5-spoke RC51 wheels on the 919? - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 44 Old 08-05-2007, 06:30 PM Thread Starter
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5-spoke RC51 wheels on the 919?

Before I bought my 919 I wanted to get one just to build a project bike similar to the EMA 919. http://www.ema-usa.com/bow/ema919.shtml
I don't want to go quite that wild, but I want the RC51 front end on it.

I have the RC51 fork legs, but the completed project is still a long ways off. To keep the 3-spoke wheel theme of the 919 I have a 954 wheel with RC51 bearings, spacers, and axle, but now I'm thinking of going 5-spoke just to try something different, which will be easy on the front end since everything else is already RC51, but I don't know what to expect for the rear end. I'm sure the RC51 rim is 6" instead of 5.5", and would take a 190 tire instead of a 180, but does anyone know if the RC51 axle diameter and width (outer edge, spacer to spacer) is close or the same as the 919?

If it's a fairly easy swap I'd like to try RC51 wheels front and rear, but if it's a huge job with lots of machining, I'll forget the whole idea.

Anyone have experience with both bikes and know if the RC wheel would be a fairly easy swap?

Thanks,
Mike

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post #2 of 44 Old 08-06-2007, 08:49 AM
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I wish I could answer your questions, but I too have dreamed of my 919 having the 5 spoke wheels.

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post #3 of 44 Old 08-06-2007, 09:13 AM
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The RC-51 wheels fit on my bike.

'02 RC-51
'10 Unicycle

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post #4 of 44 Old 08-06-2007, 09:16 AM
 
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post #5 of 44 Old 08-06-2007, 09:41 AM
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post #6 of 44 Old 08-06-2007, 01:09 PM
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I've never been a big fan of the 3-spoke motorcycle wheel. When I bought my new 2005 600RR the first thing that I got rid of were the OEM wheels and I bolted up a set of PVM's black 5 Y-spoke (Marchesini look-a-likes). Your best bet is trying to machine spacers to fit other wheels like RC51's. It has to be done correctly to make sure alignment is spot on. I've seen RC51 wheels adapted to an XR650 street supermoto.

Believe me. . .I did all the research on finding wheels for the 919, especially Marchesini and PVM. Marchesini had them available at one time and PVM USA (EMA is the distributor. They were lucky to get a set on their 919.) will only now import only the popular sportbike wheels IF they can get them from Germany. ---The 919 3-spoke has since grown on me (I have no choice). Let us 9ers know if you decide to pursue fitting the RC51 wheels.

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post #7 of 44 Old 08-06-2007, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9nineteen View Post
. . . I've seen RC51 wheels adapted to an XR650 street supermoto. . .
Here are a couple of pics of the the XR. So almost anything is possible.



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post #8 of 44 Old 08-06-2007, 02:24 PM
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Those are probably older CBR wheels on that XR. The rear wheel is narrower than the RC51 wheel.

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post #9 of 44 Old 08-06-2007, 02:34 PM
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post #10 of 44 Old 08-06-2007, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by royalchoppers View Post
Those are probably older CBR wheels on that XR. The rear wheel is narrower than the RC51 wheel.
Yup, you are correct royalchoppers!! Here's quote from the builder/owner of that trick XR650:

"...if you were talking about the repsol bike it has stock honda cbr wheels that i machined to fit.the front is from a 98 cbr 600r which is a 17x3.5 and the rear is off a 97 cbr 900rr which is a 5.5 wide.barely fits in the rear!"

Which still boils down to. . . almost anything is possible.

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post #11 of 44 Old 09-19-2007, 03:15 PM
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Well I was weak. . .I changed my wheels.

I can never get myself to like the three-spoke wheels on any bike. I converted my '04 GSXR600 wheels to Marchesinis and my '05 CBR600RR to PVMs. I tried to like the 3-spokers on my 919. . .but I just couldn't. I tried in vain to find Marchesinis and PVMs but all have been discontinued for the 919. After some research, this is the outcome of my weakness (and saved BIG $$$ in doing so):








Some information:

2001 919 Rotors:
296mm Front
240mm Rear

1997 CBR900RR Rotors:
296mm Front
220mm Rear

1996 CBR600f3 Rotors:
296mm Front
220mm Rear


919 to CBR900RR Rear Wheel/CBR600f3 Front Wheel Conversion Parts:

Honda '93-'98 CBR900RR black six-spoke rear wheel
Honda '93-'98 CBR900RR 220mm rear rotor
Honda '97 CBR900RR caliper carrier for 220mm rotor
Honda '95-'96 CBR600f3 black six-spoke front rim
Honda '95-'96 CBR600f3 296mm front brake rotors (early 10 button)

Honda '95-'96 CBR600f3 Collars/spacers and axle

Honda '02-'03 CBR954RR front master cylinder
Honda '02-'03 CBR954RR front brake calipers
Honda '02-'03 rear brake caliper
Honda '97 CBR900RR clutch perch

Galfer Smoke/Carbon SS Brake Lines
XRMikey's Super Cool Brake Line Holder

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post #12 of 44 Old 09-19-2007, 03:51 PM Thread Starter
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LOOKS AWESOME!!!!! SO much better than stock!!
Great technical info as well!

By the way, what brand rear sprocket is that? I like the design.

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post #13 of 44 Old 09-19-2007, 03:55 PM
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Addendum

Honda '02-'03 CBR954RR front master cylinder
Honda '02-'03 CBR954RR front brake calipers
Honda '02-'03 CBR954RR rear brake caliper
Honda '97 CBR900RR clutch perch

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post #14 of 44 Old 09-19-2007, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdtoney View Post
LOOKS AWESOME!!!!! SO much better than stock!!
Great technical info as well!

By the way, what brand rear sprocket is that? I like the design.
Renthal



. . .and a VORTEX countershaft sprocket



BTW mdtoney, like you, I really wanted the USD fork conversion too. I had a mint set of 954 forks all set to be installed. I decided to sell them. ---I have to draw the modding line sometime.

Note that the 919's stock front rotor carriers are metal, for those who didn't know.

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post #15 of 44 Old 09-19-2007, 04:45 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9nineteen View Post
BTW mdtoney, like you, I really wanted the USD fork conversion too. I had a mint set of 954 forks all set to be installed. I decided to sell them. ---I have to draw the modding line sometime.
Someday I'll do it... I originally thought the USD fork project would take about 6 months... but here I am more than a year and a half later and I only have about half the parts I need. I guess that's what a divorce will do for you. Fortunately, I traded her in for a younger model that wants me to buy more toys (street bikes, dirt bikes, truck, boat, jet skis, etc.) and modify/customize EVERYTHING!

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post #16 of 44 Old 09-19-2007, 04:48 PM
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9nineteen, I've got a rear cbr wheel on the way to hopefully kind of match my front Marvic Penta (I know it's 6 spoke vs. 5), will my 919 rotor and sprocket fit on the cbr wheel? I am not really interesting in going too far with the upgrades to the rear wheel since I've already spent three times what the bike is worth in other mods. I agree about the 3 spoke wheels, not cool. Even worse on a car!

By the way, your bike is very cool, and it's impressive you've gotten so much done to it in such a short time.

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post #17 of 44 Old 09-19-2007, 05:22 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9nineteen View Post
Some information:

2001 919 Rotors:
296mm Front
240mm Rear

1997 CBR900RR Rotors:
296mm Front
220mm Rear

1996 CBR600f3 Rotors:
296mm Front
220mm Rear


919 to CBR900RR Rear Wheel/CBR600f3 Front Wheel Conversion Parts:

Honda '93-'98 CBR900RR black six-spoke rear wheel
Honda '93-'98 CBR900RR 220mm rear rotor
Honda '97 CBR900RR caliper carrier for 220mm rotor
Honda '95-'96 CBR600f3 black six-spoke front rim
Honda '95-'96 CBR600f3 296mm front brake rotors (early 10 button)

Honda '95-'96 CBR600f3 Collars/spacers and axle

Honda '02-'03 CBR954RR front master cylinder
Honda '02-'03 CBR954RR front brake calipers
Honda '02-'03 rear brake caliper
Honda '97 CBR900RR clutch perch

Galfer Smoke/Carbon SS Brake Lines
XRMikey's Super Cool Brake Line Holder
Now you have me thinking...

I started buying parts for my (eventual) RC-51 fork swap; I originally bought a 954 front wheel (to keep with the 919's 3-spoke theme) and bought RC-51 front wheel bearings, spacers, & axel to mount the wheel to the RC-51 forks. Do you know if the outer diameter of the RC-51 front wheel bearings would fit inside a CBR600 front wheel? That 6-spoke design appeals to me much more than the stock 3-spoke or the RC-51 5-spoke designs. I also have a leftover 954 front brake system (calipers, lines, MC).
It seems like it might be a lot of work to get the entire front end to work correctly... RC-51 forks & rotors, CBR600 wheel, CBR954 Brake calipers...

Also, would the stock 919 rear rotor bolt onto that f3 rear wheel? Seems like it would save a lot of time, and money. And since the front rotors are all the same size, could someone use their 919 rotors on that f3 wheel, or is the spacing different?

Just thinking out loud....

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post #18 of 44 Old 09-19-2007, 07:16 PM
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hey 9nineteen wheels look fantastic I now want to do the same, was the conversion to the CBR954RR front master cylinder , front brake calipers ,rear brake caliper and CBR900RR clutch perch a must or just an upgrade thx

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post #19 of 44 Old 09-19-2007, 09:13 PM
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Here's the low down on what I know on the details on fitting the CBR RR six-spoke wheels on a 919. . .

I don't know if the bearings would swap out between the f3 and RC51. I was focused on fitting the CBR RR wheels on my 919, I was willing to forego the whole USD fork idea. But it did cross my mind. . .fitting the six-spoke wheel to the 954 fork I had bought. I added the $$$ in my head and I quickly lost the drive to mount the forks. Mounting would only lead to more mods I envisioned. . .599 headlight, etc. etc. etc.

I used a CBR900RR rear wheel, not an f3 rear wheel. I didn't go as far cross-referencing the rear wheels of the 900RR and the f3. They do look similar. The cush drive of the 919 is a direct match to the 900RR which led me to obtaining the RR rear wheel ($85 shipped, Ebay!!). ALL 919 collars, axle, and rotor will bolt right up to the 900RR rear wheel. . .it's a direct swap. It was too simple. . .so simple that I wanted a little challenge of using the RR's smaller/racy rear rotor. That required the use of the 900RR's caliper mount ($12 shipped, Ebay). Even that was a minor fabrication. EZ.

The front was a little more of a challenge. I was shooting in the dark. I first purchased a 900RR because it uses 296mm rotors (which is the same diameter as the 919), but I didn't research deep enough to find that it was a 16 inch wheel. It also would've required machining collars to fit the wheel on the 919s forks. I was looking for an all bolt on solution using all Honda parts. For those reasons the 900RR wheel was resold. ---Further research found the CBR600f3, which is a six-spoke wheel was a better fit . . . an almost a perfect fit. Things to note are: f2 wheels are six-spoke as well, but have fixed rotors not floating rotors; early f3 296mm rotors have 10 buttons and later f3's had 8 buttons (for cost cutting reasons). The more buttons the rotor has, the better heat disappation. The last model years of the f3 had 310mm rotors on 3-spoke wheels. ---With that knowledge, I bought a complete early f3 wheel (mounted with a fairly new Metzler, which I'll resell) with 10 button rotors, and with axle/collars ($110, Ebay). Though 919's and f3's are very similar, the f3's forks are set a few milimeters narrower. By mixing and matching 919 and f3 collars (see photo) all fit PERFECTLY!! The calipers had to be shimmed 1.5mm inward. Done.

954 brakes/master cylinder are upgrades and are not necessary for the conversion. CBR900RR clutch perch does not have the mirror mount for a clean look when using bar end mirrors.

Looking directly at the photo (right side of axle is on left) in order of sequence:
1) Mounting bolt
2) Right side 919 collar
3) Left side 919 collar
4) F3 collar, left or right will work
5) 919 axle
6) Above are shims (ss washers)


Everything works perfectly.

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post #20 of 44 Old 09-19-2007, 09:53 PM
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Here are 296mm rotor comparisons:

1) 919 top
2) f3 early
3) f3 later




Keep in mind:

The early CBR RR six-spoke wheels will not work with 310mm and 330mm rotors found on the newer three-spoke wheels. The center bores and 6-bolt mounting patterns are different.

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post #21 of 44 Old 09-19-2007, 11:32 PM
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Do you see any resemblance between the early CBR's six-spoke wheels (made by Japanese wheel manufacturer Enkei) and the wheels on Nicky's RC212V?? Hmmm. . .


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post #22 of 44 Old 09-21-2007, 12:11 PM
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correction:

"The early CBR f3 six-spoke wheels will not work with 310mm and 330mm rotors found on the newer three-spoke wheels. The center bores and 6-bolt mounting patterns are different."

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post #23 of 44 Old 06-11-2010, 04:41 PM
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9ninteen: Based on your tutorial I bought myself an F3 wheel and just put it on my bike. I have no idea where you got 1.5mm for the shims from because on mine, it's way off. I'm going to need at least a 3-4mm shim in order to center my rotors in my calipers. I think I'm going to have to machine some shims or at least double up on the washers. Just thought this would be good to add to the thread.

My bike is a 2007 919 so maybe that has something to do with it...?

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post #24 of 44 Old 06-12-2010, 09:23 AM
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You should have bought a Super Duke. Comes with all that stuff.

Replace the EPA mandated boat anchor of a stock muffler with nice light FMF CF cans, have the dealership remap the stock ECU for you. Then ride. You're finished. No shopping list of parts to buy.

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post #25 of 44 Old 06-12-2010, 09:56 AM
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on the rear you should be able to use a cbr900rr wheel, and it bolt right up, and still give you the 5 spoke look...

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post #26 of 44 Old 06-12-2010, 08:02 PM
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Funny isn't it - me I personally like the stock 3 spoke wheels.

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post #27 of 44 Old 06-14-2010, 05:22 PM
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I swapped out to the F3 wheel because I dented the living hell out of my 3-spoke when I hit a rock the size of a softball. Getting the F3 wheel was 8x cheaper than a new 919 stock front from the stealership.

So I used 4 washers on each side to shim the calipers. I'm thinking I may have to make some custom spacers on the lathe as I don't know if it's good to use 8 washers....


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post #28 of 44 Old 06-14-2010, 05:56 PM
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Looks nice!

Has anyone compared the weight between stock and the 900rr/F3 swap?

I'm curious if it's lighter or heavier and by how much.

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post #29 of 44 Old 06-15-2010, 09:38 PM
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Unbelievably different.... so different that the handling of the bike is DRAMATICALLY BETTER The stock front I pulled off is HEAVIER than the 900RR rear it bought. I can't wait to see how that stock rear compares.

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post #30 of 44 Old 06-16-2010, 03:01 AM
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Now ditch the crappy Hi Sports for a new set of Pilot Powers. You can thank me later

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post #31 of 44 Old 06-16-2010, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallybanger View Post
Unbelievably different.... so different that the handling of the bike is DRAMATICALLY BETTER The stock front I pulled off is HEAVIER than the 900RR rear it bought. I can't wait to see how that stock rear compares.
If you are weighing with the brake rotors installed, I would think the front with2 large disks would always be heavier than the rear with a single small disk, right?

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post #32 of 44 Old 06-23-2010, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper View Post
Now ditch the crappy Hi Sports for a new set of Pilot Powers. You can thank me later
I will when I burn the hi sports off. I just bought a new 900RR wheel which came with a Pirelli Diablo which should be better. Good enough for now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by catonsvilleguy View Post
If you are weighing with the brake rotors installed, I would think the front with2 large disks would always be heavier than the rear with a single small disk, right?
Not that much different! If you do the swap you'll know what I mean.

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post #33 of 44 Old 06-23-2010, 02:56 PM
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OK, the stock rear with hi-sport and 900RR with Diablo, no disks or drives, both weigh 26lbs.

The stock front, no tire but both disks weighs 16.4lbs. The 900RR rear, no tire, disk or drive weighs 15lbs. Now I just want the weight of the F3 front for comparison.

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post #34 of 44 Old 12-28-2010, 04:15 PM
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I have been trial fitting my rc51 rear wheel today on my 919.....even though i have a cbr600rr swingarm fitted! it should just be a case of modifying the spacers to suit and i will probably shorten the rc51 wheel spindle.
It looks like to me that to get the rc51 wheel to fit to the standard swingarm that you would probably be better off trying to get some new wheel bearings to fit your standard wheel spindle and maybe alter the standard spacers to fit.
The rc51 rear spindle is a lot thicker and longer and it is hollow so it is a lot lighter than the standard 919 item.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/woodyeee/IMAG0306.jpg
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post #35 of 44 Old 01-04-2011, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper View Post
Now ditch the crappy Hi Sports for a new set of Pilot Powers. You can thank me later
That's funny stuff, man!
I do agree about the Hi-Sports. I replaced mine on my last bike within a month or less.

I guess I'd feel shamed if I were to mention that the 04 9'r I just bought had nearly new Pilot Powers on it and I replaced them with Dunlop D616's. Hey, it rains a lot where I live and I just felt a bit safer with some tread pattern designed for wet roads. Some may scorn me, but friends in my area think I made a good choice. Now if I can find someone to buy my nearly new Pilot Powers for a cheap price I won't have to find room to store them in my already-packed garage!

"He put WHAT tires on his 919?" (you may be asking yourself).
This pic was shot yesterday at the shop...


I'll post my opinion of the D616 tires after I break them in and go for a nice ride.

And speaking of Pirelli Diablo tires someone mentioned, those are the last set I had on my previous 919 and I loved them.

BTW, another reason I went with the Dunlop D616 is because I'm not a teenager anymore and don't ride as aggressive in the twisties these days as I used to before I started getting bald and gray, so I don't really need hypersport tires rated for mach speeds while draggin some knee.


Oh, forgot to mention... after reading this thread and seeing pics posted, now I'm going to be looking for new 5-spoke wheels! Ironically, I was just telling the owner of my favorite local bike shop how much I hate the 3 spoke wheels, then I find this thread the next morning!

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post #36 of 44 Old 01-04-2011, 09:51 AM
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you should try the pilot roads 2... AWESOME tires, great grip all around, and does well in the rain.

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post #37 of 44 Old 01-04-2011, 01:22 PM
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I like those D616's.

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post #38 of 44 Old 03-11-2013, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodyeee View Post
I have been trial fitting my rc51 rear wheel today on my 919.....even though i have a cbr600rr swingarm fitted! it should just be a case of modifying the spacers to suit and i will probably shorten the rc51 wheel spindle.
It looks like to me that to get the rc51 wheel to fit to the standard swingarm that you would probably be better off trying to get some new wheel bearings to fit your standard wheel spindle and maybe alter the standard spacers to fit.
The rc51 rear spindle is a lot thicker and longer and it is hollow so it is a lot lighter than the standard 919 item.
Did you ever finish fitting the wheel?

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post #39 of 44 Old 03-13-2013, 03:37 PM
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I cant remember why but it was a lot easier to fit the old fireblade wheel as they fit straight in without any modifications, and they also match the rc51 front wheel too.
I didnt want the 190 section rc51 tire as the standard size is 180.
The rc51 rear wheel was worth more money to sell and the fireblade rear wheel are very cheap to buy.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/woodyeee/IMAG0306.jpg
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post #40 of 44 Old 03-24-2013, 06:20 AM
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Pictures?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallybanger View Post
I swapped out to the F3 wheel because I dented the living hell out of my 3-spoke when I hit a rock the size of a softball. Getting the F3 wheel was 8x cheaper than a new 919 stock front from the stealership.

So I used 4 washers on each side to shim the calipers. I'm thinking I may have to make some custom spacers on the lathe as I don't know if it's good to use 8 washers....

Could you please post some close up pictures of the washers?

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