919 fork oil change - yes I searched - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 26 Old 09-26-2010, 02:50 AM Thread Starter
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919 fork oil change - yes I searched

OK I searched like crazy and found lots of interesting suspensions discussions but no 'how-to's'.

Fork oil change on the 919. 07 model.

From what I gather it goes like this:

Drop forks, undo top cap - there is a thingy to undo under the top cap then remove the spacer and spring.

Tip out old oil, remove cartridge and pump it like a school-boy to remove oil.

Cartridge back in.

Add oil - 10 weight, spec amount.

Pump fork several times and pump cartridge several times to fill.

Measure oil when the fork is compressed.

Adjust to suit.

Spring back in, spacer back in, tighten up the rod and top cap and screw top cap back in.

What did I miss?

More importantly how come my local suspension man wants $300 to do this if I bring the forks in!

Consquently I'll do it myself.

Cheers for any pointers or directions to the no doubt already posted link.

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post #2 of 26 Old 09-26-2010, 03:08 AM
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It's a lot easier if you loosen the top caps before you loosen the triple clamps. That way after removing the forks it's easier to get the top caps off.
If you're not disassembling them, after you pump them "like a school boy" to get the old oil out, leave them upside down for awhile setting in a bowl or something that can catch the oil. Some more will drain out.
If you get too much fork oil in one I use one of those snot suckers for a baby's nose to get some out.

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post #3 of 26 Old 09-26-2010, 03:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllanB View Post
OK I searched like crazy and found lots of interesting suspensions discussions but no 'how-to's'.

Fork oil change on the 919. 07 model.

From what I gather it goes like this:

Drop forks, undo top cap - there is a thingy to undo under the top cap then remove the spacer and spring.

Tip out old oil, remove cartridge and pump it like a school-boy to remove oil.

Cartridge back in.

Add oil - 10 weight, spec amount.

Pump fork several times and pump cartridge several times to fill.

Measure oil when the fork is compressed.

Adjust to suit.

Spring back in, spacer back in, tighten up the rod and top cap and screw top cap back in.

What did I miss?

More importantly how come my local suspension man wants $300 to do this if I bring the forks in!

Consquently I'll do it myself.

Cheers for any pointers or directions to the no doubt already posted link.
Good stuff, I'm about to do this the next free weekend I have. Not sure I understand how to measure the fork oil though? measure from the top of the leg?

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post #4 of 26 Old 09-26-2010, 03:54 AM
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how old are the forks, maybe while they are out you could put in new seals and clean that area, its a shame to do all that work, to have a bit of dirt damage the seals.


measure from the top of the leg, with the forks compressed, I like to over fill a bit then use a syringe with a pre-measured extension tube to suck out the excess
WxN likes this.

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post #5 of 26 Old 09-26-2010, 04:02 AM
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Loosen the top cap, drop your forks. Loosen top cap completely and drop your forks upside down. Drain the oil. Remove top cap, preload adjuster and spacer with spring. Remove rebound needle (carefully) from the rebound tube.

Push fork tube (chrome part) and rebound rod all the way into fork leg (bottom part) Refill with fluid (should be less than 16 oz per fork). Make sure it's a cartridge fork fluid not just any fork fluid (like for dirt bikes, harleys etc).
Push rebound rod all the way down. Take fork tube (chrome part) and extend it up about. Cover the top with your hand and push it down (do this a few times). Leave it in down position. Pump the rebound rod a few times until clear ol will come out of it (bo air babbles). Screw the rebound needle into the rebound rod and leave it for 5-10min. After that check the oil level, start with 125mm. If needed, siphon some with a meat injector etc. Once you get 125mm, bolt everything back up.








here is your fork, obviously you don't need to take it apart that much


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post #6 of 26 Old 09-26-2010, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zaq123 View Post
Loosen the top cap, drop your forks. Loosen top cap completely and drop your forks upside down. Drain the oil. Remove top cap, preload adjuster and spacer with spring. Remove rebound needle (carefully) from the rebound tube.

Push fork tube (chrome part) and rebound rod all the way into fork leg (bottom part) Refill with fluid (should be less than 16 oz per fork). Make sure it's a cartridge fork fluid not just any fork fluid (like for dirt bikes, harleys etc).
Push rebound rod all the way down. Take fork tube (chrome part) and extend it up about. Cover the top with your hand and push it down (do this a few times). Leave it in down position. Pump the rebound rod a few times until clear ol will come out of it (bo air babbles). Screw the rebound needle into the rebound rod and leave it for 5-10min. After that check the oil level, start with 125mm. If needed, siphon some with a meat injector etc. Once you get 125mm, bolt everything back up.








here is your fork, obviously you don't need to take it apart that much

See zaq's upper picture, with the hands on the wrenches.
Now go back to and add a step 1 at the very beginning of the work.
A
Very gently nip down your external rebound adjuster to closed, as in full hard, and count the number of turns needed.
B
Then back it out 1/2 a turn.

This is all to make absolutely sure there is no way then needle can get damaged from over tightening during disassembly ( yes, it should not be possible to overtighten during disassembly but why take a chance).

Fast forward to reassembly time.
To the stage that you are about to remount the top cap/adjuster assembly to the cartridge rod.
1
Turn the rebound adjusters in 1/2 turn.
2
Back off the jam nut on the cartridge rod.
3
Very lightly and slowly run down the top cap assembly on to the cartridge rod.
4
As soon as the top cap assembly barely feels like it has hit some kind of internal "stop", do not move it further.
5
Back out the rebound adjuster 1/2 turn.
6
Run up the cartridge rod lock nut until it nips up on the underside of the top cap assembly.
7
Set the cartridge rod lock nut to tight.
8
Turn in your rebound adjuster until it lightly bottoms out.
9
Back out your rebound adjuster to the same number of turns you found at very beginning of work step A above.


All of this is about making sure the rebound needle does not get damaged by bottoming out during disassembly and reassembly, getting repeatability on rebound settings, and making sure the working height of the rebound needle rod is kept correct over multiple dis and re-assemblies over time. You can also do a vernier checks from the top face of the rebound adjuster screw down to the top face of the ride height adjusters. Until you had it apart, what you may not know is that the actual rebound "needle" is at the end of a long skinny rod that registers inside the cartridge rod. The needle and seat are not in the top adjuster cap assembly. Now go back to step 4. What you are actually feeling at this point is the needle at the end of the long skinny rod seating down deep inside the cartridge rod.

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post #7 of 26 Old 09-26-2010, 10:56 AM
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My service manual on page's 13-1 and 13-23 say's that the Fork Oil Level should be 155mm (6.1 in).
I hope that the manual is right because that is what I set mine to.

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post #8 of 26 Old 09-26-2010, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondad View Post
My service manual on page's 13-1 and 13-23 say's that the Fork Oil Level should be 155mm (6.1 in).
I hope that the manual is right because that is what I set mine to.
That is correct in terms of the manual.
Race Tech calls up 140 for a modded front end.
I went to 125, purely looking for some more air springing at one heavy brake point on the track. It made a bit of difference so I stayed at 125. Didn't want to change the spring rate, as the spring rate is just right everywhere else.

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post #9 of 26 Old 09-26-2010, 11:13 AM
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my buddy drilled tapped drain plugs in both forks then fills using a small pump.....they should all be that easy

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post #10 of 26 Old 09-26-2010, 01:05 PM
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[QUOTE=HondaJim;414875]It's a lot easier if you loosen the top caps before you loosen the triple clamps. QUOTE]

Amen to that. I learnt that the hard way. bt hey now others get to benefit from my stupidity.

Ohh use a vernier to measure the oil height.

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post #11 of 26 Old 09-26-2010, 04:47 PM
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Question: what's the deal on a required spring compressor, my local suspension guy say's you need this to replace the springs.

Also how about the details related to drilling and tapping the lwr legs for quick oil replacement by draining a certain volume of fliud from each leg then replacing that particular amount? I know this is far from the desired method but if you wanted to experiment with different oil wts and volumes in should work with a fair level of consistency... Opions welcome

YAAWZZU!!!

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post #12 of 26 Old 09-26-2010, 05:28 PM
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I'm really not sure how a spring compressor would function in this case...it would have to attach internal to the spring coils, be thin enough to not interfere with the inner workings and also be temporal/spacial multi-phase compliant to pass through the top cap for removal after you put it all back together.

I think a medical type syringe (without a needle) would work very well for adding & removing fork oil as necessary since it would have volume measure markings on the side.





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Well, fire the engines! Spur this iron space-pony on!

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post #13 of 26 Old 09-26-2010, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEFFREY HERRELL View Post
Question: what's the deal on a required spring compressor, my local suspension guy say's you need this to replace the springs.

Also how about the details related to drilling and tapping the lwr legs for quick oil replacement by draining a certain volume of fliud from each leg then replacing that particular amount? I know this is far from the desired method but if you wanted to experiment with different oil wts and volumes in should work with a fair level of consistency... Opions welcome
You can get away without it.
The 919 forks are such that you can get the top cap threads started back in by merely pushing down on the cap with your hand and turning it. I use tall socket and and wear a grip glove to do it.
What is nice to have is the steel support plate that slides over the cartridge rod under the jam nut at the top. It makes loosening and re-tightening the top cap assembly to the cartridge rod much easier.

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post #14 of 26 Old 09-26-2010, 06:00 PM
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you don't need spring compressor for 919 forks, period. USD forks, different story

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post #15 of 26 Old 09-26-2010, 06:04 PM
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see 1st pic (those are not mine btw). There is a washer under the bottom arrow, remove that slotted washer and the whole assembly will be unloaded.

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post #16 of 26 Old 09-26-2010, 07:15 PM Thread Starter
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Excellent - good info thanks.

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post #17 of 26 Old 09-27-2010, 12:02 AM
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Good stuff guys, thanks

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post #18 of 26 Old 09-27-2010, 01:39 PM
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Hoe often should you chande fork oil?

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post #19 of 26 Old 09-27-2010, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
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Hoe often should you chande fork oil?
there is no set amount in the manual.

For the track bike - 50 hours

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post #20 of 26 Old 09-27-2010, 02:20 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingston View Post
How often should you change fork oil?
The old rule used to be every two years for 'average' street milage.

Consequently I'm a year overdue

While at it change the brake fluid too.

And the engine coolant.

Three things on my list "to-do" this weekend.

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post #21 of 26 Old 09-28-2010, 05:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllanB View Post
The old rule used to be every two years for 'average' street milage.

Consequently I'm a year overdue

While at it change the brake fluid too.

And the engine coolant.

Three things on my list "to-do" this weekend.
I have had my 919 for 2.5 years and 15,000 miles. The bike has 30,000 on it. I really doubt the previous owner replaced the fluid. Maybe I'll add this to my Winter Projects list.

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post #22 of 26 Old 09-28-2010, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmurphy84 View Post
I have had my 919 for 2.5 years and 15,000 miles. The bike has 30,000 on it. I really doubt the previous owner replaced the fluid. Maybe I'll add this to my Winter Projects list.
+1, fluid and springs, maybe valves if $$ allows...

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post #23 of 26 Old 11-03-2013, 01:09 PM
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what kinda tool do you fellas use to remove and replace the oil seal ?

I had my 03 suspension rebuilt 14k ago and then decided to buy - got a virtually new 07.

Last weekend, changed the suspension from the 03 to the 07 - now find one of the 03 forks has a seal leak, so I'll change them. I did this because a friend advised me that the 03, rebuilt, suspension was now better quality than the stock 07 (gold seals, shorter springs to lower the bike to a better height for me, rear gas bottle engineered to allow refilling, ohlins rear spring).

Wondering if I need to buy a special tool to replace the fork seals - a friend suggested some pvc would do - any suggestions ?

I.L.

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post #24 of 26 Old 11-03-2013, 01:38 PM
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When I replaced the seals on my monster last week a blowtorch and screwdriver was all that was needed to pull out the old seal, being very careful not to scratch the inside of the fork tube. Seating the new seal required more blowtorch and a seal driver. I've heard of people using the PVC pipe option to good effect, but I had one from replacing the headstock bearings. I watched a few videos on standard forks (like on the 9er) since I nearly had to do the same on her before I sold her, and the process for the seal looked to be about the same. The process for separating the forks was way different, but that's a different story!

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post #25 of 26 Old 11-03-2013, 10:53 PM
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Removal: After removing the oil you remove the dust seal with pic or carefully with screwdriver. That will expose the seal snap ring inside the fork. Use a pick or screwdriver to remove the clip and move down the slider out of the way. Grab each leg with one hand and pull apart till they stop. Bring them back together a little then snap them back out quickly 3-4 times unit the forks separate. A little heat helps first.

Installation: Place a zip-lock bag on end of tube so you don't nick new seals. Order is: dust seal-snap ring-seal (remove bag now)-washer-outer bushing. Spread inner bushing open slightly with screwdriver and install on slider.

Place slider with outer bushing back in to outer tube, using washer, drive in outer bushing , then seal. Install snap ring and push in dust seal by hand. That's it.

Pics are of USD forks but same applies to conventional forks. I would get a 43mm seal driver, cartridge holding tool (although you don't have to remove cartridge to replace seals, it aids in cleaning) and oil level measuring tool.





Tools: 43mm seal driver $35 on eBay, cartridge tool probably $65 and measuring tool say $20-$25.


Robert

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2003 Honda CRF450R
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post #26 of 26 Old 11-03-2013, 11:48 PM
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A good source for what type & size forks you have, oil weight and height, etc, is racetech.com .

Click on Product Search on left of page then change option to Street on next page then bike info. I suggest buying your tools on eBay though to save money.

Note: Instructions based on USD forks, adjust accordingly for conventional forks. You probably can just omit the sandwhich bag and slide everything on/off the top of slider for example. If there is a height level groove around the slider, just put a piece of office tape over it.

Everything else should apply.

Robert

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