17/44... am I the only one that hates it? - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 22 Old 04-19-2015, 11:41 AM Thread Starter
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17/44... am I the only one that hates it?

So I did the 520 17/44 swap this past week, followed by about 600 miles of varied riding this weekend, including the slab, dirt roads, twisties, and a long bicycle race (as pace). I went with it due to all the positive comments here, but I'm totally hating it.

I know, I know, I shouldn't have tried to fix what wasn't broken. I felt that the gearing on the 919 was perfect for my kind of riding, but went and tried it anyway. Now I'm really regretting it. I just kept constantly finding myself at lower revs than I wanted. On the slab, at 80mph, I felt like I needed to downshift to make any kind of pass, or if I slowed down a bit. Ended up mostly hanging in 5th. On tight twisty switchbacks (Arden Valley Road by Bear Mountain for example), I'd be fighting between 2nd and 1st instead of just happily dropping down to 2nd. I guess I like my motorcycle revvy, and not feeling complacent.

Anyone have anything good to say about 16/44? Or is there a reason to avoid it and go 17/45 instead?

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post #2 of 22 Old 04-19-2015, 12:07 PM
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its all what makes you happy, man! depending on what im doing, i swap front sprockets from 15-16-17 on a fairly regular basis. I find it easier to swap my front sprocket, as it can be done on the side stand in just a few minutes with very minimal effort. front sprockets are also less expensive. if you end up with 16-44 and want a little more rev, you can add a tooth to the back, or two. or subtract if you want a little lower rev. by then you are getting into picky ratios that could more easily be adjusted by yelling "this is sparta!" inside your helmet and goring more quickly.

30,000 mile 919 survivor. No plans of stopping the abuse any time soon.
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post #3 of 22 Old 04-19-2015, 12:17 PM
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I've been on 17/44 (530) for about 30K miles. I like the taller gearing especially shifting from 1st to 2nd with just a little loss of acceleration. For me it made it a little less buzzy on the highway too. If you were happy with stock, I would just go back to that. If the sprockets don't have many miles on them, you can probably sell them here to recoup some of your money.

Good luck in getting it where you like it.

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post #4 of 22 Old 04-19-2015, 12:54 PM
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I agree with Scat and also MMike. The point here is that there is no perfect gearing that fits everyone. You have to see what works for your riding style and activity. In the end, don't be dis-appointed, just expand your sprocket collection like Scrat. You may find a use for each set up. Just my 2 cents....

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post #5 of 22 Old 04-19-2015, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark57 View Post
I agree with Scat and also MMike. The point here is that there is no perfect gearing that fits everyone. You have to see what works for your riding style and activity. In the end, don't be dis-appointed, just expand your sprocket collection like Scrat. You may find a use for each set up. Just my 2 cents....
I've had the 16/44 combo for over a year now. I really like it. It has more torque than the stock gearing without being over the top.

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post #6 of 22 Old 04-19-2015, 01:21 PM
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I'm real happy at 17/44...but everybody's boat is gonna float differently...if you hate it, you'll change it to find your sweet spot...

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post #7 of 22 Old 04-19-2015, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K1w1Boy View Post
I'm real happy at 17/44...but everybody's boat is gonna float differently...if you hate it, you'll change it to find your sweet spot...
This. Sorry that you don't like it.

I love the 17/44 not because it's in that one sweet spot, but rather because it fits the most situations the best. From track, to in town, to rush hour, to commuting, to canyon carving, to slabbing and feel like I'm not missing or regretting the ratio change. It's not just gearing changes, it's also about changing riding habits and adjusting how the tool is used for a specific situation. For example with the 17/44, I will often forget to shift into 6th if I'm not at freeway speeds and as such have instant access to acceleration. Yet 6th is not too tall that I MUST shift in order to accelerate, but it won't snap my neck either which is what you'll be used too lol.

Doesn't help that you're on a small island so the stock/lower gearing may be better for you. I agree with others, if you don't like it, sell it and change your gearing. You'll recoup some costs that way.

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post #8 of 22 Old 04-19-2015, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazaev View Post
So I did the 520 17/44 swap this past week, followed by about 600 miles of varied riding this weekend, including the slab, dirt roads, twisties, and a long bicycle race (as pace). I went with it due to all the positive comments here, but I'm totally hating it.

Anyone have anything good to say about 16/44? Or is there a reason to avoid it and go 17/45 instead?
You might want to select the new sprocket based on how much adjustment you have with the current new chain. If you have adjustment to spare then you could try the 16/44. If you don't - jump to the 45 rear.

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post #9 of 22 Old 04-19-2015, 04:50 PM
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I have a 16t 520 that came from LDH for sale. It is used but in very good condition. Also have a 16t 530.

2004 919 Uranium

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post #10 of 22 Old 04-19-2015, 04:53 PM
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BTW, the 16 44 is CRAZY. Makes the bike a fricking rocket. Lots of revs at hwy speeds though. No downshifting. basically only need 1st and 6th on the bike.

2004 919 Uranium

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post #11 of 22 Old 04-19-2015, 06:54 PM
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16/43 is stock correct.

I have stuck with the stock gearing on mine for the reasons that the OP found out. For the riding i do, the 17/44 setup would of put me right between 1st n 2nd in alot of the tight twisties that i find myself in 2nd in.

I did at one point try 15/43 ... that was too much, the front tire just didnt want to stay on the ground haha.
tiny likes this.

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post #12 of 22 Old 04-19-2015, 07:12 PM
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Stock gearing on the 919 and SV650 are the only two bikes of about 25 that I thought were geared as close to perfect as you could get.

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post #13 of 22 Old 04-19-2015, 07:25 PM
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I had stock, one up, and one down.

Honda got this one right. I went back to stock, and stayed there. The 17 was a cheap Speedo Healer, tho.

On the 599 tho, I thought it was geared a bit short. I went -2 on the rear. After re-jetting, the 599 had the power to pull the taller gears, pretty much like stock lean and short. But with the taller gears and jetting, the bike got much smoother.

Come to thin of it, most of the Hondas I've owned were geared right on the money.

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post #14 of 22 Old 04-20-2015, 03:02 PM
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No sir you are not alone when it comes to disliking the 17/44 mod. There are a helluva lot of 919 owners that love it and I sell about twenty 17/44 kits to any other gearing combination there is for the 919, but yes there are some riders that simply don't like the 17/44 kit.

In my experiences with actual customers that don't like the 17/44 kit they typically tend to be either weekend hooligans that are just looking to pop some wheelies and tear ass around from stoplight to stoplight or they are point and shoot riders that rely on hammering the gas on corner exit to make up time rather than being able to maintain proper cornerspeed and exit the turn smooth and fast. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion, it is simply a matter of riding technique and the most proficient riders already know that the 919 just doesn't really have the horsepower to make up for a deficit in cornerspeed so they modify their riding style to suit the bike and the 17/44 allows them to ride the torque curve of the motor longer between shifts and make use of that broad curve rather than relying on peak horsepower for acceleration.

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post #15 of 22 Old 04-20-2015, 03:47 PM
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drop front to 16 and go have fun. No reason not to do it. For more fun, dial into 15. Heck you can try 14 as some run on 1098 Duc streetfighter. I would think 15 will be perfect for your city riding. Put 16 for the slab

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post #16 of 22 Old 04-21-2015, 04:40 AM
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I use his Lordship's combo and it works well at Phillip Island, a track which rewards maintaining high momentum. Apart from two fairly tight turns, the Hornet can stay in the taller gears for longer with the 17/44.

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post #17 of 22 Old 04-21-2015, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zaq123 View Post
drop front to 16 and go have fun. No reason not to do it. For more fun, dial into 15. Heck you can try 14 as some run on 1098 Duc streetfighter. I would think 15 will be perfect for your city riding. Put 16 for the slab

The Ducati's come with a 15T as OEM fitment and they are still geared way tall so a 14T on them is merely one down in front.

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post #18 of 22 Old 04-21-2015, 12:31 PM
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I just got an "04 with 17/46 and an ERV2 520 chain.
Ratio is almost like stock.. seems good for me.. I wonder why the P.O. made the change if it is almost stock 2.69 v. 2.71. I have always ridden cruisers. Still have my '01 Valkyrie

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post #19 of 22 Old 04-21-2015, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LDH View Post
The Ducati's come with a 15T as OEM fitment and they are still geared way tall so a 14T on them is merely one down in front.
the reason I brought up 14-15 on Duc.... OP was wondering if there is any issues with 16 or smaller upfront. I'm guessing he is concerned due to some recent posts on here claiming that small diameter sprockets will destroy the chain (which I think are not substantiated).

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post #20 of 22 Old 04-21-2015, 12:55 PM
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A smaller sprocket will not "destroy" a chain, but the smaller diameter a sprocket is the more the chain has to bend at the joints so it is traveling further on a pivot point than it would on a larger diameter sprocket. That additional travel technically does accelerate wear to some degree. A physicist once told me that there is also more pressure on a smaller counter sprocket that is pulling on the chain and a sharper angle etc and he went on to draw me some graphs and numerical equations that went right over my head so that may very well also be the case for slightly accelerated wear from smaller countershaft sprockets.

With that being said the inverse of that is the larger on both ends 17/44 sprocket choice would decrease overall wear for the same amount of distance traveled.

Maybe someone like Tharalson will chime in he's smart enough to comment on such things.

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post #21 of 22 Old 04-21-2015, 02:37 PM
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I swapped to a +1 on the front sprocket and left the rear stock when I did the 520 set up. The dropped mass seems to have balanced out the additional tooth on the front sprocket.

I ran a +1 on the old 530 set up... I just twisted it harder if I felt it was not as peppy as it use to be.

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post #22 of 22 Old 04-21-2015, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LDH View Post
A smaller sprocket will not "destroy" a chain, but the smaller diameter a sprocket is the more the chain has to bend at the joints so it is traveling further on a pivot point than it would on a larger diameter sprocket. That additional travel technically does accelerate wear to some degree. A physicist once told me that there is also more pressure on a smaller counter sprocket that is pulling on the chain and a sharper angle etc and he went on to draw me some graphs and numerical equations that went right over my head so that may very well also be the case for slightly accelerated wear from smaller countershaft sprockets.

With that being said the inverse of that is the larger on both ends 17/44 sprocket choice would decrease overall wear for the same amount of distance traveled.

Maybe someone like Tharalson will chime in he's smart enough to comment on such things.
For any given rear ratio, the angle of wrap is a constant at both ends. (different values for each, but constants regardless of size of sprockets for any given ratio)
If you reduce the front tooth count OR increase the rear count, you lose some angle of wrap at the front and gain a bit at the back.
The opposite holds true.
The radius of engagement affects chain loads and stress.
The smaller the radius, the worse it is.
So wee small and big back = worst of everything.
Theoretical idea in terms of pure power transmission and least load per roller and pin, is two sprockets of same size that are infinite in diameter.
For equivalent ratio, larger front and rear = more engagement, larger radius, and less stress on chain and longer life.

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