900rr engine/guage swap??? - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 8 Old 10-19-2008, 08:30 AM Thread Starter
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900rr engine/guage swap???

Okay, I have a wrecked 02' 919 but the engine cases have some "issues" that are going to be a pain to repair. I have access to an early year CBR900rr engine but am concerned about how difficult the swap will be. I need some info from the experts.

1. Physical swap concerns: mounting points, envelope size issues, etc?

2. Fuel injection: will the stock 919 throttle bodies mount up to the 900rr engine? I'm assuming that they will but???

3. Cooling: I'm not sure I'll need a slightly bigger radiator unless I produce more power. With the 919 throttle bodies, I may not therfore the stock 919 radiator might work?

4. Electrically: I'm considering running 900RR guages because mine are trashed as well. With some clever splicing I should be able to use the 900RR information senders and the corresponding guages as well as run the 919 fuel injection.

Thanks in advance for any help you guys can give me.

Jeff
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post #2 of 8 Old 10-19-2008, 09:30 AM
 
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post #3 of 8 Old 10-19-2008, 10:18 AM
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I'm assuming the "issues" with the 919 cases involve broken front engine mounts -- common when sliders are mounted on the engine rather than the frame. They can be welded back on, but that would involve a complete teardown.
All CBR900's (as opposed to 929 and 954) are carbureted, and any swap will have to include the carbs and ignition unit.
While the 919's motor is based on the CBR900, there are detail changes that would make adapting the fuel injection a pain, most notably the lack of a cam (TDC) sensor, and the crank sensor is configured with a missing tooth for ignition sync to the original trigger box (which incidentally is not a CDI type). Another issue is with the port sizes: the CBR has larger intake ports than the 919, so the throttle bodies would be too restrictive. There are all sorts of minor things as well: incorrect fuel and ignition mapping, too low rev limiter setting, no ECT sensor, and the 919 airbox won't mate up to the carbs, and the semi downdraft carbs may have interference issues with the frame backbone, and, and, and ... You get the idea.

As far as I know the motor will bolt in, but I'm sure there will be issues with that as well. I have heard of the swap being done, but have no details.

You have some decisions to make here -- good luck with this, and remember to post any other questions you may have: there is considerable talent and experience here.

Rob

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post #4 of 8 Old 10-19-2008, 10:26 AM Thread Starter
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Well Poo...................

Thanks for the insight, it looks as if I'm going to have to re-weld the cases. The bike was crashed on the right side and the impact was so hard, the right ignition cover was torn off.



I think I can get it welded back together, especially now since the 900RR engine swap trouble has me more motivated!

I'll take pictures as I go, this should be fun!

Jeff
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post #5 of 8 Old 10-19-2008, 10:57 AM
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wow... you didnt by anychance do that when you were making your avatar picture did you??? cause if you did you can tell me ... i know how to keep secrets...



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post #6 of 8 Old 10-19-2008, 11:58 AM
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After doing some research, there is a possibility the 919's head will drop onto the CBR block -- the head gaskets listed on the Cometic website are the same number.
First, measure the mounts on both motors as accurately as possible -- I'm willing to bet they will be the same or very close. If they are press on. If not, ah well.
I recommend removing the pulser cover from the CBR motor and comparing the rotor and pickup position to the 919's -- if the rotor is different roll both up to TDC, remove the rotors from both motors and compare the ends of the crankshafts where they mount. Three criteria are important here; first, will they physically interchange; second, are the keys / flats / whatever is used to hold the rotors accurately oriented the same way in rotation; and third, are their diameters the same. If these criteria are met the 919 rotor will bolt up to the CBR crank and provide timing signals to the ECU. The other signals the ECU needs are provided by the sensors mounted in the head.
The only other issue is the cam timing. The cam sprockets have the same number of teeth, so no problem there, but the crank sprocket may be phased differently, which may require installing the 919 sprocket on the CBR crank, on the assumption Honda made few changes to the tooling for the major components such as the crank and kept the same orientation of the splines.

There are a number of things that may be deal breakers in doing a head swap, but knowing Honda it's quite possible. You have to remove and tear down the motor anyway, so it would be worth looking into doing a mix 'n match to make your life a little easier.
One thing's sure -- you will learn volumes about the internals of the engine and could well become the go to man for questions on this forum!

Rob

If it has already been done, it is safe to assume it is possible to do it.
On the other hand, if it has not been done never assume it is impossible to do it.
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post #7 of 8 Old 10-19-2008, 03:25 PM
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if thats your bike Rob, shes beautiful man, A+





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post #8 of 8 Old 10-19-2008, 07:35 PM
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You two need to communicate about needed parts.

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