919 PCIII Install Question - Wrist Twisters
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 33 Old 11-03-2006, 04:12 PM
motoxer101
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
919 PCIII Install Question

If this question has already been asked, I would appreciate any links that are relevant.

I am installing my PCIII on my 02, CA. spec 919. There is no "opaque connector" at the rear of the motorcycle, only wiring for the rear lights.

Do I tap into the black wire on the grey ECU connector as per Euro instructions, step 11 & 12 I believe.

I don't want to risk any damage.

Thanks,

Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 33 Old 11-03-2006, 04:21 PM
Tribunus Laticlavius
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Northern California
Posts: 7,109
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Donation Donation Donation 
Total Awards: 3

>There is no "opaque connector" at the rear of the motorcycle, only wiring for the rear lights.

DJ is color blind! There is one connector that fits their tap plug. As you said they are for rear lights so it must be running light power EG ignition.

Do not plug the Euro instructions for US.

Contrary to DJ's website there is no smog sensor in the pipe, so save your $15.

Mine works fine after the adventure in installing.

dream is offline  
post #3 of 33 Old 11-03-2006, 04:23 PM
motoxer101
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
huh? who is DJ? So you are saying the connector is in the tail light wiring...as in...inline with the wiring?

post #4 of 33 Old 11-03-2006, 04:29 PM
Tribuni Angusticlavii
 
ajcombs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 3,801
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Helping a Member in Need 
Total Awards: 1

i believe he means DJ is dyno jet

ajcombs is offline  
post #5 of 33 Old 11-03-2006, 04:30 PM
Tribunus Laticlavius
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Northern California
Posts: 7,109
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Donation Donation Donation 
Total Awards: 3

DynoJet, look on the box.

Yeah it's a pain to take the backend apart. But the tap plug is there. There were two opaque ones, but only one fits their plug. Check it out. Make sure you plug those fat ECU plugs in tight and run the ground back to the battery, and you used dialectic grease to seal the tap line. You don't want ground noise toggling the ECU remap.

Granted if you don't feel comfortable installing it (not easy!). Take it to a good shop! Because replacing the stock ECU (if you short it out) must cost ~$600!

dream is offline  
post #6 of 33 Old 11-03-2006, 04:34 PM
motoxer101
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Cool, Thank you. I did locate the one that fits...the liscense plate light. One more time..this is correct? Thanks guys

post #7 of 33 Old 11-03-2006, 04:36 PM
Legatus Legionis
 
SV650s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The woods of CT
Posts: 9,680
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Community Leadership Donation Donation Community Leadership 
Total Awards: 6

The opaque connector is the 2 pin connector that supplies the switched 12v to the license plate light. You are taping into it for the 12v needed to run your PCIII.

SV650s is offline  
post #8 of 33 Old 11-03-2006, 04:46 PM
Tribunus Laticlavius
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Northern California
Posts: 7,109
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Donation Donation Donation 
Total Awards: 3

That's a winner for the ignition on voltage! Now I know where to connect my power distribution relay coil!

The PC is so sweet to lean out your EFI for slipons.

dream is offline  
post #9 of 33 Old 11-03-2006, 04:50 PM
motoxer101
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
m51142 Thank you.

post #10 of 33 Old 11-04-2006, 10:23 AM
motoxer101
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Update: Wow...man what a difference....the 9er howls big time now. Thanks for the advice. R

post #11 of 33 Old 11-07-2006, 02:38 PM
motoxer101
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Another update. The bike runs killer, but won't idle when I first start it. It was 70 degrees this am, so its not the weather...even with choke on it wants to die unless the throttle is kept on....any ideas? Thanks, R

post #12 of 33 Old 11-07-2006, 02:58 PM
Cornicen
 
drivit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: toronto
Posts: 530
Rep Power: 1
 
start

turn up the idle screwwwwwwww.

drivit is offline  
post #13 of 33 Old 11-07-2006, 03:47 PM
motoxer101
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Thanks, but that is not the issue...after I ride the bike a few minutes its fine, and the idle is properly set. I am kinda looking for a non-obvious fix....I am very mechanical. Thanks though.

post #14 of 33 Old 11-07-2006, 03:54 PM
Primus Pilus
 
BockHawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Normal, IL
Posts: 3,432
Rep Power: 1
 
Garage
Sounds like your map is either way too rich or way too lean on the bottom end.

2002 919 40,000 miles
"racing is life...everything else is just waiting"
BockHawk is offline  
post #15 of 33 Old 11-07-2006, 03:57 PM
motoxer101
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Yeah, I got it from Dan Kyle, and its the sato map...which runs killer everywhere...except when first starting cold. I have left Dan a message, so we'll see. Thanks, R

post #16 of 33 Old 11-07-2006, 03:58 PM
Primus Pilus
 
BockHawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Normal, IL
Posts: 3,432
Rep Power: 1
 
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by motoxer101 View Post
Yeah, I got it from Dan Kyle, and its the sato map...which runs killer everywhere...except when first starting cold. I have left Dan a message, so we'll see. Thanks, R
Stupid question time: how much fuel is in the tank?

2002 919 40,000 miles
"racing is life...everything else is just waiting"
BockHawk is offline  
post #17 of 33 Old 11-07-2006, 04:00 PM
motoxer101
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
1/2 this morning. Que pasa?

post #18 of 33 Old 11-07-2006, 04:11 PM
Honda Addict
 
razorbike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 828
Rep Power: 1
 
I had the same problem with starting/idle when cold (even in warmer weather). Had the same map from Dan Kyle. I just richened up the low end button a couple of notches and it straightened out. I'm now running the
"919satonew2" map from 919.org. It's basically Kyle's map that LDH adjusted some. It runs great all over now.

It's a fool who looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart.
razorbike is offline  
post #19 of 33 Old 11-07-2006, 04:14 PM
motoxer101
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
How did you adjust it? thanks,

post #20 of 33 Old 11-07-2006, 04:22 PM
Church of the Holy Smoke
 
MotoCycho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: SLC, UT
Posts: 1,085
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by motoxer101 View Post
Thanks, but that is not the issue...after I ride the bike a few minutes its fine, and the idle is properly set. I am kinda looking for a non-obvious fix....I am very mechanical. Thanks though.
Had that exact same issue with a PC3 usb.. I RMAed it through DynoJet and the next one didn't do that. I say next one because I had to RMA my PC3 three times.

Let's see if I can remember the right order and symptoms....

1st PC3) wouldn't start without throttle and immediately died after starting unless you held throttle open until warmed up (same as you) This behavior started after it was about 3 months old or so.

2nd PC3) Started and idled fine but within the first week it started causing the bike to die as I was under throttle and the FI light would come and fuel pump was off. Had to reset the engine kill switch to restart. When bike ran it ran like crap.. back fired.. etc. This was the worst PC3 I had of the 4 I have had.

3rd PC3) Worked fine for a few months.. Then, out of the blue bike would crank but not start. By-pass the PC3.. yeah.. take off the tail section and completely remove it, putting back to stock ECU.. bike fired right up.

4th PC3) This one has been perfect for about a year now. I noticed that on this one DynoJet had lengthened the cable harness making it easier to locate in different places under the seat. Since '04 the PC3 instructions would not work for the suggested mounting point as the seat would sit right on it. See below for seat comparison. '04 and later seat is on left.

Where to install instead:

I should also note that I am very technically competent. Do I know everything about everything?.. no! But I assure you I installed the PC3 correctly all 4 times. (Actually more since I did plenty of testing before calling DynoJet each time.) I know enough about everything to know when I don't know enough about that thing! PC3 installs are not that thing!

My advice, don't wait, call DynoJet and report your issue. Talk to Phil Dupree, 800-992-4993 ext. 1127. If it helps, PM me and I will give you my personal info so you can mention my name if you like. Probably won't need it. They were very cooperative. Make sure you have covered all your bases.. I'm sure you understand what I mean if you have ever done RMA or been on the other end of technical support. Smart folks go up the tiers much faster.

Good luck!

- Rev. CYCHO -

tires.... it's what's for dinner!
MotoCycho is offline  
post #21 of 33 Old 11-07-2006, 04:32 PM
Tribuni Angusticlavii
 
ajcombs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 3,801
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Helping a Member in Need 
Total Awards: 1

damnnnnnn 4 pc3's before you got a good one makes me want to uh ask another question and i believe i will on another thead! good luck with this and keep us informed on the repair.

ajcombs is offline  
post #22 of 33 Old 11-07-2006, 06:18 PM
motoxer101
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
When I went to start it this afternoon...4:30, been sitting for 7.5 hours...80 degrees...started right up, no choke, idles killer. Can anyone tell me how to adjust the mixture at idle via the PC3? THoughts?

post #23 of 33 Old 11-07-2006, 06:46 PM
Honda Addict
 
razorbike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 828
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by motoxer101 View Post
Can anyone tell me how to adjust the mixture at idle via the PC3? THoughts?
Like Rev. Cycho, I ain't an authority on the subject...

BUT... from my experience, when I was running the DK installed map it ran great in the mid range and top end but was a bitch to start. Had to use the choke knob even warm weather. That told me it wasn't getting enough fuel down low. Despite the fact that the throttle response was instant once I was running down the road, it had a bad habit of running a bit warmer than normal when I would romp on it then slow down to traffic speed. This made me wonder if it was running a bit too lean. I started playing with the buttons and bumped all of them up a couple of notches. According to the Dynojet site, it increases fuel delivery by 2% for every increment on the light scales. So basically I increased the fuel by 4% across the board. Not much, but enough to make a significant difference. Given the margin of error between different bikes, that figures. Even tho we all ride a 919, theres always gonna be a slight personality difference.

After the aforementioned experiences, I decided to try one of LDH's maps from 919.org and everything improved slightly over the DK map it came with. it definitely starts better. No need to use the choke (or to be more accurate, "fast idle") knob now.

This is the beauty of the PC3 - the flexibility to try different maps and find what's right for each particular bike.

I don't think they vary so much that everyone needs to go and do an "official" Dynojet tuning session. Hell, that's one of the benefits of this forum - to share research and get it right from the experience of others.

It's a fool who looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart.
razorbike is offline  
post #24 of 33 Old 11-07-2006, 06:50 PM
motoxer101
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
rzr...good info. Do I adjust the PC3 while running, or just with the ignition on? Press the buttons to desired effect? Thanks again. R

post #25 of 33 Old 11-07-2006, 06:59 PM
Honda Addict
 
razorbike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 828
Rep Power: 1
 
Oh, BTW Motoxer101, to adjust the buttons for any particular range -

Hold down all three buttons then turn the key so everything lights up. Once the "whirrrrr" of the fuel pump quits, let off with the 3 fingers and hold down the button you wish to adjust (low for example) after a couple of seconds you'll see the light only in that row. Bump it in increments and you'll see the light move up or down the scale. The light in the middle of the column is the starting point from the installed map. if you were making the adjustments I described above, move it 2 lights up the scale in any given column. To make multiple adjustments, just hit the button in whichever column you want to adjust. When you've moved it where you wnat, let off the button and give it about 20-30 seconds. When the light drops to the bottom of the scale, that means your change is saved.

Badabing, badaboom - go for a ride and see what happens.

It's a fool who looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart.
razorbike is offline  
post #26 of 33 Old 11-07-2006, 07:23 PM
Primus Pilus
 
BockHawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Normal, IL
Posts: 3,432
Rep Power: 1
 
Garage
Don't forget that different altitudes will also alter your experience with various PC3 maps. That could have drastic effects on your a/f mix.

2002 919 40,000 miles
"racing is life...everything else is just waiting"
BockHawk is offline  
post #27 of 33 Old 11-07-2006, 07:52 PM
motoxer101
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
rzr..again...thanks.. Exactly what I was looking for. I will adjust tomorrow and update.

BTW The cans, Sato, the PC3, flapper mod...this thing rips!!

post #28 of 33 Old 11-07-2006, 10:14 PM
Church of the Holy Smoke
 
MotoCycho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: SLC, UT
Posts: 1,085
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by razorbike View Post
Like Rev. Cycho, I ain't an authority on the subject...
um.. did I say that?.. because I actually do consider myself a bit of an authority on malfunctioning PC3s... I had 3 of them!

Did what I wrote go over the head of everyone? I said I have had the same issue as well as other issues with 3 PC3's. To fix them I had to replace them! Remap the effing hell out of your PC3.. I don't care. Maybe reading what I bother to type is worth a shot? Who knows... maybe not?

Nevertheless, I will write a few more words. If you are no longer interested in facts stop reading here.

All the PC maps mentioned and lots more, including the DynoJet map for stock bikes, have all zeros (0) in the 0% throttle column and all zeros in the 500 to 1000 RPM range at any throttle position. That leaves a big fat effing ZERO in the 0 to infinity RPM at zero throttle. In other words.. loading a new map does nothing at idle. I will repeat, NOTHING TO YOUR AIR FUEL AT IDLE.
NOTHING!


I opened as many maps as I could stand to look at and all have the same zeros in both columns. Zero means that the stock ECU is sending is default value.. not zero fuel, BTW. So I thought of this last year... wonder if I can make it run better at idle. The answer is yes. You have to add a value to the 500 to 2000 RPM range for the zero throttle position. It really doesn't take much to affect the idle, and you can send maps to the PC3 while the bike is running and watch it affect the idle real time. Increasing the resolution of the map gives even better control.. you only have to enrich it slightly to get positive results at idle. However, this did not fix my problem.. which is exactly the same as motoxer101 describes. Again, I had to replace the PC3. So feel free to throw maps at it all you want and adjust the hell out of the 2% LOW|MED|HIGH buttons (which adjust the fuel mixture in very broad strokes. It divides the RPM range into thirds for those interested and have bothered to read this far.) but you will not fix the problem motoxer101 has described. Your late model fuel injected bike with a Power Commander installed should start and idle without touching the throttle. Some choke may need to be applied to hold the idle up during initial warming but it should stay running.. period! Keep in mind the choke does not register as a higher throttle position by the ECU and PC3. Your sh!t is busted bro. I don't know how to put it more simple then this. I have given you contact info to some one at DynoJet that can help you. Now do what you want with this information.

- Rev. CYCHO -

tires.... it's what's for dinner!
MotoCycho is offline  
post #29 of 33 Old 11-07-2006, 10:31 PM
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,379
Rep Power: 0
 
Really good, interesting info Reverend.

I don't think Razorbike meant anything by that. He was just referring to when you said this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reverend
I know enough about everything to know when I don't know enough about that thing! PC3 installs are not that thing!
That sentence is confusing, at first I thought you were saying you don't know enough about PC3's, but now I realize that you were saying you know a whole lot about PC3's (which I have to agree).

motorwerks919 is offline  
post #30 of 33 Old 11-08-2006, 08:36 AM
Honda Addict
 
razorbike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 828
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoCycho View Post
I should also note that I am very technically competent. Do I know everything about everything?.. no! But I assure you I installed the PC3 correctly all 4 times.
And this statement as well. I'll easily admit that you have more experience with the PC3.

My advice to Motoxer101 is based on what simple solution worked to correct my PC3 problem. Obviously not as involved as your last post. I have learned to approach any mechanical problem by trying the simplest solution first, then get more advanced until the problem goes away. In the case of my bike, adjusting the buttons DID help the situation regardless of how much technical data you want to throw out. Now, granted, mine would idle ok once it was going - it was just stubborn to start. Everything improved even more when I switched to the LDH 919satonew2 map. I did not go in and change any of the cells. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Sorry if the opinions I've tossed out in this thread stepped on your "Techno Toes" there Motocycho.

It's a fool who looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart.
razorbike is offline  
post #31 of 33 Old 11-08-2006, 08:46 AM
motoxer101
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
I appreciate all the data guys. I am going to talk to Dan Kyle and go from there. The bike is running killer, and I am a "warm it up while ya ride it" type guy, so its not that big O' deal, but not Ideal....ya know?

Thanks again. I will post results.

post #32 of 33 Old 11-08-2006, 11:29 AM
motoxer101
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
I spoke with Dan, and he suggested the same thing rxr did. He instructed me to check the zero level at idle and then increase to see if that helps. I am going to try this and then see. He also suggested that either a pc3 works or it doesn't, and the fact that the bike runs great is an indication that all is needed is an adjustment. we'll see.

post #33 of 33 Old 11-08-2006, 05:09 PM
Cornicen
 
drivit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: toronto
Posts: 530
Rep Power: 1
 
bright

having already revealed my ignorance re: idle screw. when i order my brand new PC111 from the parts guy......what map will it come with? i know the parts guy don't know.

drivit is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wrist Twisters forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome