Track bike - Front brakes - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 38 Old 06-27-2006, 09:12 AM Thread Starter
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Track bike - Front brakes

So I did my first track day last Thursday, had the bike back together late the night before which I don't like doing.

Anyway, noticed the front wheel doesn't spin as freely as it usually does after putting it back on. Take the calipers off and it will spin freely, put the calipers on and it won't spin as well. Still did my track day but came in on the first session 3 laps into to make sure the front brakes were working fine. They were working but I noticed they weren't as responsive as they usually are. Brake pads are fairly new, only put them on mid-season last year and did maybe 2-3 track days with them.

So last night, I decided to take the calipers completely off and have a closer look. What I did notice was that the pistons were very dirty so I'm in the process of taking the calipers apart and checking the seals and cleaning the pistons up. I ran out of time last night to finish the brakes plus I need brake fluid as well.

Could the dirty pistons have any affect on the front wheel not spinning as freely? What else would cause this?

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post #2 of 38 Old 06-27-2006, 09:49 AM
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A WARPED disc perhaps?????
Sorry, couldn't resist.

I think I may have a similar problem in that the free fork leg needs to be either pulled out or pushed in at the axle to center the respective disc better within the caliper. Maybe?

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post #3 of 38 Old 06-27-2006, 09:52 AM
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Did you put the spacers on the right sides? Is your tire/wheel on backwards?

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post #4 of 38 Old 06-27-2006, 09:59 AM
 
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what part of the piston is dirty?
if you have dirt in behind the dust seal, then yes it'll cause the piston to stick and not release fully.

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post #5 of 38 Old 06-27-2006, 12:50 PM
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If it is a sticking piston, take care of it ASAP! I had one of those nearly buck me off a bike once. Not fun.

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post #6 of 38 Old 06-27-2006, 01:27 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMulford
A WARPED disc perhaps?????
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Asshat........

Yes the wheel is on right (I'll double check the spacers just to make sure though) and it does spin without issues when the calipers are off so I'm thinking it's something to do with the calipers.

I haven't fully taken the calipers apart yet to see what the pistons look like. They are definitely caked in brake pad dust on the outside though where you can see the pistons when looking at inside of the calipers.

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post #7 of 38 Old 06-27-2006, 01:48 PM
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I'm sure you alreay know this... There is always a slight drag from the pads making contact with the disc.

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post #8 of 38 Old 06-27-2006, 03:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m51142
I'm sure you alreay know this... There is always a slight drag from the pads making contact with the disc.
I think you're just letting your brain out think yourself. Unless the rotors are warped a little brake dust is normal. When's the last time you changed the brake fluid?

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post #9 of 38 Old 06-27-2006, 04:25 PM
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Calipers off, pads out, hose it with brake clean, wipe with a rag, blast with compressed air, and here's where it gets tricky. Best done with the wheel, fender off, and the bike on a front and rear stand.

Pop the cap off the top of the front brake resi. Put one set of pads back in and use a box wrench to sub for the rotor. You can slip an elastic to hold it place for starters.

Use another box wrench (enclosed end) to push all the pistons in. Pump the front brake lever now and watch them come out. When they get a bit further than normal wipe with more brake clean and shoot with air. Then take a Q-tip and wipe some brake fluid around the piston as close to the seal as you can get. Knock the pistons back and pump out a few more times to work the fluid in and then wipe with clean/shoot with air. Pads back in, and tuck the wrench in to sub for the rotor and do the same for the other side.

Put the cap back on the resi, and put the bike back together. Of course if the fluid is black like vinegar instead of yellow like olive oil it may be time for a bleed, and if your seals are far gone it's time for a caliper rebuild.

The pads must skim the rotor, other wise the airspace would translate to mush when you pulled the lever. Some guys do get a bit nutty with shims, washers and facing the tabs to make the wheel spin like a bicycle wheel.

Oh yeah, your first question. The seals act like spings. The grab the piston and stretch then snap back in. They're not very strong so if there's a lot of dirt then they can't over come that. You can "pre-load" them by slipping a thin card between the pads and rotor, squeezing the lever, pulling the card and squeezing again. That'll have the spring with a bit of tension woun up from the get go.

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post #10 of 38 Old 06-28-2006, 06:37 AM
 
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Sporty,
Did you compare to your street bike?

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post #11 of 38 Old 06-28-2006, 06:54 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danke
Calipers off, pads out, hose it with brake clean, wipe with a rag, blast with compressed air, and here's where it gets tricky. Best done with the wheel, fender off, and the bike on a front and rear stand.

Pop the cap off the top of the front brake resi. Put one set of pads back in and use a box wrench to sub for the rotor. You can slip an elastic to hold it place for starters.

Use another box wrench (enclosed end) to push all the pistons in. Pump the front brake lever now and watch them come out. When they get a bit further than normal wipe with more brake clean and shoot with air. Then take a Q-tip and wipe some brake fluid around the piston as close to the seal as you can get. Knock the pistons back and pump out a few more times to work the fluid in and then wipe with clean/shoot with air. Pads back in, and tuck the wrench in to sub for the rotor and do the same for the other side.
Ok, so what time will you be over to do all of this??
Got good 'ol Canadian beer in the fridge right now all chilled and waiting!

The bike has about 18000 kilometer = 11184 miles on it, I picked the bike up when it had about 11000Kms on it and haven't switched out the brake fluid myself yet. I'm definitely switching it out now, kinda have no choice anyway! Plus since this is ONLY a track bike, I need to change it more often being that its ridden a lot harder.

I did compare it to the street bike and the street bike spins a lot better and I do know that there is slight drag on the front from brake pads.

And nothing is WARPED DAMMIT!

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post #12 of 38 Old 06-28-2006, 06:55 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyChick
Ok, so what time will you be over to do all of this??
Got good 'ol Canadian beer in the fridge right now all chilled and waiting!
I'm on my way...

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post #13 of 38 Old 06-28-2006, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyChick
Ok, so what time will you be over to do all of this??
Got good 'ol Canadian beer in the fridge right now all chilled and waiting!
Bit of a loaded question, some folks are still trying to get bubbles out of the lines at 4:00 AM and only suceed in breaking off one of the banjo's. Other folks can whip that off in an hour or so.

If you're already planning the bleed though then consider the caliper rebuild. If you get in when the pads are off and it seems OK then don't sweat it, but if it looks like a coal mine then it's time to bite the bullet.

Despite what some folks say, a mighty-vac makes a bleed way easier. Suck the contaminated fluid out of the resi, add fresh, and start bleeding. Go's faster and less chance of adding air that you'll have to get out.

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post #14 of 38 Old 06-28-2006, 08:09 PM
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check your brake lines,if they brake down a bit it can restrict the fluid flow causing sponginess when applying pressure, and not retracting fast enough when releasing.If the bike has been sitting for a while,without been touched,it's possible dryrot could have set in.let us know how you make out.

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post #15 of 38 Old 06-29-2006, 05:57 AM
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Have you checked to see if it is only a problem on one side by only having one caliper off at a time while spinning the wheel?

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post #16 of 38 Old 07-04-2006, 12:55 PM Thread Starter
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So I cleaned the calipers up, pistons and seals. Put the front brakes back together and bled the lines..............
OH MY FREAKIN' GAWD IT TOOK FOREVER!
And to top it off, I helped out on a couple of other bikes that needed front brakes done. My poor fragile hands have never pumped so many front brakes in probably an entire season (ok I may be exxagerating a tad). But the good news is, there is no more drag on the front tire when spinning it!

Btw, how much and where do you buy a damn mighty-vac?
I heard that steel-braided brake lines don't take near as long, I still have stock brake lines on the track bike.

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post #17 of 38 Old 07-04-2006, 12:59 PM
 
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The number one MOST overlooked / unknown fact about the front tire installation : you MUST settle it so there are no binding forces. The method of doing this depends on the bike, but it always involves having one portion loose and bouncing the HELL out of the front end. This allows the fork tubes to align comfortably and not contribute to any mis-alignment. You might have helped with your brake work, but making sure the front is on properly will help you a bunch next time.

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post #18 of 38 Old 07-04-2006, 03:49 PM
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heh. i've been riding 27 years. before this forum, i used to ride. when there's an issue, take it to a mechanic. resume riding. now i'm actually like, you know, "learning" stuff about mechanical issues. ... not that that means i'm gonna start doing "stuff." even tho even *chicks* can do "stuff." damn.

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post #19 of 38 Old 07-04-2006, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccs22
The number one MOST overlooked / unknown fact about the front tire installation : you MUST settle it so there are no binding forces. The method of doing this depends on the bike, but it always involves having one portion loose and bouncing the HELL out of the front end. This allows the fork tubes to align comfortably and not contribute to any mis-alignment. You might have helped with your brake work, but making sure the front is on properly will help you a bunch next time.
Good point... What this involves is the proper front wheel tightening procedure . The following procedure is for the 919, it is applicable to any bike except for the torque specs.


Install front wheel.

Tighten Axle bolt and torque to: 59 N-m (43 ft. lbs. or 6.0 kgf-m)
Tighten the right side axle pinch bolts and torque to: 22 N-m (16 ft. lbs. or 2.2 kgf-m)
Install both brake calipers, tighten both mounting bolts and torque to: 30 N-m (22 ft. lbs. or 3.1 kgf-m)

Now its time to seat the axle.
Place the front wheel back on the ground.
Grab a handful of front brake and pump the forks several times by pushing up and down on the handle bars.
Tighten the left side axle pinch bolts and torque to: 22 N-m (16 ft. lbs. or 2.2 kgf-m)

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post #20 of 38 Old 07-04-2006, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyChick
Btw, how much and where do you buy a damn mighty-vac?I heard that steel-braided brake lines don't take near as long, I still have stock brake lines on the track bike.
Mine came from Steen Hansens, if you hang out at a decent dealership they should have a catalog.

Braided can be worse as the narrower the line the more the little bubble stick, and you'll be starting dry.

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post #21 of 38 Old 07-05-2006, 08:30 AM
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If it's a track bike (didn't really read the whole thread), you'll want the braided lines and good pads. One of the cheaper mods that'll you'll notice right away and will be glad you did. Best bang for the bucks mod!

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post #22 of 38 Old 07-05-2006, 09:52 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys for the all the pointers!

This Saturday I have another track day so I wanted to make sure that the track bike was better ready for this track day rather then the last one I did. Did notice the front suspension on the track bike is whole lot better now that I have RaceTek springs installed. I also made sure that everything in the front was torqued right, bought a torque wrench on sale and I'm using it as much as I can!

I am looking into steel braided brake lines, already have the EBC brake pads on.

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post #23 of 38 Old 07-06-2006, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyChick
Thanks guys for the all the pointers!

This Saturday I have another track day so I wanted to make sure that the track bike was better ready for this track day rather then the last one I did. Did notice the front suspension on the track bike is whole lot better now that I have RaceTek springs installed. I also made sure that everything in the front was torqued right, bought a torque wrench on sale and I'm using it as much as I can!

I am looking into steel braided brake lines, already have the EBC brake pads on.
I would definately get the steel braided lines, I got the Kevlar lines with EBC pads on my bike - but would have preferred the steel lines. There is less flex on them, therefore a firmer or more positive bite. Also, I gotta tell ya, I am not too thrilled with the noise the darn EBC pads made.

Mike

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post #24 of 38 Old 07-06-2006, 10:08 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WIM-RC51
I got the Kevlar lines with EBC pads on my bike
ummm... you have a bike?

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post #25 of 38 Old 07-06-2006, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h_ryder
ummm... you have a bike?
Ouch! That hurt!

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post #26 of 38 Old 07-06-2006, 10:18 AM
 
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no malice intended...
...was just askin'.

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post #27 of 38 Old 07-06-2006, 10:28 AM
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Ummm... no. No bike yet

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post #28 of 38 Old 07-06-2006, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WIM-RC51
Ummm... no. No bike yet

Take two wheels off the golf cart and there ya go!




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post #29 of 38 Old 07-06-2006, 10:47 AM
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Ohh... wait till I get my next bike. I will make you ALL PAY!

Man... you guys are just as bad as my friends... WAIT! That means... OH NO! You are my friends !!!!!! DANG IT !!!

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post #30 of 38 Old 07-06-2006, 10:49 AM
 
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I'm telling...

WIM said the "F" word!!!!

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post #31 of 38 Old 07-06-2006, 11:52 AM Thread Starter
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I can think of a number of "F" words for you guys......

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post #32 of 38 Old 07-06-2006, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyChick
I can think of a number of "F" words for you guys......
Funny?
Friendly?
Fantastic?
Fast?

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post #33 of 38 Old 07-07-2006, 12:34 PM
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And now for something completely different.......


I just bought a set of EBC HH pads for the front of the RR, and I already have the Galfer braided lines. The braided lines are definately worth the money and effort. I will let you know how the EBC's perform. I am hearing mixed reviews, so this weekend at VIR should give me a good indication.

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post #34 of 38 Old 07-12-2006, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 600RidgeRunner
And now for something completely different.......


I just bought a set of EBC HH pads for the front of the RR, and I already have the Galfer braided lines. The braided lines are definately worth the money and effort. I will let you know how the EBC's perform. I am hearing mixed reviews, so this weekend at VIR should give me a good indication.
So...... ????

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post #35 of 38 Old 07-12-2006, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 600RidgeRunner
And now for something completely different.......

Riiight! Stop that! ...it's silly!

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post #36 of 38 Old 07-13-2006, 06:17 AM
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Ummmm......yeah!? I must be getting senile or something. I completely forgot about this thread.

Well, after removing my front wheel, it seems that the tech inspector was blowing smoke up my ass about replacing my brake pads. I still have the stockers on there, and they had at least 50% remaining. So, the EBC's are still in the package. Anyone need a set of EBC HH pads for an '03-'04 CBR600RR?

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post #37 of 38 Old 07-13-2006, 08:37 AM Thread Starter
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Just keep them, you'll need them eventually!

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post #38 of 38 Old 07-13-2006, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyChick
Just keep them, you'll need them eventually!

Actually, I disagree, I think he should trade them in for Gingokoloba

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