinions on what I should do? Any ideas welcome

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post #6 of 42 Old 05-08-2010, 05:56 AM
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i recently did the ohlins in the rear, and springs/oil up front. im pretty light (140ish) so i went with .85 springs and stock weight oil, just some nicer stuff. overall bike rides much better. it soaks up bumps in the road with out shaking the bike too much, turns stupid quick, and holds a line at high speeds with only two fingers on the throttle. overall, i think i spend around 1200 (i installed rear shock myself but brought my fork tubes to my local guy for spring install) and id say it was worth it so far. good luck with your quest

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post #7 of 42 Old 05-08-2010, 07:28 AM
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919 Suspension Improvement Ladder

Following is a suggested listing re the subject.


Front End Stages of Improvement:

1 Do nothing.
2 Make sure front end is straight and both sides squared up and parallel.
2 Set sag and adjust rebound adjustment as best possible.
3 Change fork oil to higher grade, not thicker, better quality.
4 Respring to suit your particulars, 919s being notoriously softly sprung.
5 Modify stock internal compression and rebound valving.
6 Fit aftermarket valves, be they Ohlins, Racetech or Traxxion
7 Fit aftermarket cartridges by Traxxion, one leg has external Compression adjustment, the other has external Rebound adjustment.
8 Graft on an upside down fork off another bike, likely an RC51. (some have put on 600 Honda SS front ends, but there seems to be way more interest in RC51 fronts on 919s than anything else on the basis of what I have seen so far on WT)

You might want to consider scrounging for 04 or later forks for the external adjustability they allow for, but it is not mandatory.

My 05 919 is Stage 6. (Racetechs)

Rear End Stages of Improvement.

I'll begin by stating that the 02s & 3s had cruelly hard springs, so unless you are a heavy weight or do nothing but two up riding, that rock hard spring is numero un to do something about.

1 Find a used 04 or later factory shock unit. It has a lighter spring, and some rebound adjustment. You can find buy these for way less than you will pay for an aftermarket rear spring alone. So, if you just want to do a spring change, buy a used 04 or later factory shock unit.

2 Find a used 04 or later factory shock and have it modified by experts. Whether just adding on a better external reservoir with compression adjustment, or going so far as revalving inside, it can be done, and I think it was zaq123 that had such a build done. You need to be very careful about not spending too much money on this approach though. Whoever it was that got it done, had it done for a very good price. Just found the thread for you.
Look for "here it is, my new-old 919 shock", last post 4/13/2010. It was zaq123. See what he got done. You could PM him for more info.

3 Find a used Penske or Ohlins rear unit.

4 Get a custom sprung and set up Penske or Ohlins rear unit.

5
A Craft a link addition to the factory swing arm and get a custom sprung and set up Penske or Ohlins unit.
B Swap in a another swing arm with a link arrangement and get a custom sprung and set up Penske or Ohlins unit. A few people have done this, I think they have used F3 parts or similar. (some have done this and used a F3 or similar shock as well)

Personally, I'm at Stage 4 with a Penske. I started with a two way, but later had it modified to three way. My Penske came with woefully inadequate low speed compression damping. The suspension builder had a used three way external reservoir handy, so that was incorporated when the shock was redone.

Some people have fitted a F3 shock to their 919. I deliberately did not put it in the above staging sequence, and will so no more on the matter and leave it to those that have done it and know something about it to say something if they want to.

Hopefully you find this of help.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ajboulet View Post
Hey guys, I am looking to improve my suspension on my 03 919. My forks are non adjustable and my spring is OEM SHOWA. I would love to get a ohilns rear shock and maybe some new springs. Any opinions on what I should do? Any ideas welcome

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post #8 of 42 Old 05-08-2010, 10:43 AM
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mcromo, that should be stickied.

Fantastic summation.

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post #9 of 42 Old 05-08-2010, 10:54 AM
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Thanks CuriousMike, but I'm not familiar with the term "stickied" you referred to.

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mcromo, that should be stickied.

Fantastic summation.

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post #10 of 42 Old 05-08-2010, 11:41 AM
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question... what is the stock weight fork oil... 10w?

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post #11 of 42 Old 05-08-2010, 11:46 AM
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Honda SS8 Fork Oil for 919 is 10 weight

Yes

Quote:
Originally Posted by nd4spdbh View Post
question... what is the stock weight fork oil... 10w?

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post #12 of 42 Old 05-08-2010, 11:50 AM
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Fork Oil Level as a Tuning Aid

I ended up at 30 mm above, so am in the same zone as you are.

The greater oil level helps steepen up the combined air/coiled metal overall spring rate curve nearer full compression.
The softer the coiled spring rate is, the greater the differential effect the air rate is.



Quote:
Originally Posted by nd4spdbh View Post
i just replaced seals on one of my 04+ adjustable forks and in the processes refilled both with 10wt maxima which is a lil thicker than what comes stock... that paired with an extra 25mm of fluid height provide a little stiffer ride and makes the front feel quite a bit more planted.

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post #13 of 42 Old 05-08-2010, 12:10 PM
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If it were me, I would hunt down an 04+ rear shock. Contact Zaq, and find out how/where it can be reworked. The end result might or not be quite as nice as an Ohlins, but it would be a big improvement for not a lot of money.

That would free up some money for a set of used 04+ forks. They are pretty decent just as they are.

I sold my Ohlins to Blackheart. My 04 rode very nice.

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post #14 of 42 Old 05-08-2010, 12:29 PM
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My F4i forks (that bolt directly in) made a Huge difference, cheap too.

All i did was bump up the rear spring collar two clicks and play around with the fork settings and it feels like a different bike.

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post #15 of 42 Old 05-08-2010, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian View Post
My F4i forks (that bolt directly in) made a Huge difference, cheap too.

All i did was bump up the rear spring collar two clicks and play around with the fork settings and it feels like a different bike.
the F4i forks look the same as the 04+ adjustable no?

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post #16 of 42 Old 05-08-2010, 12:58 PM
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+1 on the 04 shock over 02/03. For about $50 makes it SO much more pleasant.

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post #17 of 42 Old 05-08-2010, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryce919er View Post
+1 on the 04 shock over 02/03. For about $50 makes it SO much more pleasant.
the 02 / 03 must be pretty damn bad... cus my 04 bucks me around from time to time.

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post #18 of 42 Old 05-08-2010, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nd4spdbh View Post
the 02 / 03 must be pretty damn bad... cus my 04 bucks me around from time to time.
The 02/03 is horrible! I have mcromo44's 05 take off and it is way softer.

Spoiler:

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post #19 of 42 Old 05-08-2010, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nd4spdbh View Post
the F4i forks look the same as the 04+ adjustable no?
well they are adjustable just like the newer 919 forks but, you have to use a cbr f4i front fender and they make the bike faster cause they're from a CBR! (kidding)

seriously though I think they're the same, maybe a different spring but i'm not sure just another option for the thread starter

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post #20 of 42 Old 05-09-2010, 12:20 AM
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f4/f4i forks have compression damping adjustment the 919 does not, i fitted a set today, and though i am yet to do the fine adjusting i have noticed an improvement over harsher bumps.
I used a 10 w oil and put in .9 springs.
I have an ebay penske coming from the u.s and when that arrives i shall take the whole lot to a suspension guru to get it all valved etc and see the result.
i am expecting a more compliant ride, and both front and rear to satay more connected.
i do a lot of 2 up, so the other half should be more comfortable as well.
dave

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post #21 of 42 Old 05-09-2010, 10:49 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the suggestions guys I will let you know what I come up with. I am leaning towards switching out the front forks to something that I can adjust and get perhaps a ohlins rear.

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post #22 of 42 Old 05-10-2010, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davehirt View Post
f4/f4i forks have compression damping adjustment the 919 does not
You sure the 919 forks dont have comp damping?

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post #23 of 42 Old 05-10-2010, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
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You sure the 919 forks dont have comp damping?
positive.

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post #24 of 42 Old 05-10-2010, 07:21 AM
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Depends on the year. The factory forks on my '07 have comp damping.

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post #25 of 42 Old 05-10-2010, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
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Depends on the year. The factory forks on my '07 have comp damping.
negative

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post #26 of 42 Old 05-10-2010, 08:03 AM
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The 04+s have REBOUND damping.

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post #27 of 42 Old 05-10-2010, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zaq123 View Post
negative
Really? A 30-second google search on 2007 Honda 919 reveals about a half dozen websites that all say it has comp damping. Or I could just go to my garage and look.

Yep, there it is.

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post #28 of 42 Old 05-10-2010, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprintboy View Post
Really? A 30-second google search on 2007 Honda 919 reveals about a half dozen websites that all say it has comp damping. Or I could just go to my garage and look.

Yep, there it is.
o rly?!?!?! where is the setting for it?

can someone with an 07 verify?

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post #29 of 42 Old 05-10-2010, 10:02 AM
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...or you could go to the Honda website and see for yourself.

Honda Media Newsroom Release: 2007 Honda 919 Specifications

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post #30 of 42 Old 05-10-2010, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprintboy View Post
...or you could go to the Honda website and see for yourself.

Honda Media Newsroom Release: 2007 Honda 919 Specifications
I hate to disappoint you but 919 has no comp adj, sorry
they lied to you or they just act like an average dealer and have no idea what they are selling

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post #31 of 42 Old 05-10-2010, 11:10 AM
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Page 117 of my 04 owners manual talks about rebound adjustments, not a word on compression.

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post #32 of 42 Old 05-10-2010, 11:12 AM
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here is a layout for Showa RSU fork

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post #33 of 42 Old 05-10-2010, 12:17 PM
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The 07 forks have adjusters on the cap marked "TEN", which is short for "tension", which is crazy talk for rebound. No compression adjustment

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post #34 of 42 Old 05-10-2010, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdntridr View Post
The 07 forks have adjusters on the cap marked "TEN", which is short for "tension", which is crazy talk for rebound. No compression adjustment
could also be short for preload tension as you can spin the whole top with a 14mm wrench.

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post #35 of 42 Old 05-10-2010, 12:54 PM Thread Starter
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Hey guys would you suggest going with a Honda F4 forks, they are adjustable but I don't know if there are any requirements on weight. Can the forks from that model handle the weight of a honda 919. not sure if its important or not. Or will they even fit on the tripple trees of a honda 919? Any ideas

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post #36 of 42 Old 05-10-2010, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajboulet View Post
Hey guys would you suggest going with a Honda F4 forks, they are adjustable but I don't know if there are any requirements on weight. Can the forks from that model handle the weight of a honda 919. not sure if its important or not. Or will they even fit on the tripple trees of a honda 919? Any ideas
see above picture of Zaq123's bike... if im not mistaken those are F4i forks and they are a direct bolt up to the stock triple trees and calipers... just gotta use the F4i front fender. Id imagine that the spring is similar to the stock 919 or slightly stiffer cus it comes off a sport bike vs standard.

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post #37 of 42 Old 05-10-2010, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian View Post
My F4i forks (that bolt directly in) made a Huge difference, cheap too.

All i did was bump up the rear spring collar two clicks and play around with the fork settings and it feels like a different bike.
did you miss the "bolt directly in" part?

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post #38 of 42 Old 05-11-2010, 09:37 AM
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Hey Aj, contrary to the tone in this thread we're not assholes around here just ball busters. snipers a cool guy with a smart ass streak and the rest of the guys around here i've found pretty informative.

basically some f4i forks will bolt right up with no modification besides a new front fender form a f4i. Your triples/ brakes everything works with them and its a nice affordable easy and funcional upgrade.

i just thought if i was a new member and saw all this hen peckin I might be like 'WTF' but stick around, lots of good info and some very knowledgable folks around here. Plus you can get a deal every now and agian on some parts in the classified section.

(theres my PR work for WT lol)

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post #39 of 42 Old 05-11-2010, 02:01 PM
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how dare you Brian ! i'm an asshole !

there. set the record straight.

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post #40 of 42 Old 05-11-2010, 06:44 PM
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We know man, oh we know...

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