Wanted Dynojet ignition module 919 - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 25 Old 01-10-2012, 01:22 PM Thread Starter
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Wanted Dynojet ignition module 919

Dynojet ignition module for a 919 wanted, Just asking if any of you guys have one that you want to sell before i buy a new one?

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post #2 of 25 Old 01-10-2012, 01:42 PM
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Hell we're like the 2nd largest powercommander dealer in the world and I didn't even know they made an ignition module for the 919 LOL

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post #3 of 25 Old 01-10-2012, 01:43 PM
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Where in England are you located btw?

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post #4 of 25 Old 01-10-2012, 02:54 PM Thread Starter
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I think there are two members that have one fitted, Xrcajun and Bucky. Part number is 6-63 i believe. I guess you dont stock one then LDH? I live in lincolnshire near Cadwell park race track.

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post #5 of 25 Old 01-10-2012, 03:02 PM
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Nope... We have literally a thousand plus Powercommanders on the shelf and damn near at least one of every Ignition Module made, but not that one LOL Neither myself or my co-worker can ever recall even being asked for an ignition module for that bike and if I ordered one today it would probably arrive exactly one day after I leave the States for England

Cadwell is on my bucketlist and if all goes well I will be sending a bike across the pond in 2013 to keep at the house in England for just such occasions.

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post #6 of 25 Old 01-10-2012, 03:40 PM Thread Starter
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I enquired about an ignition module over here and dynojet uk said it would be about 3 weeks delivery, i'm not in a rush for it as i have my engine to rebuild once the new pistons arrive, hopefully this week! If i dont get any luck and have to order a new one i will see if you can do me a deal?
Cadwell park is a great track, most of the riders love it. Its one of the things that i have ticked off on my bucket list lol When you go just post a message up on the hornets nest and will will see if we can get a few guys to come over.
Heres a little clip for the guys who have not seen cadwell park before.
Cadwell Park Jump - YouTube

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post #7 of 25 Old 01-10-2012, 03:46 PM
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post #8 of 25 Old 01-10-2012, 04:03 PM Thread Starter
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Pm replied thanks.

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post #9 of 25 Old 01-10-2012, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodyeee View Post
Dynojet ignition module for a 919 wanted, Just asking if any of you guys have one that you want to sell before i buy a new one?
I was wondering how long you'd take to do it the right way !

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post #10 of 25 Old 01-10-2012, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodyeee View Post
Dynojet ignition module for a 919 wanted, Just asking if any of you guys have one that you want to sell before i buy a new one?
Another thought.
Have you considered "blueprinting" your ignition trigger so you know for sure exactly how many degrees of advance you for sure have before making adjustments with the Ignition Module?
I don't know how one would do it, but there must be a way.
The mechanics of locating TDC is an easy do, it's the measuring the actual lead that has me wondering.

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post #11 of 25 Old 01-10-2012, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LDH View Post
Nope... We have literally a thousand plus Powercommanders on the shelf and damn near at least one of every Ignition Module made, but not that one LOL Neither myself or my co-worker can ever recall even being asked for an ignition module for that bike and if I ordered one today it would probably arrive exactly one day after I leave the States for England

Cadwell is on my bucketlist and if all goes well I will be sending a bike across the pond in 2013 to keep at the house in England for just such occasions.
Have you got shipping estimates yet for the bike ?
Air ?
Self crated with gear stowed inside ?
If you have any numbers you can share at this stage, it would be appreciated.

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post #12 of 25 Old 01-10-2012, 06:04 PM
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About $2000 one way by air...

I've heard of some cheaper carriers that will ship via boat if you aren't in a huge hurry, but the ones I have looked into seem pretty shady thus far.

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post #13 of 25 Old 01-10-2012, 06:35 PM
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About $2000 one way by air...

I've heard of some cheaper carriers that will ship via boat if you aren't in a huge hurry, but the ones I have looked into seem pretty shady thus far.
I have a very good friend that imports wines and scotch into Canada and it all comes by sea from Italy and Scotland.
The trick is to find a good forwarder that arranges for good sea transit and takes care of the to and fro customs paperwork.
Give me few days and I'll get some info to you from him.

2 K each way by air is not that bad, I think a lower price can be found, but I doubt a huge savings is possible.
Freight rates can very also depending on whether dedicated air freighter is being used or passenger plane payload is being used.

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post #14 of 25 Old 01-11-2012, 01:22 AM Thread Starter
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I was wondering how long you'd take to do it the right way !
When i first started the turbo conversion i followed advice from a guy that runs, builds, tunes and sells turbo parts and bikes for a living so i thought i was getting good advice. The way i have it setup does work however i have learned since that how i have it now is a bit "oldskool" and can be tuned better.
If i had not been chasing the problems that i have had i would have probably developed the bike more and changed the ignition system last year.

When you say blueprinting the ignition do you actually mean setting it up and measuring with a strobe light while its running?

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post #15 of 25 Old 01-11-2012, 01:26 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
I have a very good friend that imports wines and scotch into Canada and it all comes by sea from Italy and Scotland.
The trick is to find a good forwarder that arranges for good sea transit and takes care of the to and fro customs paperwork.
Give me few days and I'll get some info to you from him.

2 K each way by air is not that bad, I think a lower price can be found, but I doubt a huge savings is possible.
Freight rates can very also depending on whether dedicated air freighter is being used or passenger plane payload is being used.
Nearest port to Cadwell park is Grimsby or Immingham docks
If you need any information just let me know.

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post #16 of 25 Old 01-11-2012, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodyeee View Post

When you say blueprinting the ignition do you actually mean setting it up and measuring with a strobe light while its running?
If one could do that and still have a degree wheel attached to the crank, great, but I don't see that as being practical.
I was wondering if some kind of electrical meter check could be done while turning the crank by hand with a degree wheel mounted and find out exactly when the trigger activates the ignition.
BUT maybe a strobe could still be used.
If an inductance triggered timing light was used, one could mount a degree wheel and manually turn over the engine and trigger a spark.
Sort of like the old buzz box trick during the points era. (I still have my buzz box for static timing setup, haven't used it in over 30 years. Lost art I suppose.)
I just looked at the manual, I think you could use the Ignition Pulse Generator voltage occurrence as the ignition timing indicator.
0.7 volts is the max output from the trigger, so one would need a properly scaled voltmeter.
The static timing is 8 degrees BTDC.
Boosted engines don't need static timing retard.
But they often need the full advance retarded by some degrees.

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post #17 of 25 Old 01-11-2012, 01:23 PM
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Back in the bad old days of point type kettering ignitions a static timing would be sufficient to develop an advance curve mainly because you have references to work from (points opening and TDC established), and with a centrifugal advancer that can be manually fixed in place you can get a pretty good idea of what's happening. As soon as inductive triggering (actually reluctive, but it's a small semantic point) came to the fore things got harder to deal with because there is no practical way to know when an ignition event occurs from static inspection. Add fuel injection engine management systems with multi dimension maps for ignition timing getting accurate results from static measurements becomes practically impossible.

There is a way to quite accurately determine when the ignition is firing at a given engine speed -- all you need is a multi channel oscilloscope tracking all the ECU timing and ignition pulses with an interface to a computer to make sense of it all, and a dyno to run the engine up to simulate real world use.

Add a turbo to the picture and the requirements get more complex in the form of four knock sensors to provide inputs necessary to know when detonation just begins to occur and automatically adjust timing to prevent engine destruction while trying to set it up. The factories do it this way, but in the case of hot rodding you get to incur all the expenses the factory avoided by not installing a turbo in the first place. Ideally the knock sensors should be left in place for an extra measure of engine management accuracy, but that requires a different ECU with the necessary inputs to handle it.

Let's be real here. If you want an occasional run up to the full boost region doing a "best guess" timing figure may be sufficient, but if you want a reliable engine that produces 60% more power that it did before and want to regularly use it in that region there is no substitute for getting it as close to optimum as possible. It may be expensive to do, but how much more expensive would it be to do multiple rebuilds while guessing at the settings and not really being sure of what's going on down there?

Unfortunately there is no real substitute to the right setup regardless of the expense involved ... except, of course, dialing the boost back to a more reasonable figure. Not gonna happen, is it?

Rob

If it has already been done, it is safe to assume it is possible to do it.
On the other hand, if it has not been done never assume it is impossible to do it.
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post #18 of 25 Old 01-11-2012, 01:55 PM
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Rob, in all your wisdom, I think I just read that post as "you can't have your cake and eat it, too"...

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post #19 of 25 Old 01-11-2012, 02:10 PM
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Rob, in all your wisdom, I think I just read that post as "you can't have your cake and eat it, too"...
yup, pretty much how i took it

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post #20 of 25 Old 01-11-2012, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robtharalson View Post
Back in the bad old days of point type kettering ignitions a static timing would be sufficient to develop an advance curve mainly because you have references to work from (points opening and TDC established), and with a centrifugal advancer that can be manually fixed in place you can get a pretty good idea of what's happening. As soon as inductive triggering (actually reluctive, but it's a small semantic point) came to the fore things got harder to deal with because there is no practical way to know when an ignition event occurs from static inspection. Add fuel injection engine management systems with multi dimension maps for ignition timing getting accurate results from static measurements becomes practically impossible.

There is a way to quite accurately determine when the ignition is firing at a given engine speed -- all you need is a multi channel oscilloscope tracking all the ECU timing and ignition pulses with an interface to a computer to make sense of it all, and a dyno to run the engine up to simulate real world use.

Add a turbo to the picture and the requirements get more complex in the form of four knock sensors to provide inputs necessary to know when detonation just begins to occur and automatically adjust timing to prevent engine destruction while trying to set it up. The factories do it this way, but in the case of hot rodding you get to incur all the expenses the factory avoided by not installing a turbo in the first place. Ideally the knock sensors should be left in place for an extra measure of engine management accuracy, but that requires a different ECU with the necessary inputs to handle it.

Let's be real here. If you want an occasional run up to the full boost region doing a "best guess" timing figure may be sufficient, but if you want a reliable engine that produces 60% more power that it did before and want to regularly use it in that region there is no substitute for getting it as close to optimum as possible. It may be expensive to do, but how much more expensive would it be to do multiple rebuilds while guessing at the settings and not really being sure of what's going on down there?

Unfortunately there is no real substitute to the right setup regardless of the expense involved ... except, of course, dialing the boost back to a more reasonable figure. Not gonna happen, is it?

Rob
Rob,

The scope sounds like a good means of mapping the advance curve as well as being able to figure out the total lead.
Then one can use the Ignition Module to knock off some of the total advance where they want to.
But, how does one figure out the relationship of all this to TDC ?
The bikes electronics won't do that, they'll be doing everything in terms of the ignition trigger, correct ?
And I doubt the cam pulse generator would be that helpful either, correct ?
(speaking of which, if one put on adjustable cam sprockets and started playing with intake closing, that would effect the timing of the cam pulse, correct? I wonder how critical that even is, with a few degrees that is. Comments/ )
I'm still thinking that somehow someway a static check is needed as a starting point OR somehow get a degree wheel on with the engine running.
Perhaps a special mounting arrangement could be cooked up using the timing access cover on the right.
Gosh I love these explorations !

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post #21 of 25 Old 01-11-2012, 05:11 PM
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post #22 of 25 Old 01-11-2012, 07:50 PM
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Funny how some of that actually made sence to me... not the theory of course, just some of the terms. Went together real well... I like it

Arte et Marte
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post #23 of 25 Old 01-11-2012, 11:01 PM
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I have 3 buzz boxes and use them every month.....

The turbo encapulator not to often~

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post #24 of 25 Old 01-12-2012, 05:54 AM Thread Starter
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What i do know is, in theory it all sounds fairly simple but in reality its why dynojet make the ignition control module. Its for those of us that cant quite work it out.............you buy it....it plugs in....... you take it to the dyno and you let the operator fiddly about with all that electrical trickery

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post #25 of 25 Old 02-15-2012, 01:14 AM Thread Starter
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I ended up buying a new Hub, and ignition module....Thanks LDH.
Got the items delivered at guess what time....9.19
Ive had to send away my pc3 back to Dynojet to update the firmware to run the Hub and Module as it wouldnt update with the programmer that we used

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