Bike dies mysteriously: - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 53 Old 04-27-2008, 08:55 AM Thread Starter
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Bike dies mysteriously:

Getting to be a problem here. Most typicaly, I run it up hard, bring her back down and a short time later, the bike flat out dies. I have my suspicions here, but need more info and input. See, after it croaks and were just rolling along going bwaaaa bwaaaa, I hit the kill switch then quickly turn it back to run and viola! we're off and running again. I've been getting this whistling shiit noise from under the tank recently to boot.

Now I know that in our fuel injection bikes, if the fuel pump stops, everything stops. No 44 psi, no go. This is exactly what seems to happen.....just bwaaaaaaaa. I do not have any good ideas here, but I am fully capable of generating some troubleshooting circuits that will let me know if some function is dropping out. Problem being, with intermittents, it is hard to pinpoint. I can build some electronic latches which when set can trigger an led to stay on if a fault occurs. Today I'm gonna look at the FI fault codes and see what's up.



This is where everyone else here comes in. Any suggestions? Any knowledge of specific related Kawi failures. I think some casino cash is available as an incentive.

的 said I never had much use for one.
Never said I didn't know how to use it."
Mathew Quigley
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post #2 of 53 Old 04-27-2008, 09:00 AM
 
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Good luck?

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post #3 of 53 Old 04-27-2008, 09:02 AM
 
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I know its dissimilar but I had a truck that kind of did the same thing , the fuel filter was the problem.

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post #4 of 53 Old 04-27-2008, 09:07 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks big guy. It's a start. You want some casino "Drunken Gambler Money" (DGM)?

的 said I never had much use for one.
Never said I didn't know how to use it."
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post #5 of 53 Old 04-27-2008, 09:22 AM
 
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Thanks big guy. It's a start. You want some casino "Drunken Gambler Money" (DGM)?
Nah I`m cool ,donate it to a charity. Maybe F.A.D.O.H.L.S (Fellow American Down On His Luck Society)

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post #6 of 53 Old 04-27-2008, 09:35 AM
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Ping 2ohno, he had a 10R for a short period.

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post #7 of 53 Old 04-27-2008, 09:51 AM
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Sounds like crap in your tank fouled up the FI jets. Flush out the whole path. Hopefully no custom monitoring circuits are required. Clean/replace your air filter.

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post #8 of 53 Old 04-27-2008, 09:56 AM
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Bigdaa, looks like you're on the right path. From what it sounds like, it's not any one or two injectors. FI mod or pump?
- Check faults for any FI issues.
- I'd throw in some FI cleaner for a tank or two.
- All else fails, buy a Honda?

It's better to have loved and lost than live with the psycho for life!
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post #9 of 53 Old 04-27-2008, 10:06 AM
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Being that you flip the kill switch & all is good.
I would open that up & look for loose connections & or a broken wire.
Corrosion from washing & then drooling over it...
Intermittent problems are usually electrical & near a location with the most vibration.

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post #10 of 53 Old 04-27-2008, 10:34 AM Thread Starter
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Well, the air filter is clean, can't be washing/corrosion cause I Ise Honda Spray exclusively, wouldn't be one or two injectors cause the girl goes completely off line.

A Honda motor would have blown up long ago the way I redline this monster........


Let's keep this stuff coming!

的 said I never had much use for one.
Never said I didn't know how to use it."
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post #11 of 53 Old 04-27-2008, 10:58 AM
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I cant help but wonder if the whistling and cutting out arent related, as in its not venting enough, causing it to starve for fuel. But I wouldnt think it would fire quite so readily by switching the kill on and off. That would seem more like an electrical prob. I would check the connections at the kill switch, Kickstand safety switch, ign switches first. Could even be a bad switch itself.

"He was a wise man who invented Beer"--Plato
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post #12 of 53 Old 04-27-2008, 11:50 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justintyme73 View Post
I cant help but wonder if the whistling and cutting out arent related, as in its not venting enough, causing it to starve for fuel. But I wouldnt think it would fire quite so readily by switching the kill on and off. That would seem more like an electrical prob. I would check the connections at the kill switch, Kickstand safety switch, ign switches first. Could even be a bad switch itself.
Exactly what I'm thinking. I know the whistling is not the cap because I opened the cap up when the bike was running at it still whistles. I wish I knew the inner workings of the fuel pump and if there is a telemetry line for fuel pressure that can be monitored.

的 said I never had much use for one.
Never said I didn't know how to use it."
Mathew Quigley
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post #13 of 53 Old 04-27-2008, 01:09 PM Thread Starter
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Wow....not a single fault code is being stored by the ECU. I don't think I'm doing anything wrong. Hmmmmmmmmmmm.


I gotta step back and think. If you smell smoke, don't call 911. It's just my head.

的 said I never had much use for one.
Never said I didn't know how to use it."
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post #14 of 53 Old 04-27-2008, 02:00 PM
 
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Fuel Pressure Regulator?.........I used these guys before.........

http://www.turbocity.com/default.php?cPath=64

(I'm broke again).............

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post #15 of 53 Old 04-27-2008, 05:47 PM Thread Starter
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Fuel Pressure Regulator?.........I used these guys before.........

http://www.turbocity.com/default.php?cPath=64

(I'm broke again).............
Sorry, no money for that one silver1.

的 said I never had much use for one.
Never said I didn't know how to use it."
Mathew Quigley
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post #16 of 53 Old 04-27-2008, 05:47 PM
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something similar happened to my car this last week. sudden change in temperature caused the fuel to evaporate in the tank causing some weird pressure that wouldn't let the fuel pump work.

any similar circumstances?

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post #17 of 53 Old 04-27-2008, 05:54 PM
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Does the fuel pump sound normal when you first turn on the bike?? maybe check the pump relay just for giggles nasty contacts and flipping the kill switch makes a good contact again for a minute or two??

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post #18 of 53 Old 04-27-2008, 06:07 PM Thread Starter
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Does the fuel pump sound normal when you first turn on the bike?? maybe check the pump relay just for giggles nasty contacts and flipping the kill switch makes a good contact again for a minute or two??

Interesting. It would be the cheaper part to start with. Now, when it dies, all cylinders die. No go at all. The pump sounds normal everytime the thing is turned on. It happens most often after a hard acceleration run. I ran it up to 140 on one of my favorite country two laners yesterday and it died soon after. Thing about yesterday, it died a number of times, more than ever before. It's got me stumped, but I'm gojng out and trying things to try to coax a failure. I wish I had the afternoon to spend with it, but I've been busy with work and the kids this weekend.

的 said I never had much use for one.
Never said I didn't know how to use it."
Mathew Quigley
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post #19 of 53 Old 04-27-2008, 06:34 PM
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Does it ever do it when your Not on the Gas Hard?

I had a CB1000C That had a pin hole in Vacum(I cant spell)valve for the fuel It would let gas thru the leak but never open the gas valve so when you got on the gas you ran out in the bowl.I know not possable on fuel Inj. but maybe a start?

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post #20 of 53 Old 04-27-2008, 06:51 PM Thread Starter
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Only does it after I crank it up hard.

的 said I never had much use for one.
Never said I didn't know how to use it."
Mathew Quigley
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post #21 of 53 Old 04-27-2008, 07:48 PM
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Sounds like a fuel problem to me, but I guess it could be something elect causing the fuel issue.

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post #22 of 53 Old 04-27-2008, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigdaa View Post
Only does it after I crank it up hard.
Did you check your fuel vent in the tank.Maybe it got pinched during the service.
It might be enough to vent, riding around normally, but not enough for full tilt riding.

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post #23 of 53 Old 04-28-2008, 04:51 AM
 
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Talking

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Sorry, no money for that one silver1.
was it a problem with the regulator?........

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post #24 of 53 Old 04-28-2008, 09:32 AM Thread Starter
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Here is a piece of info I neglected to table. Back when I just got the big girl, I anticipated the future arrival of an aftermarket exhaust so I installed a PCIII USB. Shortly after installing, I experienced a very similar if not identical failure mode. After honking it on, she died shortly thereafter. I pulled over and said WTF and tried to start her up. No go. I do not know of any particular sequence that lead up to being able to restart her, but she got going again in no time. As far as I can remember, that was it until recently.

PCIII acting like PC FECE???????? This may be my first step.


Now, I need the help of people who know. No guessing. I'll be running the bike w the Akro Ti but no PCIII. Any short term precautions as far as fuel mixture error?

的 said I never had much use for one.
Never said I didn't know how to use it."
Mathew Quigley
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post #25 of 53 Old 04-29-2008, 05:33 PM Thread Starter
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Well, I took the bike on another ride identical to the other day when it conked out like four times.....................NOTHING! Not a stumble. And I ran it up to redline again and again and nothing happened.
Today I ran it for 70 miles. No funkyness.

I got a feeling I'm going to just collect info, and hopefully whatever acting up will take a complete and irreversible sheatttttt.

的 said I never had much use for one.
Never said I didn't know how to use it."
Mathew Quigley
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post #26 of 53 Old 04-29-2008, 06:00 PM
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Clearly the gods have spoken and it's time to go bike shopping.

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post #27 of 53 Old 04-29-2008, 06:56 PM
 
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So, after all this mumbo jumbo... did you check the fuel filter or fuel pump yet?

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post #28 of 53 Old 04-29-2008, 08:07 PM Thread Starter
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Clearly the gods have spoken and it's time to go bike shopping.
Totally bogus. I'll own this bad-ass mama for double........TRIPLE the miles I got on her now.



Quote:
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So, after all this mumbo jumbo... did you check the fuel filter or fuel pump yet?

Fuel filter is not gonna kill all cyls at once and yes, the fuel pump is suspect of having an intermittent failure. Intermittents are the bitch of the troubleshooting world!

的 said I never had much use for one.
Never said I didn't know how to use it."
Mathew Quigley
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post #29 of 53 Old 04-30-2008, 09:35 AM
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Did it die after you took out the PC3?

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post #30 of 53 Old 04-30-2008, 12:22 PM Thread Starter
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Did it die after you took out the PC3?
It is such a pain in the ass to take it out, I'm not going to do it until after it dies again. I hope I can get her out again today. Beotch just runs so nasty awesome, like nothing wrong and then.......silence. I got the rear cowl off so I can view the PCIII lights after it acts up. May be a hint there. I don't know.

的 said I never had much use for one.
Never said I didn't know how to use it."
Mathew Quigley
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post #31 of 53 Old 04-30-2008, 09:19 PM
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I got you covered mang.

First, I have heard of ZX6/ZX10 tanks making whistling sounds from some of the racers and it wasn't a problem.

Second, I narrowed down the hiccup (thats right, from way up here). I would guess your problem can be as simple as a loose/bad ground wire to the PCIII. This is the best bet.

This is a long shot, but it happened to a friend:
If you are certain the PCIII it is grounded well, have a look at your wiring into the kickstand. I have heard of those wires getting loose and voila, your bike thinks the kick stand is down! I really don't think this is it though...

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post #32 of 53 Old 04-30-2008, 09:24 PM Thread Starter
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I got you covered mang.

First, I have heard of ZX6/ZX10 tanks making whistling sounds from some of the racers and it wasn't a problem.

Second, I narrowed down the hiccup (thats right, from way up here). I would guess your problem can be as simple as a loose/bad ground wire to the PCIII. This is the best bet.

If you are certain the PCIII it is grounded well, have a look at your wiring into the kickstand. I have heard of those wires getting loose and voila, your bike thinks the kick stand is down!
Nice to hear from you Ray. You know, while I was riding, I kicked my kickstand switch a bunch but couldn't make it crap out. I have not checked the ground lead yet, but I did yank the shiit out of the PC wiring harness and nothing happened. It's a real stumper.

的 said I never had much use for one.
Never said I didn't know how to use it."
Mathew Quigley
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post #33 of 53 Old 04-30-2008, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
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Nice to hear from you Ray. You know, while I was riding, I kicked my kickstand switch a bunch but couldn't make it crap out. I have not checked the ground lead yet, but I did yank the shiit out of the PC wiring harness and nothing happened. It's a real stumper.
Hehe, yeah I modified my post because the kick stand thing would cut in and out, not just die. It happens a lot when you pull the kick stands off on track bikes, and don't jump the wires very well.

Where is the PC grounded to? Battery?

Just up here waiting for the better weather to show up. Get any new firearms? I agreed to go with buddy to a some sort of carbine training class this weekend and Im already regretting it. I have to buy mag pouches, a sling, and knee pads! I guess we are doing some sort of tactical this or that. Oh well, maybe it will be fun to play ninja for the day.

Ride safe.

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post #34 of 53 Old 05-01-2008, 08:47 AM Thread Starter
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Hehe, yeah I modified my post because the kick stand thing would cut in and out, not just die. It happens a lot when you pull the kick stands off on track bikes, and don't jump the wires very well.

Where is the PC grounded to? Battery?

Just up here waiting for the better weather to show up. Get any new firearms? I agreed to go with buddy to a some sort of carbine training class this weekend and Im already regretting it. I have to buy mag pouches, a sling, and knee pads! I guess we are doing some sort of tactical this or that. Oh well, maybe it will be fun to play ninja for the day.

Ride safe.
Got a couple of 1911 wanna bees. lotsa fun. Even got matching left and right hand shoulder holsters so I could pack both not that I would ever do that.


So let me get this straight, you got some firearm course that's tactical and you are regretting it? Well.....that's weird!

Oh, BTW the ground is attached to the bat. I hope to give her another 70 mile ride today. U know, up to 140, shut her down and wait for the "Dead Zone"
(Christopher Walken. Great flick!)







Whoa, I just sneezed and blew snot all over the chair I was about to sit in. What's up with that? Old age maybe?

的 said I never had much use for one.
Never said I didn't know how to use it."
Mathew Quigley
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post #35 of 53 Old 05-02-2008, 09:50 AM
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Never saw the dead zone, but I like Walken.

About the class, I know it will be cool and I know I am going to learn a lot but I thought we were just going out to the woods to shoot. I guess I am going to learn to transition to the sidearm, failure drills with the carbine, move and shoot, etc etc.

People at work are already giving me **** about the "militia" training that I am going to do.

I did just watch Red Dawn again so...

WOLVERINES!!!


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post #36 of 53 Old 05-05-2008, 08:32 AM Thread Starter
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Well, I have taken her out on a handfull of runs and I get no ill response outside the whistling sound now and then. I even think some CHP in a white rig was looking for me after one of those runs, cause I got off at the frontage road that leads home and he came whizzing past still on the hiway doing about a buck.
Most puzzling to me it is.

的 said I never had much use for one.
Never said I didn't know how to use it."
Mathew Quigley
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post #37 of 53 Old 05-22-2008, 09:47 AM Thread Starter
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Another anomally:


Whistling is back almost daily. Fingers point mainly to the fuel pump, however:



In an effort to induce the stall I ran her up to a buck fortythree and low and behold out of the corner of my eye I see the shift light. Very strange as I was in 6th and had plenty of headroom. Just another little quirk to ponder here. I have a feeling some element will fail but it looks kinda like a wheel of fortune deal here. Oooooh! Get out the meter and oscilloscope. Daddy's comming to the test lab.

的 said I never had much use for one.
Never said I didn't know how to use it."
Mathew Quigley
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post #38 of 53 Old 05-22-2008, 09:57 AM
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Hey Dave - Wait a few years, if your hearing deteriorates like mine has those strange bike noises will be a thing of the past.

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post #39 of 53 Old 05-22-2008, 10:38 AM
 
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I just saw this - Didnt you just have a major service done ? Regarless - Id start by checking to make sure all the fuel tank vent hoses are free and unobstructed - I know ts acting like na electrical glitce, but, often time yo ucan crimp a vent hose while putting the tank back on , thus creating a fuel flow stopage due to vaccum. When yo ushut your bike down or it dies, it realeases the vaccum allowing fue lto flow and normal running - then it will stop again once the vaccum builds back up - could be hours, could be mminutes . The reason Im thinking this is the whistle- Bet you is you open the gas filler cap when its whistling, there will be a woosh and it will stop. Form some reason , jsut about all the ZX series will whistle slighty once the tank gets warm ( Im thinking it has somethin to do with the emission crap )- But, if it were my bike, Id check vent tubes and them do some more diggin in the electrical side -

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post #40 of 53 Old 05-23-2008, 08:37 AM Thread Starter
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2ohno, one step ahead of you. I took the spare key and opened the tank while the bike was running and whistling. The whistling continued with an open gas cap!!!!!!!(WTF??????)

的 said I never had much use for one.
Never said I didn't know how to use it."
Mathew Quigley
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