919 power commander - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 44 Old 02-29-2012, 05:17 AM Thread Starter
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919 power commander

Just want to put out a feeler concerning power commanders; I have a 2002 919 that I've been working on and would like to know if anyone knows of a tuner better suited for this bike than the pcIII power commander.

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post #2 of 44 Old 02-29-2012, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devondunit View Post
Just want to put out a feeler concerning power commanders; I have a 2002 919 that I've been working on and would like to know if anyone knows of a tuner better suited for this bike than the pcIII power commander.
I'm not sure what you mean by "better suited", seeing as a PCIII is a very effective unit on a 919.
I think you'd be hard pressed to find anything "better" than a PCIII for a 919, but I will admit that the PC is the only device I have used.
There is said to be some other good stuff out there, but whether those have listings for 919s is another story.
Bazazz is said to be good, and can be additionally featured with things like a quick shifter.

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post #3 of 44 Old 02-29-2012, 06:55 AM
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I think that this is related to this thread

https://www.wristtwisters.com/forums/...nce-29268.html

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post #4 of 44 Old 02-29-2012, 08:34 AM
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welcome devon! the pcIII is actually pretty good. the key is to find a good tuner who knows what they're doing in the first place. care to fill us in the issue you're having with the pcIII? we can likely fix it for ya.

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post #5 of 44 Old 02-29-2012, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by ganktor View Post
I think that this is related to this thread

https://www.wristtwisters.com/f322/do...nce-29268.html

i was thinking the same thing!

DEV - DEVONDUNIT.....????

COINCIDENCE???
first post..i'm not buying it

calling goog3le...same guy???

'04 Honda 919, Candy apple red met., 17/44t sprockets,f-16 windscreen,delkevic ss exhaust,Tharbars,givi engine bars, billet alum. led turns w/ running lights,red adj.levers from china, bar end mirrors,grip heaters,adj. foot peg brackets,adj. bar risers,dunlop Q2(that are better than your pp 2ct,lol)bike wired for gps and phone charger
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post #6 of 44 Old 02-29-2012, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by drewvir View Post
i was thinking the same thing!

DEV - DEVONDUNIT.....????

COINCIDENCE???
first post..i'm not buying it

calling goog3le...same guy???
Different IP's.

Devondunit, we need pics of your bike! I like that orange!

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post #7 of 44 Old 02-29-2012, 12:32 PM
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you could try the power commander V. I called dynojet one day. They said that you could put the pcV on a 919. They just don't offically endorse it since the 919 is no longer being manufactured. Then you just use a 919 map.

or.....

If you're really good, or have enough money, you could install an o2 sensor into the exhaust and get the auto tune module. That would be sweet. It adjusts everything on the fly.

Had I known this before i bought my PCIII new, I would have been the guinea pig

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post #8 of 44 Old 02-29-2012, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boogunoogun View Post
you could try the power commander V. I called dynojet one day. They said that you could put the pcV on a 919. They just don't offically endorse it since the 919 is no longer being manufactured. Then you just use a 919 map.

or.....

If you're really good, or have enough money, you could install an o2 sensor into the exhaust and get the auto tune module. That would be sweet. It adjusts everything on the fly.

Had I known this before i bought my PCIII new, I would have been the guinea pig
Exhaust O2 feedback loop driven Autotune will never replace high performance mapping by a tuner, because it is counter to it.
So there is a distinct choice to be made, and both are valid depending on one's intent.
Autotune is a great device if all you want is a nominal 14:1 right across the board while also being environmentally sensitive by reduced unburned HydroCarbons and CO(carbon monoxide), while sacrificing some potential torque and power.
I'd also think that an O2 sensor from some other Honda could fairly easily be grafted to the header of a 919, and allow a PC V to do Autotune on a 919, should anyone want to do that. It would be a good question to put to Power Commander.

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post #9 of 44 Old 02-29-2012, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
Exhaust O2 feedback loop driven Autotune will never replace high performance mapping by a tuner, because it is counter to it.
So there is a distinct choice to be made, and both are valid depending on one's intent.
Autotune is a great device if all you want is a nominal 14:1 right across the board while also being environmentally sensitive by reduced unburned HydroCarbons and CO(carbon monoxide), while sacrificing some potential torque and power.
I'd also think that an O2 sensor from some other Honda could fairly easily be grafted to the header of a 919, and allow a PC V to do Autotune on a 919, should anyone want to do that. It would be a good question to put to Power Commander.

Not necessarily true. You can have it that way. Like set it and forget it. But if you want to have pre set settings in certain rmps, or throttle position, or even certain gears you can do that. (for the gears you would need the quick shift kit just so it knows what gear you are in.)

Thats what I've been told. maybe I'm wrong.

edit you can also set auto tune to kick in only when the engine is above certain temperatures

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post #10 of 44 Old 02-29-2012, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by boogunoogun View Post
Not necessarily true. You can have it that way. Like set it and forget it. But if you want to have pre set settings in certain rmps, or throttle position, or even certain gears you can do that. (for the gears you would need the quick shift kit just so it knows what gear you are in.)

Thats what I've been told. maybe I'm wrong.

edit you can also set auto tune to kick in only when the engine is above certain temperatures
I don't know these devices, but have heard they do come with user adjustability etc, and what you note above sounds consistent with all that.
But what does remain is this, you can not get maximized torque across the curve from Autotune, and user adjustments to the automated AFs than can be applied, are a poor substitute to a whiz tuner and are incapable of yielding the results of a whiz tuner.
True, few will want the "ideal map" for track day type use, but that is not the issue.

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post #11 of 44 Old 03-01-2012, 12:18 PM Thread Starter
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image-3415531670.jpg

I don't have any more pics right now and the rear end is all torn out because I'm powder coating the swing arm currently but I definitely plan on getting some pics out when it's done, I'm doing powder on a lot of parts including engine covers plus ceramic on headers (off a cbr1000) and changing the orange on my boz pipe to a powder Halloween orange instead of the heat resistant hemi orange paint that's on it.

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post #12 of 44 Old 03-01-2012, 12:20 PM Thread Starter
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As far as the tuner goes I havnt bought one yet but am shopping, I'd like to make sure that I make the right choice the first time.

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post #13 of 44 Old 03-01-2012, 01:06 PM
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Nice! One question...do you ever touch down the peg on the right side or the pipe? I'm thining about a similar location for my side pipe, but it's a DanMoto JISU carbon trioval design. Figure I can angle the flat part for max clearence... I' diggin the orange! Same color braided lines would look sick!

-Jonny

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post #14 of 44 Old 03-01-2012, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonny View Post
Nice! One question...do you ever touch down the peg on the right side or the pipe? I'm thining about a similar location for my side pipe, but it's a DanMoto JISU carbon trioval design. Figure I can angle the flat part for max clearence... I' diggin the orange! Same color braided lines would look sick!

-Jonny
I've often wondered about some of the side mount conversions I've seen here, in terms of grinding out the piping that is.
There's a number running them, someone will surely chime in and pass on their experience in this regard.

A stock suspended 919 can very easily grind the pegs with the feelers off.
IF you do track days, and are stock suspended (o4 and later in particular) and have some level of proficiency, you'll be folding your pegs routinely and looking for a way to keep your boots from getting chewed to bits.

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post #15 of 44 Old 03-01-2012, 01:38 PM
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Yeah, the guys at Maxim Honda in Allen tell me about a guy who brought a 919 in to trade. He'd ground the pegs to a sharp point at the ends by dragging them on the ground. Hell, I cut 1/3 off the end of my GSXR pegs back when I raced cause they kept touching down, but I'm trying to keep the "crazy" out of my street riding though, so the peg feelers stay on.

-Jonny

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post #16 of 44 Old 03-01-2012, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonny View Post
Nice! One question...do you ever touch down the peg on the right side or the pipe? I'm thining about a similar location for my side pipe, but it's a DanMoto JISU carbon trioval design. Figure I can angle the flat part for max clearence... I' diggin the orange! Same color braided lines would look sick!

-Jonny
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
I've often wondered about some of the side mount conversions I've seen here, in terms of grinding out the piping that is.
There's a number running them, someone will surely chime in and pass on their experience in this regard.

A stock suspended 919 can very easily grind the pegs with the feelers off.
IF you do track days, and are stock suspended (o4 and later in particular) and have some level of proficiency, you'll be folding your pegs routinely and looking for a way to keep your boots from getting chewed to bits.
I'm no crazy rider, but I've touched down pegs on both sides and never got close to my setup.

<<<<< see avatar pic.....

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post #17 of 44 Old 03-01-2012, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by g00gl3it View Post
I'm no crazy rider, but I've touched down pegs on both sides and never got close to my setup.

<<<<< see avatar pic.....

I've ridden with a 919 owner that touched down his feelers followed by his bar ends and his OEM exhaust.

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post #18 of 44 Old 03-01-2012, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by LDH View Post
I've ridden with a 919 owner that touched down his feelers followed by his bar ends and his OEM exhaust.
haha, and then helmet, shoulder, knees, elbows and face?

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post #19 of 44 Old 03-01-2012, 02:01 PM
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yea pretty much

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post #20 of 44 Old 03-01-2012, 02:02 PM
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Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by LDH View Post
I've ridden with a 919 owner that touched down his feelers followed by his bar ends and his OEM exhaust.
That DOES conjure up a certain image ....................

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post #21 of 44 Old 03-01-2012, 03:03 PM Thread Starter
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I do hit pegs once and awhile but never my pipe, the cbr 1000 rr headers put it at a good spot, I had to shorten the end and put in an elbow from the 919 stock set to get the angle but it's pretty easy since you can rotate the elbow then tighten the clamp where you want it

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post #22 of 44 Old 03-01-2012, 03:07 PM Thread Starter
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Love the braided lines suggestion

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post #23 of 44 Old 03-01-2012, 03:14 PM Thread Starter
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It seems like there should be a source out there for used power commanders, isn't there someone out there ripping them out of the wrecked motorcycles and reselling them?..... cheap.....

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post #24 of 44 Old 03-01-2012, 03:21 PM
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You can get them new for $250... How much cheaper do they need to be?

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post #25 of 44 Old 03-01-2012, 03:26 PM
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You can get them new for $250... How much cheaper do they need to be?
-$249.

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post #26 of 44 Old 03-01-2012, 03:26 PM
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ok $249

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post #27 of 44 Old 03-01-2012, 04:14 PM Thread Starter
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Point taken, always looking for that sweet deal

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post #28 of 44 Old 03-01-2012, 04:40 PM
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You can get them new for $250... How much cheaper do they need to be?
how about an ohlins then for $450?

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post #29 of 44 Old 03-01-2012, 05:07 PM
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how about an ohlins then for $450?
Who do you think you are? g00gl3it?

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post #30 of 44 Old 03-01-2012, 07:05 PM
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Who do you think you are? g00gl3it?
Yeah, c'mon, get real.....

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post #31 of 44 Old 03-01-2012, 08:05 PM
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......I had to buy a used set of SATO rearsets on mine....and raised them up and back.....made a big difference.

As far as the PCIII goes..... I worked for a good tuner for a winter tuning bikes....he worked with groups of cells. So in other words.....you could have the baddest ass box out there with 3,000 tuning cells to mess with.....and NO dyno tuner is going to burn up your bike on the Dyno by doing 200 runs.

The closest by far Ive seen......are the DynoJet Tuning centers that can 'self-tune' your PCIII directly....and then the guy running the show making a couple 'personal' tweaks after the fact.

Because of working with this tuner.....I still had connections to get my 919 tuned through him...... After working through several runs.....we both came to the conclusion that my 919 ran awesome without the PCIII. This was because of my mid-pipe & canister selection.

Your results may vary, but dont expect massive HP improvements.

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post #32 of 44 Old 03-01-2012, 08:06 PM
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.......Im back..........

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post #33 of 44 Old 03-01-2012, 08:11 PM
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post #34 of 44 Old 03-01-2012, 08:57 PM
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artic, welcome back!

btw, track and street are 2 different things. did you notice any difference between the two while on/off the pcIII?

i haven't had a chance to get on the track yet, but i noticed a difference on the street and for me it was worthwhile. plus the pcIII was free to me so.

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post #35 of 44 Old 03-01-2012, 11:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctic954 View Post
...we both came to the conclusion that my 919 ran awesome without the PCIII.
Ouch!


Quote:
This was because of my mid-pipe & canister selection.
Disagree. JMO. Too many variables to point to some black magic pipe bend(s).

Quote:
Your results may vary, but dont expect massive HP improvements.
Thank You. Words of wisdom.

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post #36 of 44 Old 03-04-2012, 09:35 AM
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I have a pcv being put on my Harley. The only drawback is it's a piggyback type,intercepts the signal going to the ecu and adjusts it,instead of a reflash.
It has many options for purchase. I really like the switch that gives you the option of 2 tunes. One rich for ripping power and another tune that's leaner for highway fuel economy.
Auto tune is a great idea however I think a well written tune by a competent tuner will show more gains.
Jmo

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post #37 of 44 Old 03-04-2012, 10:43 AM
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Actually the Autotune module is amazing. I did a comparison test of a custom map that I made on the dyno versus what the Autotune could do and the end result was a new map that was in most cases within 1 value or the exact same value as the original map.

It can be used in a closed loop system to do real time adustments all the time, but I strongly recommend against this. It is much better to use the Autotune to create a map then remove the module from the PCV. This way you are not constantly pulling down current to heat the 02 sensor nor do you have to worry about degradation of the sensor causing mapping errors as the more the sensor degrades the more your mapping is going to be off.

I wrote the results of my findings into this article
ROGUE RACING CBR1000RR PC-V Page

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post #38 of 44 Old 03-05-2012, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LDH View Post
Actually the Autotune module is amazing. I did a comparison test of a custom map that I made on the dyno versus what the Autotune could do and the end result was a new map that was in most cases within 1 value or the exact same value as the original map.

It can be used in a closed loop system to do real time adustments all the time, but I strongly recommend against this. It is much better to use the Autotune to create a map then remove the module from the PCV. This way you are not constantly pulling down current to heat the 02 sensor nor do you have to worry about degradation of the sensor causing mapping errors as the more the sensor degrades the more your mapping is going to be off.

I wrote the results of my findings into this article
ROGUE RACING CBR1000RR PC-V Page
Did you use your know how to instruct the Autotune to target certain A/Fs throughout the overall map area, or did you just let it loose on its own ?
I know very little about the V but I've heard you can somehow instruct it to target A/Fs.

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post #39 of 44 Old 03-05-2012, 09:46 AM
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It comes preset with various target A/F ratios throughout the entire cell range.

Obviously I have my own standards I wanted to apply so I altered them to match the original target mapping I had done on the dyno.

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post #40 of 44 Old 03-05-2012, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LDH View Post
It comes preset with various target A/F ratios throughout the entire cell range.

Obviously I have my own standards I wanted to apply so I altered them to match the original target mapping I had done on the dyno.
Pretty much what I figured I'd hear back.
Also.
I see your experiment as being a comparison of your dyno results to what Autotune would come up with, on the basis of already determined A/Fs across the map being used by Autotune as it went about doing its thing.
But this is not to say, nor did you intend to suggest, that simply plugging in Autotune would yield the same results as experienced and skillful dyno based mapping would.
I guess at the end of the day, Autotune will do a fine job for most, but there is still a place for good custom mapping, especially on a race bike or any bike without and oxygen sensor.

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