919 braking handling - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 23 Old 06-18-2006, 12:47 PM Thread Starter
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919 braking handling

so i've had my 9er for what, 7, 8 weeks, have put on 1,300 miles. one thing i have noticed is that when you have to brake HARD, it is almost like the back wants to lift up. kinda unsettling, and that never happened on my ol' beemer, on on the honda cb900 custom before that, or on the xs1100 before that. is it just 'cause new bikes are so much lighter than the older ones, or what? and is there any way to fix that, other than to move to arkansas where there's no insane highways?

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post #2 of 23 Old 06-18-2006, 01:21 PM
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I feel the same here... when brake hard, almost feel the bike wanna do a stopiee i doubt if there is a way can fix this:tooth:

post #3 of 23 Old 06-18-2006, 01:27 PM
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Welcome to the world of modern day sport bike brakes. Not trying to sound negative however the bikes you mentioned had mediocre brakes at best compared to the 919. As you are finding out the 919 front dual discs are excellent. Why in the world would you want to fix these excellent brakes? If you have a soft touch with your right foot, try applying a slight pressure to the rear brake at the same time as you use the front brake. These brakes could save your butt some day and you will thank them for being that good.

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post #4 of 23 Old 06-18-2006, 01:36 PM
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Try just squeezing with one or two fingers instead of your whole He-man hand, LOL, J/K.

Seriously once you get used to em its hard to go back. I came off a Dynaglide and the first 2 weeks I had the 919 I walked funny cuz I kept nuttin myself on the tank whenever I forgot I didnt need to squeeze so dang hard.

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post #5 of 23 Old 06-18-2006, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justintyme73
Try just squeezing with one or two fingers instead of your whole He-man hand, LOL, J/K
Actually you are right on the money, two fingers is all I ever use.

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post #6 of 23 Old 06-18-2006, 01:51 PM Thread Starter
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mike, the brembo brakes on my k75 could stop me just as quickly as the 919 (one of the very few ways in which the ol' beemer equals the 919). anyway, believe me, i'm not complaining, just wondering if i guess the back brakes can be adjusted so that the back brake (which i engage earlier and harder than the front brake 99.9% of the time) has a more equal impact to the braking effort as a whole, when i do have to yank the front. it feels like the back has almost no contact with the road when i have to yank the front, and, like i said, that's a little unsettling. in conclusion, tho, these brakes, and they are excellent, save my butt every time i ride, and i do thank them for being as good as they are, you're right.

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post #7 of 23 Old 06-18-2006, 01:52 PM Thread Starter
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me too on the two fingers - that's all that's ever on the front brake, but even with two fingers you can stop on a dime....

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post #8 of 23 Old 06-18-2006, 02:16 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goodhorsey
mike, the brembo brakes on my k75 could stop me just as quickly as the 919 (one of the very few ways in which the ol' beemer equals the 919). anyway, believe me, i'm not complaining, just wondering if i guess the back brakes can be adjusted so that the back brake (which i engage earlier and harder than the front brake 99.9% of the time) has a more equal impact to the braking effort as a whole, when i do have to yank the front. it feels like the back has almost no contact with the road when i have to yank the front, and, like i said, that's a little unsettling. in conclusion, tho, these brakes, and they are excellent, save my butt every time i ride, and i do thank them for being as good as they are, you're right.
Not to be too critical, but what you describe is poor braking technique. 70-80% of your braking should be coming from the front brakes. This is for the obvious reason your just explained, there is more traction on the front of the bike. When I ride, I cover the rear brake, but rarely if ever use it. At the track I have never use it.

There are a few adjustments you can make to help out depending on the model year of your 919. The first would be to add more compression dampening to your front forks. This will help prevent brake dive, keeping more bias on the rear tire. You could also add more sag to rear to keep the suspension further into its travel, or a combo of both.

BEWARE, EITHER OR BOTH OF THESE ADJUSTMENTS WILL CAUSE PROBLEMS ELSEWHERE!! Too much compression on the front will cause a stiff, uncompliant ride. This will also cause the front to ride higher in it's travel, so when cornering you will have less weight bias on the front tire and less traction. Increasing rear sag will also yield similar results as above.

I strongly suggest that you work on 2 finger braking in a parking lot some where. Also, learn to be comfortable using only your front brakes. There are 2 large front rotors and 1 small rear one for a reason. You need to work on feeling comfortable as the rear wheel gets "light" when hard on the front brakes. It will save your life for sure.

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post #9 of 23 Old 06-18-2006, 02:58 PM Thread Starter
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balbrecht, thanks for your input. um, not too many parking lots in brooklyn. and even tho i don't do track (and have no desire to) i've been riding, virtually every day, 10 months of the year, for what, 15 years, on new york city streets and highways and byways, so i am pretty settled in my ways.

your advice and warnings re adjusting front forks or rear suspension is exactly what i was looking for, tho, thank you. do you know if adjusting the rear will have a bigger or smaller impact than adjusting the front? your warning sounds dead-on right re stiff, un-compliant rides, and in this traffic i need my bike as agile as possible. i suspect i will take your advice and adjust the rear more than the front, if i adjust the front at all. again, excellent advice, thanks.

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post #10 of 23 Old 06-18-2006, 03:08 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goodhorsey
balbrecht, thanks for your input. um, not too many parking lots in brooklyn. and even tho i don't do track (and have no desire to) i've been riding, virtually every day, 10 months of the year, for what, 15 years, on new york city streets and highways and byways, so i am pretty settled in my ways.

your advice and warnings re adjusting front forks or rear suspension is exactly what i was looking for, tho, thank you. do you know if adjusting the rear will have a bigger or smaller impact than adjusting the front? your warning sounds dead-on right re stiff, un-compliant rides, and in this traffic i need my bike as agile as possible. i suspect i will take your advice and adjust the rear more than the front, if i adjust the front at all. again, excellent advice, thanks.
I would play with both settings and even a combination of the two to find the best feel for you. A lot will depend on your riding position, style, etc. I would try adding more compression to the forks first, as this is the easiest adjustment to make, as well as the easiest to undo if you don't like it.

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post #11 of 23 Old 06-19-2006, 08:56 PM
 
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I hit the track earlier this month for the first time, let me tell you the 919 brakes are frickin amazing. There's nothing like slowing down from 135-50 in what... 200 feet? to make you appreciate them. The back end definately felt light.

I wish I had adjustable forks on my '02 so I could dial up the preload/compression, the dive isn't too bad but it's definately noticeable when I'm braking hard... though I am 200lbs.

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post #12 of 23 Old 06-19-2006, 09:22 PM
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Take one of the rotors off.

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post #13 of 23 Old 06-19-2006, 09:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ragdoll
Take one of the rotors off.

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post #14 of 23 Old 06-19-2006, 09:49 PM
 
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Speaking of brakes, without any track use what kind of lifespam do the front and rear pads have?

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post #15 of 23 Old 06-19-2006, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flatovercrest
Speaking of brakes, without any track use what kind of lifespam do the front and rear pads have?
Hard to say....I would think it depends on your riding style.

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post #16 of 23 Old 06-20-2006, 12:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flatovercrest
Speaking of brakes, without any track use what kind of lifespam do the front and rear pads have?

19,300 miles on OEM fronts and still have lining left. They are at about 2-3 32nds now and getting close... but just keep lasting and lasting. I do a pretty good mix or city & highway... and I ride and brake hard.. er, I mean in a "spirited" manner. Been through 3, and on my fourth set of rears... but one was the cheapy organic EBC and they were too soft. Melted away in under 3000 miles. I guess I use the rear brake more heavily than most. In my defense, rear pads are about $30 and fronts are about $70... not that I care that much about that small of an amount of money. I got almost 8000 from the first set of rears and about 8000 on the EBC HH (Double H) rears. I plan on testing the EBC HH on the front next.. that is, if they ever bloody wear out! I bought them like 4000 miles back and I am still waiting. Go figure?

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post #17 of 23 Old 06-21-2006, 06:37 AM
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I killed my rear pads at the Tail of The Dragon last year. 5k miles and had to replace them. Front still good, got 11k now. All depends how hard you use them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by flatovercrest
Speaking of brakes, without any track use what kind of lifespam do the front and rear pads have?

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post #18 of 23 Old 06-21-2006, 06:18 PM
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The only reason to ever touch the back brake is in a situation of questionable traction, like rain or gravel. Wearing out a set of rear pads in 5k is recipe for disaster.

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post #19 of 23 Old 06-21-2006, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Sniper
The only reason to ever touch the back brake is in a situation of questionable traction, like rain or gravel. Wearing out a set of rear pads in 5k is recipe for disaster.
Sorry Sniper, but I beg to differ.. (no disrespect however)
It all depends on where you ride and the conditions you're riding in.

While using a set of rear pads in 5k is pretty extreme I'll grant you, I have always tended to go through rear pads a tad quicker than front ones.
That's because I trail the rear brake very VERY slightly while filtering (lane splitting) at low speeds. This frees my throttle hand for finer control, helps maintain control while manuvering between cars and is instantly available if some knob in his tin tortoise does something unexpected.
I ride twice every day in peak hour traffic..

However, once I'm out of the traffic, or doing my "thang" on the weekends, then the rear gets it's normal vestigial use, either to "blip" the brake light so the guy following me knows I may be about to ease up or just to maintain control in u-turns etc.

I also tend to trail the rear brake a little just before applying front brake pressure. Can't really explain or justify this other than to say I find it helps me set the bike up for main braking action.

All this light, yet relatively frequent dragging wears the brake pads quicker than the short but harder front brake applications.

At least this is MY experience.
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post #20 of 23 Old 06-23-2006, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoCycho
I plan on testing the EBC HH on the front next..

EBC HH are total shit... They were good pads 10 years ago when there were no other HH pads readily available on the market, but they are very dated now & have always had warpage problems that caused parasitic drag on the rotors. There are tons of better products that offer more feel, stopping power, longevity & less wear & tear on your rotors. Stay away from the EBC's & Ferodo SinterGrip ST's (very inconsistent performance)

The real bottom line here is the OEM Honda pads on several of their sportbikes are so good that they out perform many of the aftermarket pads. The Honda pads on the 919 offer an excellent combination of stopping power, longevity & feedback that no other OEM pads provides & are relatively inexpensive as long as you don't don't to buy them from a dealer that wants to do you without vaseline.

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post #21 of 23 Old 06-23-2006, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DropBear 9
I have always tended to go through rear pads a tad quicker than front ones.
That's because I trail the rear brake very VERY slightly while filtering (lane splitting) at low speeds. This frees my throttle hand for finer control, helps maintain control while manuvering between cars and is instantly available if some knob in his tin tortoise does something unexpected.
I ride twice every day in peak hour traffic..

However, once I'm out of the traffic, or doing my "thang" on the weekends, then the rear gets it's normal vestigial use, either to "blip" the brake light so the guy following me knows I may be about to ease up or just to maintain control in u-turns etc.

I also tend to trail the rear brake a little just before applying front brake pressure. Can't really explain or justify this other than to say I find it helps me set the bike up for main braking action.
You sir are no doubt a slow rider At real speeds you don't have time to tap the rear prior to applying pressure to the fronts nor does covering the back brake afford you any true advantage in a panic situation. Stabbing the rear brake when a cager does something stupid is a surefire way to get thrown off your bike trying to make anyone think anything other is an excercise in futility. The top of the line racers utilize the back brake as it does provide additional stopping power, but it is an ancillary action at best.

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post #22 of 23 Old 06-23-2006, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Sniper
The only reason to ever touch the back brake is in a situation of questionable traction, like rain or gravel. Wearing out a set of rear pads in 5k is recipe for disaster.
I only use the rear brake in emergency situations or parking lots. When out riding the twisty roads I tend to use more engine brake that the rear brake itself. I really rely on the front brake mostly. I feel that when the RPM's are high enough there is adequet rear wheel resistance to balance the bike while setting up for the turn. I am not confident enough to drift my rear tire into a turn on the street. When watching someone do it on the track is cool as hell. That is not me. I find that using too much rear brake does not give me what i want. I does help wear out the rear tire faster.

post #23 of 23 Old 06-24-2006, 01:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter
You sir are no doubt a slow rider
heh heh, I hears ya.. never made claim to being a racer.. but I don't think I'm that slow either. The group of wannabe boy racers (at least one on a CBR, and one on a duc) I left for dust through the twisties this arve will vouch for me on that.
And yes they were giving it some, we chatted at the servo.. when they finally got there.. The Hornet rocks through the twisties don't it!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by LDH
At real speeds you don't have time to tap the rear prior to applying pressure to the fronts nor does covering the back brake afford you any true advantage in a panic situation. Stabbing the rear brake when a cager does something stupid is a surefire way to get thrown off your bike trying to make anyone think anything other is an excercise in futility.
Couldn't agree more, but the stabbing is only a concept (more like just keeping the brake covered really) for when, as I say, I'm manoeuvring between the idiot cagers at little more than walking speeds, sometimes less, not barreling along with them at traffic speeds.

I'm also under no illusion that my techniques in general are anything other than what works for me, and have served me well lo these last twenty some odd years (every stinkin' day it seems) in rush hour traffic without major incident.
So I don't plan to make any radical changes this late in the game.

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