919 Performance Gain Modifications - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 43 Old 08-16-2010, 09:24 PM Thread Starter
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919 Performance Gain Modifications

Hey Guys,
Sorry if this is a repost but I didn't want to wake the dead.

So my 919 is making the famous smell and I'm wondering what else I can do for performance mods. In order to get rid of the smell I was thinking about smashing out the cat. I've already ordered the block off plates so I can ditch the PAIR system and I did the baffelectomy. I was thinking about going and getting a K&N filter but I figured if I'm going to smash out the cat and put in a K&N I should get a PCIII and have the bike dyno'd.

So I'm planning on getting a PCIII when it's in the budget but I'm wondering what I can/should do in the meantime? These are my thought and I'm wondering what order they should be in.

PAIR removal
PCIII
K&N
Smash out Cat
Intake restrictor plates (does the 919 have the plates like the FZ1 etc?)
Airbox modification (does it screw up intake airflow?)

Thoughts/ideas/suggestions?

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post #2 of 43 Old 08-16-2010, 09:45 PM
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Search Flapper Mod for a free/cheap air box mod.
PCIII is only way to lean out the mix to help with "the stink"
K&N is not worth it, minimal if any gains
PAIR removal helps with exhaust popping on decel
No cat will free up exhaust but might not be any gain to it.

"Grip it and Rip it!"
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post #3 of 43 Old 08-16-2010, 09:46 PM
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So I guess what I'm saying is skip the K&N and CAT and get a PCIII.

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post #4 of 43 Old 08-16-2010, 10:28 PM
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  • actually removing the cat will probably increase the stink, as the cat tries to burn off alll unburnt stuff that leaves the motor. the cat hardly restricts the exhaust system if anything.
  • your only way to reduce the stink 100% is to go with a low mount single can setup...
  • any slipon exhaust is going to net very MINIMAL hp increases.
  • your best option is to grab a pc3 to make the bike run at a more optimal a/f ratio. to reduce stink, but provide the best option for performance "increase"
  • the best mod out of the box... the flapper mod, makes a lil more low end. and its free
  • The stock OEM filter is the best... you will make slightly less hp with a k&n vs the OEM filter
  • Pair plates will help with deceleration popping, but might increase the stink as there will be less oxygen for the cat to work with to burn off the unburned particles.

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post #5 of 43 Old 08-17-2010, 12:56 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys. Re: PAIR removal increasing smell, I've heard that eliminating the PAIR improves scavenging which helps with the smell.

Also, I figured that if I were to remove the PAIR and install a PCIII, is there any advantage to having a cat? I had a Suzuki Sidekick which used to make the same smell. I took off the pipe and smashed out the cat and the smell went away. Thought the same thing might work with the bike.

I know aftermarket pipes are a waste of money for the most part and I don't like the look of the single can on the 919 so I'll just stick with stock pipes with a bafflectomy.

Check, I'll skip the K&N. I ask because I definitely noticed a difference on my KLX650. Big power gain.

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post #6 of 43 Old 08-17-2010, 01:03 AM Thread Starter
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Jez... going to the garage to do the flapper mod now!

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post #7 of 43 Old 08-17-2010, 02:07 AM Thread Starter
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Don't notice a huge difference but it does seem smoother rolling on the throttle out of the corners.

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post #8 of 43 Old 08-17-2010, 03:17 AM
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dont ride with your nose near the exhaust problem solved.

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post #9 of 43 Old 08-17-2010, 03:54 AM
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I popped a set of Yoshis on mine last weekend - I'd have to say I was pleasantly surprised to find a noticeable extra zip in the mid-range on their maiden outing. A peep at the dyno curves they supplied with the instructions back this up.

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post #10 of 43 Old 08-17-2010, 06:07 AM
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I put a loevince system on mine and there was no cat in the Y pipe.The bulge was empty.

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post #11 of 43 Old 08-17-2010, 06:30 AM
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[QUOTE=Wallybanger;408528]
I know aftermarket pipes are a waste of money for the most part and I don't like the look of the single can on the 919 so I'll just stick with stock pipes with a bafflectomy.
QUOTE]

not true,
first-a loss of about 10 pounds
second-better sound than even the gutted cans

'04 Honda 919, Candy apple red met., 17/44t sprockets,f-16 windscreen,delkevic ss exhaust,Tharbars,givi engine bars, billet alum. led turns w/ running lights,red adj.levers from china, bar end mirrors,grip heaters,adj. foot peg brackets,adj. bar risers,dunlop Q2(that are better than your pp 2ct,lol)bike wired for gps and phone charger
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post #12 of 43 Old 08-17-2010, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllanB View Post
I popped a set of Yoshis on mine last weekend - I'd have to say I was pleasantly surprised to find a noticeable extra zip in the mid-range on their maiden outing. A peep at the dyno curves they supplied with the instructions back this up.
I have TRSs on mine and love them.

What map are you running ?

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post #13 of 43 Old 08-17-2010, 06:57 AM
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07 model, Baffle-ectomized and PCIII, flapper mod. PCIII was a noticeable improvement in performance. Use Shell 87 or Exxon 87 with a squirt of Fuel Power 60 (a cleaner) on almost every tankful. Just did the PAIR removal...but, that will only affect the off-throttle exhaust when engine braking. I DO have slight extensions on the exhaust, and I DO have a Buell Fly-Screen, and I DO tend to sit a bit more forward than most people, 6 ft. tall with a 33 inseam. Never had the stink...just lucky, I guess.

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post #14 of 43 Old 08-17-2010, 09:45 AM
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I've run baffelecomised cans with a PowCom. I've run a 2Bro without a PowCom. IMHO, given a choice between the two, absolutely no doubt, I'll take the 2Bro can.

I'll take my K+N also, thank you. I figure with the smallish valves and mild cams that the 919 has, It's not going to mess up the intake flow characteristics of the bike. I wouldn't put on on my 929 because that bike breathed so well, Honda used the HTEV to provide a little back pressure. I went as far as putting an 1 1/4" hole in the side of the snorkel on the 919. I don't know if the helped anything, but I know it didn't hurt.

Get a hollow F4I axle. Ditch the passenger heel guards. I usually don't carry tools. If you want to take it to the nth degree, run around with a half tank of gas. That'd save you another 15 pounds.

Get good tires. Get SS brake lines. Everyone always talks about the engine, but one thing that never gets discussed is how much time can be made up by a good man on the brakes. Get good on the brakes.

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post #15 of 43 Old 08-17-2010, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lofus View Post
I put a loevince system on mine and there was no cat in the Y pipe.The bulge was empty.
I found the same thing on my 07.

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post #16 of 43 Old 08-17-2010, 10:56 AM
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i think it might of been LDH, but dont quote me on that, that actually tested different air cleaners with the 919.... OEM made the best power.

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post #17 of 43 Old 08-17-2010, 12:06 PM
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It was Mike Corey at DynoJet that told me if you re-jet a 599, put in a 94 with a stock filter, 96 with a K+N. And you CAN quote me on that. I have a lot of respect for LDH, but ultamately, It's my decision.

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post #18 of 43 Old 08-17-2010, 12:40 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper View Post
It was Mike Corey at DynoJet that told me if you re-jet a 599, put in a 94 with a stock filter, 96 with a K+N. And you CAN quote me on that. I have a lot of respect for LDH, but ultamately, It's my decision.
Oranges and Apples... no point comparing a 599 with carbs to a FI 900....

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post #19 of 43 Old 08-17-2010, 12:57 PM
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I wrote an article after doing more testing than I care to mention over a period of several years the main idea is that in the vast majority of cases the K&N filters hurt the overall performance of the bike.

On a more positive side we have proven horsepower gains with BMC brand Race Filters on the 04-07 1000RR, but we lost horsepower with the K&N filters so go figure that one out...

The article can be read here: http://www.rc51.org/airfilt.htm

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post #20 of 43 Old 08-17-2010, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
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I have TRSs on mine and love them.

What map are you running ?
No map in mine - all stock, including filter and flapper apart from the Yoshi TRS mufflers - I presently have the quiet inserts in them and they are performing brilliantly. Really clean throttle response with no dips at all in the rev range. Better than I expected to be honest.

The quiet inserts are just that - surprising quiet, but with a nice tone once you give it some stick - consider them neighbor friendly.

I am ordering a spare set of quiet inserts to experiment with as they are too loud without them, I'll trim a bit off them until I have the volume I desire.

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post #21 of 43 Old 08-18-2010, 01:21 AM Thread Starter
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I'm seriously considering buying a MircoSquirt and replacing my entire EFI and Ignition system....

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post #22 of 43 Old 08-18-2010, 06:03 AM
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Quote:
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No map in mine - all stock, including filter and flapper apart from the Yoshi TRS mufflers - I presently have the quiet inserts in them and they are performing brilliantly. Really clean throttle response with no dips at all in the rev range. Better than I expected to be honest.

The quiet inserts are just that - surprising quiet, but with a nice tone once you give it some stick - consider them neighbor friendly.

I am ordering a spare set of quiet inserts to experiment with as they are too loud without them, I'll trim a bit off them until I have the volume I desire.
Nice !
Mine was terrible at low RPMs x low throttle opening, as in 1st gear traffic situtations. Plus it stunk real bad. I found the Power Commander and a different map made a huge difference overall.
My TRSs were bought back in 2005, so are an earlier design than your new ones. It sounds as though the newer ones are louder without the inserts, and quieter with them.

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post #23 of 43 Old 08-18-2010, 09:58 AM
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Wally, I can see your point.

Comparing an RC51 to a 919 is apples to to oranges, even more so.

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post #24 of 43 Old 08-18-2010, 02:00 PM
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Yea, but I have had no less than a dozen calls over the last couple years from 919 owners complaining about low-end fueling problems. Every one of them has had a K&N filter installed and about half of them reported back to me that when they removed the K&N as I instructed them to do and replaced it with the OEM filter that their problem was solved (two of them specifically were members of this site). Never heard another word from the rest of them...

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post #25 of 43 Old 08-18-2010, 02:39 PM
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ack. come to think of it. i still have the one the bike came with new. guess I otter check it.

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post #26 of 43 Old 08-23-2010, 11:30 AM
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In the interest of science, and the fact that the weeds aren't that tall, and I really didn't feel like getting on the Nordic Trac, I got the 919 out of the basement, checked the tires and went for a little ride to see about this low end fueling issue.

I rode at 2000 rpm in 1st, 2nd, well I guess all the gears. Held a steady throttle. No surging, no stumbles, just burbles right along, happy as a lark. Throttle inputs are completely linear. A little throttle equals a little go. I rode in first gear while standing; up and down hills. Surly then, the problems would surface, nope. It does just what it is supposed to do.

Now I know that all goes against convential WT dogma. I run the maligned 2Bro single can, a K+N, no PowerCommander, hell I even took the hole saw to the side of the snorkel. By all accounts, my 919 ought to be a cantankerous POC, but it's not. It's very smooth and easy to ride. I guess my bike just doesn't know any better.

Now I'm going to get myself into trouble. I wonder if the guys that are having problems with low end fueling know how th operate a throttle. This thing has respectable torque. It's FI-ed and very responsive.

If you want to see real low end fueling problems, ride a small bore 2 stroke KTM dirtbike.

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post #27 of 43 Old 08-27-2010, 12:01 PM
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come to think of it, my drag bike became hard to start when i modded the airbox to make room for nitrous plumbing, but i also gutted the stock air filter at that time down to its stainless steel screen. i wonder how much of the starting problem could be related to the air cleaner.

but, it looks like i blew the new motor, so the hard starting is the least of my concerns. the zero compression on #4 is greater.

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post #28 of 43 Old 08-27-2010, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
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come to think of it, my drag bike became hard to start when i modded the airbox to make room for nitrous plumbing, but i also gutted the stock air filter at that time down to its stainless steel screen. i wonder how much of the starting problem could be related to the air cleaner.

but, it looks like i blew the new motor, so the hard starting is the least of my concerns. the zero compression on #4 is greater.
Did ya at least crack a 9 out of it before you popped it?

- Rev. CYCHO -

tires.... it's what's for dinner!
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post #29 of 43 Old 08-27-2010, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
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come to think of it, my drag bike became hard to start when i modded the airbox to make room for nitrous plumbing, but i also gutted the stock air filter at that time down to its stainless steel screen. i wonder how much of the starting problem could be related to the air cleaner.

but, it looks like i blew the new motor, so the hard starting is the least of my concerns. the zero compression on #4 is greater.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

i had high hopes!

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post #30 of 43 Old 08-27-2010, 01:27 PM
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and the spark plug looks fine, so it's not likely nitrous-related. valves lightly hit piston is all i know right now.
10.1 @ 139 is where we sit for our current bests.
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post #31 of 43 Old 08-28-2010, 10:32 AM
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and the spark plug looks fine, so it's not likely nitrous-related. valves lightly hit piston is all i know right now.
10.1 @ 139 is where we sit for our current bests.
loss of valve control is the problem
do you have a rev kit in with cams you are using ?
what was the engine build clearance from valve head to piston top at assembly?
you did measure it .........right ?
as in a mock build, cams in and timed, engine rotated by hand ever so carefully with some kind of tell tale used between piston and valve (solder, plasticine, whatever)
and the piston reliefs do nicely match the valve heads ?
disassemble and see what the actuals are

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post #32 of 43 Old 08-28-2010, 10:58 AM
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Sorry to hear about your motor buck, keep us posted on your findings.
Let's hope its not expensive!

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post #33 of 43 Old 08-28-2010, 02:24 PM
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Sniper may want to add his bike details, but we did several roll-on comparisons today.

He has a 2005 919, 2Bros single side pipe, block off plates, flapper mod, air box mod, and a few other mods. Stock gearing.

I have a 2003 919, Titanium Sato exhaust, PCIII, block off plates, and flapper mod. I'm also running stock gearing.

All I can say is...







DEAD EVEN!

We did roll-ons in 2nd, 3rd, and 6th. Whoever got on it first would be about a half a bike ahead. And that's how it stayed.

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post #34 of 43 Old 08-28-2010, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmurphy84 View Post
Sniper may want to add his bike details, but we did several roll-on comparisons today.

He has a 2005 919, 2Bros single side pipe, block off plates, flapper mod, air box mod, and a few other mods. Stock gearing.

I have a 2003 919, Titanium Sato exhaust, PCIII, block off plates, and flapper mod. I'm also running stock gearing.

All I can say is...







DEAD EVEN!

We did roll-ons in 2nd, 3rd, and 6th. Whoever got on it first would be about a half a bike ahead. And that's how it stayed.
Now all you have to do is roll ons against a completely stock 919. Should be interesting.

Rob

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On the other hand, if it has not been done never assume it is impossible to do it.
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post #35 of 43 Old 08-28-2010, 04:20 PM
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Now all you have to do is roll ons against a completely stock 919. Should be interesting.

Rob
That would be the more interesting test.

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post #36 of 43 Old 08-28-2010, 06:25 PM
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HondaJim has a stock 919 with about the same mileage as Murph's and mine. ah-hem!

Actually mine is an 04, not that it matters. 33,141 miles.

I've hole sawed the snorkel/airbox cover, K+N, 2bros CF single. No Power Commander.

Funny thing is, Murph is running my old PC. (maybe we ought to play with that)

We did a 3rd gear, 4000. A 2nd gear, I don't know how many rpms. We did a 6th starting at about 2000 rpms. On the 6th gear roll on I purposly let Murph pull a length because I was sure I could catch him. But I didn't. I stayed in lockstep.

When you do something like this, you have to keep it honest because it's hard to get both bikes pinned at the exact same moment. I forget if we did 3 or 4 roll ons, but I think we got only one really "right".

It really surprised me that our bikes were dead even.

*I also want to cal it to everyone's attention thet Murph got a peg down for the first time today! Hooray! It happened west bound on 66 in Gypsie Curve. then he was making it hard on me when we crossed the bridge into The commonwealth.

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post #37 of 43 Old 08-28-2010, 06:29 PM
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Sorry about getting the year wrong. I didn't add my mileage...as she sits in the garage, she's got 29,328 on her.

I'm going to chalk up the peg down to poor body position and the slope of the road. I was hanging off, but obviously not enough. I do love Gypsie Curve heading West/South for some reason.

That road in KY is my favorite local road. 27 miles of good stuff that leads straight to the Southern Indiana good stuff.

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post #38 of 43 Old 08-28-2010, 07:57 PM
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Noooo, you earned the peg scrape fair and square.

You ought to hang off a bit more, but you've been riding very well lately.

And your bike runs almost as good as mine

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post #39 of 43 Old 08-28-2010, 10:13 PM
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Next spring, after Mrs. Murph pops, roll you sorry butts out of bed one morning and head over here. I can put you on roads where you can see your tail, feed you, then escort you part of the way home. I'd take the stock nine and we could do some roll ons with it.

We should have tried them against the Superchicken today. Would have been interesting.

"Towards the end of the vid, it looks like she may have had a bafflectomy." - MarylandMike
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post #40 of 43 Old 08-29-2010, 05:23 AM
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Quote:
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Next spring, after Mrs. Murph pops, roll you sorry butts out of bed one morning and head over here. I can put you on roads where you can see your tail, feed you, then escort you part of the way home. I'd take the stock nine and we could do some roll ons with it.

We should have tried them against the Superchicken today. Would have been interesting.
I'm game for that. I'm usually up by 6:00 (7:00 your time) every day anyway.

I won't pass up free food...ever. Just sayin'.

She looks like she could pop now.

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