Yikes! Bike lurched forward in neutral! - Wrist Twisters
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 31 Old 08-23-2009, 09:23 AM Thread Starter
Optio
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 908
Rep Power: 0
 

Awards Showcase
Donation 
Total Awards: 1

Exclamation Yikes! Bike lurched forward in neutral!

I put on my new Yoshimura slip ons and noticed that the bike seems jumpy now. It's like how a lot of people complain about the throttle being very sensitive in 1st gear. Well, thats how it seems now, but even in 2nd and 3rd. I don't know if it just the increased volume of the new mufflers that make me perceive it that way, or maybe thats the way its supposed to feel after new slip ons??

I had my bike parked and a co-worker wanted to hear the new pipes, so I turned the bike on put it in neutral and when I went to rev it a little, the bike jumped forward, it pulled like it was going to take off. Scary as hell. Bike was not cold because I had just rode to work. Also, noticed when I had it on the center stand, right after installing pipes, when I revved it the back tired spun.

I don't even know if has anything to do with my new slip ons or not. Anyone know why it would do that? Clutch?

2526 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 31 Old 08-23-2009, 09:31 AM
Primus Pilus
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,400
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Donation 
Total Awards: 2

Sounds like clutch. you will notice some spin while on a stand but you should be able to stop it with your hand with almost no effort.

Ripper is offline  
post #3 of 31 Old 08-23-2009, 10:58 AM
I am BATMAN!!!
 
justintyme73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Ft. Collins CO
Posts: 4,660
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Outstanding Restoration Donation Donation 
Total Awards: 3

You may have added a couple HP with the slip-ons, thats maybe why the throttle seems more sensitive.

As for the lurching, you may need a clutch adjustment. However, How long has it been since you changed Oil? You'll get nicer clutch and transmission action with clean oil if its due to be changed. Was this yesterday, when it was so hot out?

"He was a wise man who invented Beer"--Plato
justintyme73 is offline  
 
post #4 of 31 Old 08-23-2009, 11:01 AM
Old, Bold rider
 
robtharalson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Aurora, Colorado
Posts: 2,434
Rep Power: 1
 
Garage

Awards Showcase
Donation Veteran Community Leadership 
Total Awards: 3

The exhaust has nothing to do with it.

The transmission, however, does.

If the rear wheel is turning faster than a slow crawl while th engine is running in neutral, particularly if it's already up to operating temperature, and can't be stopped by hand, this indicates one of the gears that is free to to rotate on it's shaft may be starting to bind in some way, and somehow it's firm enough to transmit power sufficiently to drive the bike forward.

Have the engine cases ever been opened up? Particularly if there has been trans work, it sounds like one of the gear bushings may have been installed with the oil holes not registered to the feeds on the shafts, starving the plain bearing and galling / seizing on the shaft. I have also seen this happen with pressure lubricated transmissions (which the 919 has) from coasting down a long mountain road with the engine off. Pressure lubricated plain bearings spinning rapidly minus oil pressure = seized bearing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justintyme73 View Post
How long has it been since you changed Oil? You'll get nicer clutch and transmission action with clean oil if its due to be changed. Was this yesterday, when it was so hot out?
+1
Change the oil and run a strong magnet through it. If it has a few minor metal flakes in it you're fine, but if it's hairy something is grinding itself to uselessness, and must be addressed.

Diagnosis:
Support the bike with the rear wheel off the ground. Spin the rear wheel in the normal direction while feeling for drag. If there is a trans problem the lower run of the chain will get tight and stay that way as long as it's turning.

I sincerely hope it's something else, anything else, especially if that something else doesn't require a bottom end teardown. My extensive experience with transmissions tells me this is a possibility.

Good luck.

Rob

If it has already been done, it is safe to assume it is possible to do it.
On the other hand, if it has not been done never assume it is impossible to do it.
------- Rob --------
robtharalson is offline  
post #5 of 31 Old 08-23-2009, 11:15 AM
I am BATMAN!!!
 
justintyme73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Ft. Collins CO
Posts: 4,660
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Outstanding Restoration Donation Donation 
Total Awards: 3

Rob,
I'm pretty sure her bike has never been torn down since it left the factory.

"He was a wise man who invented Beer"--Plato
justintyme73 is offline  
post #6 of 31 Old 08-23-2009, 11:40 AM
orange
 
sbeau1960's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 9,193
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Donation Community Service 
Total Awards: 6

Curious to see how this unfolds, hopefully a fresh oil change will take care of the problem.

sbeau1960 is offline  
post #7 of 31 Old 08-23-2009, 12:05 PM Thread Starter
Optio
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 908
Rep Power: 0
 

Awards Showcase
Donation 
Total Awards: 1

I changed my oil about 1500 miles ago. Is that too long?
I bought the bike brand new with only .4 of a mile on it and I've never opened up anything on the engine.
I put it up on the stand and when revving the wheel spins a little but can be stopped with the hand easily without any force.
This was yesterday but it was early in the morning before it go too hot.

My clutch is adjusted to engage closer to the grip because my hands are on the smaller size, so maybe I need to let it out a little bit. Isn't there supposed to be some slack on the cable? There is no free play on the lever.

2526 is offline  
post #8 of 31 Old 08-23-2009, 12:16 PM
orange
 
sbeau1960's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 9,193
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Donation Community Service 
Total Awards: 6

You shouldn't need an oil change yet but if you're not running full synthetic you might give it a try. Expensive, but I could tell a difference in the way my transmission shifted more smoothly.

There should be a tiny bit of freeplay in your clutch lever, that's why everyone complains about their lever vibrating in neutral. You may not be getting full clutch disengagement if it's adjusted too tight and your lever doesn't have much travel, will also cause it wear out more quickly. Doesn't explain your problem in neutral though unfortunately.

sbeau1960 is offline  
post #9 of 31 Old 08-23-2009, 12:48 PM
Chuck Norris has lost in battle with this Member
 
Pacojerte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: ft lauderdale fl
Posts: 12,874
Blog Entries: 1
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Donation Donation 
Total Awards: 2

my 919 did the same thing... when you rev'd it up the bike kinda sorta "moved" forward enough to scare you into thinking it was gonna fall off the kickstand...

i am willing to bet if everyone with a 919 went outside and rev'd the bike in neutral theirs would do the same thing...

i also kept my clutch adjusted closer to the grip... maybe put a hair more play in it...

when i went to syn oil it was not nearly as noticable... i honestly don't think there is anything to worry about...

i beat the snot out of mine for 9500 miles and the clutch still was as slip free as the day i bought it...

everyone go try and rev your bikes to ~6-7k while in neutral and i bet it will act like its gonna jump off the kickstand...`



Pacojerte is offline  
post #10 of 31 Old 08-23-2009, 02:08 PM Thread Starter
Optio
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 908
Rep Power: 0
 

Awards Showcase
Donation 
Total Awards: 1

Thanks for all the help guys! I will definitely change the oil and check for shavings as soon as I run and get a filter to see if the helps. I have regular dinosaur oil in it now so maybe changing to synthetic will help. The wheel spun fine without any drag that I could notice nor did the chain tighten up along the bottom.

Now that I think about it, it was right about 7k. I hope its more or less normal for the 919. But still, it sure scared the heck out of me and my co-worker because his bike was in front of mine.

2526 is offline  
post #11 of 31 Old 08-23-2009, 02:56 PM
Attitude is Everything
 
919Chef's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Maryland
Posts: 115
Rep Power: 1
 
Slight side question...

How long do you go between oil changes? I thought the service schedule recommends every 600 miles? Seems pretty often but what do I know.

Do or Do Not... There is No Try.

2007 919...Delkevic Stubbies, Carbonfiber Hondaline Wind Screen, Integrated Blinker Mirrors, Brake Light Modulator, Headlight Modulator(soon)
919Chef is offline  
post #12 of 31 Old 08-23-2009, 03:46 PM
Tirone Choolaces
 
marylandmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 11,177
Rep Power: 1
 
Garage

Awards Showcase
Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Donation Donation 
Total Awards: 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by 919Chef View Post
Slight side question...

How long do you go between oil changes? I thought the service schedule recommends every 600 miles? Seems pretty often but what do I know.
600 miles is only the first oil change...after that the manual says 8K...I change mine every 2-3K.

marylandmike is offline  
post #13 of 31 Old 08-23-2009, 04:34 PM
Attitude is Everything
 
919Chef's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Maryland
Posts: 115
Rep Power: 1
 
Thanks.. Ithought that was a bit much

Do or Do Not... There is No Try.

2007 919...Delkevic Stubbies, Carbonfiber Hondaline Wind Screen, Integrated Blinker Mirrors, Brake Light Modulator, Headlight Modulator(soon)
919Chef is offline  
post #14 of 31 Old 08-27-2009, 12:40 PM
Guzzi Man
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Towson,MD 21204
Posts: 177
Rep Power: 1
 
You need free play - see your owners manual - about 3/8" or 10mm at the ball end of the lever!

mikestib1 is offline  
post #15 of 31 Old 08-28-2009, 03:04 AM
Chuck Norris has lost in battle with this Member
 
Pacojerte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: ft lauderdale fl
Posts: 12,874
Blog Entries: 1
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Donation Donation 
Total Awards: 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikestib1 View Post
You need free play - see your owners manual - about 3/8" or 10mm at the ball end of the lever!
She can't have that much. She has little bitty hands



Pacojerte is offline  
post #16 of 31 Old 08-28-2009, 08:15 AM
The "Eagle" Has Landed
 
Aquila-RC51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Bootiful Bay Area
Posts: 7,093
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Donation Donation Wrist Twisters Event Attendance 
Total Awards: 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by barton664 View Post
She can't have that much. She has little bitty hands
Barton is right, he has the same size hands!

Aquila-RC51 is offline  
post #17 of 31 Old 08-28-2009, 08:55 AM
Chuck Norris has lost in battle with this Member
 
Pacojerte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: ft lauderdale fl
Posts: 12,874
Blog Entries: 1
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Donation Donation 
Total Awards: 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila-RC51 View Post
Barton is right, he has the same size hands!
i have big hands... long fingers.... size 13 ring.... covered with scars and teeth marks...



Pacojerte is offline  
post #18 of 31 Old 08-28-2009, 02:10 PM
Vehicle Abuse Specialist
 
WheelieTime's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Fogelsville
Posts: 618
Blog Entries: 4
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by barton664 View Post
i have big hands... long fingers.... size 13 ring.... covered with scars and teeth marks...

Thats one hell of a pickup line

WheelieTime is offline  
post #19 of 31 Old 08-28-2009, 03:01 PM
Chuck Norris has lost in battle with this Member
 
Pacojerte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: ft lauderdale fl
Posts: 12,874
Blog Entries: 1
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Donation Donation 
Total Awards: 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by WheelieTime View Post
Thats one hell of a pickup line
turned you on did i?????



Pacojerte is offline  
post #20 of 31 Old 08-28-2009, 10:38 PM
Go'n So slow I'm stopped
 
xrmikey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,909
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Donation Donation Donation Donation 
Total Awards: 6

If anybody thinks this issue has anything to do with clutch lever free play, smack yourselves in the head!
When the bike is in neutral, the clutch is fully engaged.
Less free play would make it less likely to lunge in gear. More likely to cause premature clutch wear due to slippage.

More lever free play will make the clutch bite sooner due to lack of disengagement Vs. lever travel. Once again, only in gear.

In neutral. It's irrelevant.

See robs post.

If there is no gear or bearing issues, I think its just a little viscus oil force combined with motor torque to make the bike move a little, along with a combined set of circumstances.

xrmikey is offline  
post #21 of 31 Old 08-29-2009, 10:05 AM
When in doubt.....GAS IT!
 
hasbeenracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SO.CAL
Posts: 2,528
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Donation 
Total Awards: 1

The rear wheel spinning is a "cold oil at start-up issue" (like mikey said - more viscus) and nothing more. I'm willing to bet that once up to temp the rear wheel doesn't spin while on the centerstand. It's more pronounced in cooler climates and less so in hotter climates. Completely normal.

Professional
hasbeenracer is offline  
post #22 of 31 Old 08-29-2009, 10:30 AM
Legalize it please?
 
BigMike919's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Up State
Posts: 1,176
Rep Power: 1
 
Anyone know if she found a problem? Or fixed it?

2007 CB900f- sold
2009 K1300s- rockin out
BigMike919 is offline  
post #23 of 31 Old 08-29-2009, 12:40 PM
Chuck Norris has lost in battle with this Member
 
Pacojerte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: ft lauderdale fl
Posts: 12,874
Blog Entries: 1
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Donation Donation 
Total Awards: 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMike919 View Post
Anyone know if she found a problem? Or fixed it?
i think she took my advice....



Pacojerte is offline  
post #24 of 31 Old 08-29-2009, 07:53 PM Thread Starter
Optio
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 908
Rep Power: 0
 

Awards Showcase
Donation 
Total Awards: 1

I checked what Rob said and didn't seem to find any problems. I guess the bike could of cooled off a bit. I rode to work (only 3 miles) parked it for about 10 minutes thats when I started it up, so hopefully it was due to the cool oil/wheel grab. It just scared the heck out of me, never experienced that before so I worried all day about it. I don't want to try it again, so I just hope it was all circumstantial.

2526 is offline  
post #25 of 31 Old 08-29-2009, 10:46 PM
Old, Bold rider
 
robtharalson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Aurora, Colorado
Posts: 2,434
Rep Power: 1
 
Garage

Awards Showcase
Donation Veteran Community Leadership 
Total Awards: 3

There's one cause everyone seems to have missed ... at 7000 rpm the 919 wants to be moving along at a good clip, not sitting in a parking lot just making noise. It is, after all, not a Harley. Watch it girl!

Rob

If it has already been done, it is safe to assume it is possible to do it.
On the other hand, if it has not been done never assume it is impossible to do it.
------- Rob --------
robtharalson is offline  
post #26 of 31 Old 08-30-2009, 05:10 AM
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 193
Rep Power: 0
 
Viscosity

I started my Hornet 900 today on the rear stand. And noticed the rear wheel slowly turning. I could easily stop it with one finger.
I noticed that the rpm was about 1500.
Then I got to thinking. Cold start + 10W40 + rotating parts running in an oil bath = output shaft turns over.

Pist-N-Broke is offline  
post #27 of 31 Old 09-02-2009, 06:24 AM
When in doubt.....GAS IT!
 
hasbeenracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SO.CAL
Posts: 2,528
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Donation 
Total Awards: 1

I just started mine to double check my theory (post #21) and it indeed just barely spins and stopped in about 1.5 minutes. Ambient temp this morning is 82 degrees at 6:15 am here in my neck of SO CAL. I know that in the winter the rear wheel spins faster and longer (colder oil). It's so normal, I really don' even pay attention to it any more.

I think Rob might be on to something as well with his above post though.

Professional
hasbeenracer is offline  
post #28 of 31 Old 09-02-2009, 08:44 AM Thread Starter
Optio
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 908
Rep Power: 0
 

Awards Showcase
Donation 
Total Awards: 1

LOL
Good advice!

Quote:
Originally Posted by robtharalson View Post
There's one cause everyone seems to have missed ... at 7000 rpm the 919 wants to be moving along at a good clip, not sitting in a parking lot just making noise. It is, after all, not a Harley. Watch it girl!

Rob

2526 is offline  
post #29 of 31 Old 09-02-2009, 04:33 PM
Legalize it please?
 
BigMike919's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Up State
Posts: 1,176
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by robtharalson View Post
There's one cause everyone seems to have missed ... at 7000 rpm the 919 wants to be moving along at a good clip, not sitting in a parking lot just making noise. It is, after all, not a Harley. Watch it girl!

Rob
Dear lord don't try it with a HD either! I don't think any HD can rev to 7,000 rpm!

2007 CB900f- sold
2009 K1300s- rockin out
BigMike919 is offline  
post #30 of 31 Old 09-02-2009, 05:30 PM
I am BATMAN!!!
 
justintyme73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Ft. Collins CO
Posts: 4,660
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Outstanding Restoration Donation Donation 
Total Awards: 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMike919 View Post
Dear lord don't try it with a HD either! I don't think any HD can rev to 7,000 rpm!
Wrong!!! V-Rod Does!

Ka-Ching, pay the man!

"He was a wise man who invented Beer"--Plato
justintyme73 is offline  
post #31 of 31 Old 09-02-2009, 05:32 PM
Chuck Norris has lost in battle with this Member
 
Pacojerte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: ft lauderdale fl
Posts: 12,874
Blog Entries: 1
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Donation Donation 
Total Awards: 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMike919 View Post
Dear lord don't try it with a HD either! I don't think any HD can rev to 7,000 rpm! without falling apart....
i fixed that for ya....



Pacojerte is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wrist Twisters forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome