919 on the Dyno - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 206 Old 09-13-2009, 09:18 AM Thread Starter
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919 on the Dyno

I am leaving as soon as I post this.

I am going to get my bike dynoed today. Post your guesses for HP here winner gets $10,000 Casino Cash

'02 Honda 919
23,000 miles
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PCIII
Plus its black and those are most powerful

What are your bets?

Mine is 114.

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post #2 of 206 Old 09-13-2009, 09:36 AM
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does wristtwisters have casino cash?

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post #3 of 206 Old 09-13-2009, 09:56 AM
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What are you getting it dyno'd on?

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post #4 of 206 Old 09-13-2009, 09:58 AM
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108.5 hp




































Psssssst... The FZ1 is getting a PCIII (custom tune from Ivan at Ivans Performance) and a set of smaller sub throttle plates installed on Tues) That should put my power somewhere in the neighborhood of 140-145 hp now with my mods. I just got done loading the tune in my PCIII and now waiting till tomorrow for my throttle plates to come in the mail. Then all will be installed at my shop


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post #5 of 206 Old 09-13-2009, 10:00 AM
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post #6 of 206 Old 09-13-2009, 10:25 AM
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post #7 of 206 Old 09-13-2009, 11:02 AM
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post #8 of 206 Old 09-13-2009, 11:03 AM
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post #9 of 206 Old 09-13-2009, 12:22 PM Thread Starter
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Okay good news and bad news... Mostly BAD
BAD news... I have at least one bad valve seal. He said he wasn't going to even try to tune it. The bike is up for sale...

The good news... Despite that the baseline test, before he even started just to get an idea of where we were was 112.43 HP and 71.06lbs of torque... He said if we could tune it and there was no problem with the valves he could make at least 120 out of it...


So Mike you win... I guess...

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post #10 of 206 Old 09-13-2009, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XRCajun View Post
What are you getting it dyno'd on?
That is a good question. Every type of dyno is different and will have different readings. I've seen graphs for the same bike with same mods show up to 15hp variance for different dyno's. It's the curve - A/F - RPM that will tell you where you truly are.

I wouldn't put to much stock in base runs or even the fact that you have a bad valve, Until you do a leak down test and check your valve lash.

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post #11 of 206 Old 09-13-2009, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripper View Post
That is a good question. Every type of dyno is different and will have different readings. I've seen graphs for the same bike with same mods show up to 15hp variance for different dyno's. It's the curve - A/F - RPM that will tell you where you truly are.

I wouldn't put to much stock in base runs or even the fact that you have a bad valve, Until you do a leak down test and check your valve lash.
+1

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post #12 of 206 Old 09-13-2009, 01:06 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XRCajun View Post
What are you getting it dyno'd on?
It was a DynoJet something... I dont know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripper View Post
That is a good question. Every type of dyno is different and will have different readings. I've seen graphs for the same bike with same mods show up to 15hp variance for different dyno's. It's the curve - A/F - RPM that will tell you where you truly are.

I wouldn't put to much stock in base runs or even the fact that you have a bad valve, Until you do a leak down test and check your valve lash.
It does have at least one bad valve seal. It blows smoke on decel from High RPM's

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post #13 of 206 Old 09-13-2009, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Basspiece919 View Post
Okay good news and bad news... Mostly BAD
BAD news... I have at least one bad valve seal. He said he wasn't going to even try to tune it. The bike is up for sale...

The good news... Despite that the baseline test, before he even started just to get an idea of where we were was 112.43 HP and 71.06lbs of torque... He said if we could tune it and there was no problem with the valves he could make at least 120 out of it...


So Mike you win... I guess...
Bummer about the valve seal, Luke. Any idea how hard/ how much that is to fix?

Thanks for the cash...can't believe I was off by .12

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post #14 of 206 Old 09-13-2009, 01:33 PM
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Sorry to hear about the bike... Low on cash and can't fix? Or don't wanna? Gettin somethin else?

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post #15 of 206 Old 09-13-2009, 01:42 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BigMike919 View Post
Sorry to hear about the bike... Low on cash and can't fix? Or don't wanna? Gettin somethin else?
Low on cash and ability to fix it... After it sells I am in the market for something else...

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post #16 of 206 Old 09-13-2009, 01:55 PM
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Nice! Goin for another 9er? Didn't you say a while back you were lookin at RC51s?

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post #17 of 206 Old 09-13-2009, 01:57 PM
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Man a Honda with a bad valve at 23k miles. shh. quick lets sweep this under the rug before some kawapiano rider sees it.

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post #18 of 206 Old 09-13-2009, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Basspiece919 View Post
It does have at least one bad valve seal. It blows smoke on decel from High RPM's
I've seen a lot of bikes puff a little smoke on the dyno that didn't have any real problems. Are there any other symptoms?

Also, if you are looking at RC51's, I have to say they are one of the prettiest bikes ever, and with the right exhaust one of the best sounding bikes ever. There were two at the track/school day that I was at last Friday.

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post #19 of 206 Old 09-13-2009, 02:22 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by djmell762 View Post
Man a Honda with a bad valve at 23k miles. shh. quick lets sweep this under the rug before some kawapiano rider sees it.
John said it might be because the bike sat pretty much unridden for the first 6 years of its life. Then i put 15k on it in no time. the seals might have had some dry rot.

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Originally Posted by sike View Post
I've seen a lot of bikes puff a little smoke on the dyno that didn't have any real problems. Are there any other symptoms?

Also, if you are looking at RC51's, I have to say they are one of the prettiest bikes ever, and with the right exhaust one of the best sounding bikes ever. There were two at the track/school day that I was at last Friday.
it wasnt a little smoke...

I dont know if I can get an RC... Its so impractical.

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post #20 of 206 Old 09-13-2009, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
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it wasnt a little smoke...

I dont know if I can get an RC... Its so impractical.
That is an important point.

Impractical, but incredible!!!!!!!!!!

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post #21 of 206 Old 09-13-2009, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
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That is an important point.

Impractical, but incredible!!!!!!!!!!
+9,000,000... Do dumb chit now while you can...Your still young and can use it as an excuse! You got those tickets cleared up, right? If not the RC, what are you lookin at? This calls for a poll...

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post #22 of 206 Old 09-13-2009, 03:04 PM
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Also, if you are looking at RC51's, I have to say they are one of the prettiest bikes ever, and with the right exhaust one of the best sounding bikes ever. There were two at the track/school day that I was at last Friday.
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Impractical, but incredible!!!!!!!!!!
Yes they are. I installed a set of Sato's with a PCIII and a Dan Kyle tune when I had mine. I do miss that sound, Just don't miss the uncofortable ride after being on it for an 1hr. Regardless, That has been the most impressive bike I've owned!

Also had a 996 back in the day...Also a very fun bike to ride that turned heads!
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post #23 of 206 Old 09-13-2009, 03:46 PM
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Seriously? A valve seal is no reason to sell a bike. I'm starting to doubt the credibility of this dyno operator. Just from a puff of smoke he was able to determine that you have a bad valve seal?

Not to mention... Just by announcing it has a bad valve seal you are going to be extremely hard pressed to sell it, as it now has a potential engine problems... IMO, I doubt it has any issues at all. But the cat is out of the bag so to say. If it did have a bad valve seal it is not the end of the world in terms of mechanical abilities to replace. You are worried about what it's going to cost and your ability to do the work? It sounds to me that there is no real mechanical knowledge on your part so taking the word of someone else is just easier? As for the cost, its going to cost you so much more in the sale value of your bike having a bad seal than it is to repair it. I mean no disrespect to you, just stating what I see and based on the comments of your dyno operator (Hack IMO). I'd look into a second opinion. It ran fine before you took it in, it still runs fine, all engines will give a puff of smoke if run hard and yours is no different.

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post #24 of 206 Old 09-13-2009, 03:55 PM
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pull the head fix the valves they need it after sitting so long then sell it it you still want to but ride the hell out of it first

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post #25 of 206 Old 09-13-2009, 04:02 PM
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I'd doubt the dyno operator just because he said he could tune it to 120HP!

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post #26 of 206 Old 09-13-2009, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
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I'd doubt the dyno operator just because he said he could tune it to 120HP!

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post #27 of 206 Old 09-13-2009, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
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pull the head fix the valves they need it after sitting so long then sell it it you still want to but ride the hell out of it first
The cylinder head does not need to be removed to install valve guide seals. Applying compressed air into each cylinder that your working with and removing keepers, springs and swapping out the seals is very common.

But to echo what Ripper stated. I doubt you have any major issues Luke. Seriously!

Heck, My FZ1 puffed a little smoke today after I warmed it up when I was checking throttle response with the tune in my PC3 ... It's not a biggy Luke.

Now if you noticed that everytime you applied throttle after decel you got a good puff of smoke, then it would be fare to say you have bad valve guide seals.


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post #28 of 206 Old 09-13-2009, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripper View Post
Seriously? A valve seal is no reason to sell a bike. I'm starting to doubt the credibility of this dyno operator. Just from a puff of smoke he was able to determine that you have a bad valve seal?

Not to mention... Just by announcing it has a bad valve seal you are going to be extremely hard pressed to sell it, as it now has a potential engine problems... IMO, I doubt it has any issues at all. But the cat is out of the bag so to say. If it did have a bad valve seal it is not the end of the world in terms of mechanical abilities to replace. You are worried about what it's going to cost and your ability to do the work? It sounds to me that there is no real mechanical knowledge on your part so taking the word of someone else is just easier? As for the cost, its going to cost you so much more in the sale value of your bike having a bad seal than it is to repair it. I mean no disrespect to you, just stating what I see and based on the comments of your dyno operator (Hack IMO). I'd look into a second opinion. It ran fine before you took it in, it still runs fine, all engines will give a puff of smoke if run hard and yours is no different.

X2

I just can't believe the folks who say it is not cost effective to fix, so going to get rid of it and go with something else.

Look at it as extra lube for the valve! cause it sure as hell will not hurt anything because you did not know you had the problem till they told ya?

I say this because I have way more time than money, and I can keep fixin something till it is good and broke, so I will just attempt fixing it if it were mine............if any of that made any sense?

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post #29 of 206 Old 09-13-2009, 05:40 PM
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If I had a 919 that made a genuine 112 hp with 71 ft lbs, there is no way I'd part with it.

You're going to sell it because a little puff of smoke? Who cares about a little bit of smoke?

If smoke bothers you, find some Klotz. That stuff doesn't smoke.

Mine smokes a bit, and I'm damm proud of it.

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post #30 of 206 Old 09-13-2009, 06:31 PM
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luke after reading this i gotta say dont sell it... valve seals are a pretty easy fix... hell, pull the head...get it shaved a few thousandths (to up the compression) and run it till it drops... also if you are needing a oil change it will smoke a bit on decel.... lemme know if i can help with anything



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post #31 of 206 Old 09-13-2009, 06:47 PM
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Is it using a measurable amount of oil between oil changes? I'm saying check the oil occasionally including right before you change it. If you aren't at least a quart low after 3,000 miles, you have absolutely nothing that needs fixing. Even then, you're only worry is really making sure your oil doesn't run low.

On the other hand if you need to add 2 quarts to go 3000 miles, then you probably have something you should think about fixing.

A little oil consumption and a little smoke is normal. Relax..............

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post #32 of 206 Old 09-13-2009, 07:24 PM
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question. . . what is the ram air you speak of?

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post #33 of 206 Old 09-13-2009, 07:45 PM
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On a long weekend, bring it to VB.
I am sure that either McCrimmon, Simpson or I can get it together for you.

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post #34 of 206 Old 09-13-2009, 08:12 PM Thread Starter
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Okay lemme restart this convo.

First my mechanic. He's done 70,000 miles worth of service on my families bikes. Sold Dad his, advised me on mine before i bought it. Every service or mod or upgrade that's been made to any of the bikes has been at the very least run by him first. He has no reason to tell me the valves are bad if they are not and absolutely no reason to advice me to sell it asap before it gets bad. If John wasnt convinced there was something wrong he wouldnt have told me he was done with it on the dyno because he was scared to blow it up and made $40 instead of $200. I have absolutely no reason to not trust him.
He also has no reason to tell me my bike is putting out 112 when its not, if you don't believe in the ram air that's your deal. But lemme tell you, it works.

I have been using oil. About a quart per 3000 miles. And I have been puffing smoke for awhile. I have been in denial about it being the valves for awhile now. That's how I broke the bolt last week, telling myself that it was seeping a quart every three thousand miles... Thats why it was on the dyno, "to fix the AF ratio so that it will stop smoking when I get off the power from high RPM's, and to get the black crap off my license plate" I also had some oil on the spark plugs when I changed them last time. That said the bike is running like an absolute champ, it pulls like an animal.

When we put it on the dyno and fired it up he ran it way up to redline as soon as the rev limiter kicked and he let off it started puffing thick medium brown smoke and continued puffing it out all the way back down to maybe 7000revs. He did it a few times and then shut it off and said, "Luke your valve seals are bad, if I try to tune it I am going to ruin it" So we took it off the dyno.

He said its probably going to cost me $500 just for parts and its not easy to do even if you pull the whole motor (which he said is the easy part...)

Now if somebody could tell me how to do it or if there is a write up from somebody having done it already that would be fantastic. I may not be the most mechanically gifted and i might not know what I am talking about all the time but I am smart enough to know my limitations and from how he explained it (although he said I could do it myself) I don't think it would be wise for me to try it alone.

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post #35 of 206 Old 09-13-2009, 08:33 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hondaf4iguy View Post
On a long weekend, bring it to VB.
I am sure that either McCrimmon, Simpson or I can get it together for you.
If you guys think you can help me with it tell me what parts to order and lets do it.

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post #36 of 206 Old 09-13-2009, 08:37 PM
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Is brown smoke,oil?

I thought oil smoke was blueish/white.

Runs good, pulls like a champ? Throw some oil in it and ride. I've heard that engines don't run their best until they use some oil.

switch oil

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post #37 of 206 Old 09-13-2009, 08:39 PM Thread Starter
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i think it was brown... maybe kinda blueish idk... it was alot though

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post #38 of 206 Old 09-13-2009, 08:49 PM
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Ram air isn't going to make any difference at all on a dyno! The bike has to be moving for it to make a difference.

Dyno's can be set up to show a higher HP reading than what is actual and true.

Now I have a big question; So your mechanic told you to hurry up and dump your bike on someone else before it has a real problem? Now there's some trustworthiness!

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post #39 of 206 Old 09-13-2009, 08:56 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XRCajun View Post
Ram air isn't going to make any difference at all on a dyno! The bike has to be moving for it to make a difference.

Dyno's can be set up to show a higher HP reading than what is actual and true.

Now I have a big question; So your mechanic told you to hurry up and dump your bike on someone else before it has a real problem? Now there's some trustworthiness!
His dyno has high power fans blowing air at speeds equivalent to the mph on the dyno (up to like 100mph)

He said to get rid of it while its running perfectly while I still can.

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post #40 of 206 Old 09-13-2009, 08:57 PM
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Well, this has turned into an interesting thread. I agree with XRCajon about a guy telling you to dump it onto someone else before it becomes a big problem. I would struggle with that, I don't think I could sell something for a normal price that I believed might be a big problem for the next person (but, I have no idea what your plans were/are). If you want another bike, sell it and move on. By the way, dark smoke (usually black) is gas and not oil. Oil is usually pretty darn white.

Good Luck in whatever direction you choose.

sike is offline  
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