yet another chain adjustment question - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 38 Old 02-15-2012, 11:17 AM Thread Starter
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yet another chain adjustment question

My chain and sprockets both look to be in fair shape, I feel like there should be more room to adjust my slack out and tighten up the chain (since the line on the indicator is right on the end of the green spot) but the adjustor screws won't move any farther.

Shouldn't they be able to adjust the axle all the way out to the end of the indicator line? It was this way on my 599, my chain was adjusted to where the line was outside of the green.

I thought I'd read somewhere on here that the stock 919 chain was thought by some to be a few links too long, is that what is causing this?

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post #2 of 38 Old 02-15-2012, 01:04 PM
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Most likely your chain is at the end of it's life and is stretching. It will get worse near the end of it's life, it will seem like you are always needing to adjust it further, until you have no more adjustment room left.


Time for new chain/sprockets. You might get away with taking two links out and moving the tire forward again, but this is a TEMPORARY solution. Again, your chain needs REPLACED.

And yes, it is wise to replace the sprockets at the same time.

Take some pics so we can get a looksie...

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post #3 of 38 Old 02-15-2012, 02:47 PM
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112 links?

I too am at the end of my adjustment at only 8500 miles. I was looking at The Honda 919 / Hornet CB900F Website and there was info that the chain was too long for the 16/43 sprocket set up and that Honda dealerships were removing two links, "under warranty" Also stated that with a 114 link chain, the ideal sprocket set up was 17/44 that seems to be the popular setup. Now I have never seen that statement ANYWHERE else. Just info on a non Honda website, not sure if it's true or not.

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post #4 of 38 Old 02-15-2012, 03:04 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBB2 View Post
I too am at the end of my adjustment at only 8500 miles. I was looking at The Honda 919 / Hornet CB900F Website and there was info that the chain was too long for the 16/43 sprocket set up and that Honda dealerships were removing two links, "under warranty" Also stated that with a 114 link chain, the ideal sprocket set up was 17/44 that seems to be the popular setup. Now I have never seen that statement ANYWHERE else. Just info on a non Honda website, not sure if it's true or not.
Thanks, and yeah I can see now mine must be the 114 link because the chain should be able to be tightened up some more. My chain and sprockets def. aren't in great shape but I should be able to get a couple more thousand out of them if I could only tighten the chain.

My buddy has a chain breaker and I was debating on whether or not to just remove two links and put a new master link in. I'll probably just go ahead and buy a new set though. I did find a thread on here where some people had issues fitting a 112 link chain

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post #5 of 38 Old 02-15-2012, 03:16 PM
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114 links

Not sure I'd attempt a 112 link chain either. The Honda service manual calls for a 530/114 link chain. I will stick with a 114 link chain, but I'm going to go with a 17/44 sprocket set up.

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post #6 of 38 Old 02-15-2012, 03:48 PM
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post #7 of 38 Old 02-15-2012, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBB2 View Post
I too am at the end of my adjustment at only 8500 miles. I was looking at The Honda 919 / Hornet CB900F Website and there was info that the chain was too long for the 16/43 sprocket set up and that Honda dealerships were removing two links, "under warranty" Also stated that with a 114 link chain, the ideal sprocket set up was 17/44 that seems to be the popular setup. Now I have never seen that statement ANYWHERE else. Just info on a non Honda website, not sure if it's true or not.
8500 miles wow...are you running your chain to tight....have 20.000 on mine and seems to have plenty of life left....i keep mine on the loose side of the adjustment and use the whole rpm range

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post #8 of 38 Old 02-15-2012, 04:10 PM
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On my stock sprocket/chain setup (114 links) and got 22K out of my stock chain and sprockets with periodic clean and lube every 500 miles or so. I replaced it when the adjuster hit the red zone.

One my second chain/ sprockets (also 114 links and 16/43) I have 22K on it now and still in the middle of the green zone, rear sprocket looks good, but front sprocket is showing some wear. I have used an chain oiler on this chain.

I have ordered a replacement for when I hit the red zone, but am gonna try the 17/44 setup this time.

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post #9 of 38 Old 02-15-2012, 05:19 PM
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Nope

Quote:
Originally Posted by secondchance View Post
8500 miles wow...are you running your chain to tight....have 20.000 on mine and seems to have plenty of life left....i keep mine on the loose side of the adjustment and use the whole rpm range
I bought my 919 used with around 7400 miles on the clock. Even though the bike was in excellent shape when I bought it, not sure if there was proper chain maintenance. Chain maintenance and cable maintenance would be the only two items, to me, that would have any concerns of premature failure. I'm a mechanic and I have the service manual so I'm pretty sure I'm not running it too tight. It is at the very end of the green zone for adjustment. I'll replace the chain and sprockets and know for sure how they are maintained.

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post #10 of 38 Old 02-18-2012, 10:47 AM Thread Starter
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Gave the chain a thorough Kerosene bath today, and was able to eek out a tiny bit more tension, but now the adjustors are definitely maxed out. The chain is now properly tightened and is pretty quiet again.

I still don't understand why the adjustor screws wont back all the way out, I thought they were just screws that set up against the back of the swingarm, and you should be able to back them all the way out if you wanted.

My sprockets seems to be in pretty damn good shape from pictures I've seen on here when people decide to go with new sets. I'm pretty sure I can get a few more thousand miles out of the set before I have to spring for a new one. I'm almost at 15k miles now on the stock setup.

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post #11 of 38 Old 02-18-2012, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBeeDeeGee
Gave the chain a thorough Kerosene bath today, and was able to eek out a tiny bit more tension, but now the adjustors are definitely maxed out. The chain is now properly tightened and is pretty quiet again.

I still don't understand why the adjustor screws wont back all the way out, I thought they were just screws that set up against the back of the swingarm, and you should be able to back them all the way out if you wanted.

My sprockets seems to be in pretty damn good shape from pictures I've seen on here when people decide to go with new sets. I'm pretty sure I can get a few more thousand miles out of the set before I have to spring for a new one. I'm almost at 15k miles now on the stock setup.
Um, you are loosening the axle nut while doing this correct?

Those adjustment screws won't budge if the axle isn't free. But once the axle is loose, and if there is room on the chain, those adjusters will come all the way out.

use the axle for major slack adjustment. The smaller screws are only to 'set' or 'fine tune' your axle adjustment.
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post #12 of 38 Old 02-18-2012, 03:28 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Um, you are loosening the axle nut while doing this correct?

Those adjustment screws won't budge if the axle isn't free. But once the axle is loose, and if there is room on the chain, those adjusters will come all the way out.

use the axle for major slack adjustment. The smaller screws are only to 'set' or 'fine tune' your axle adjustment.
Yeah I do have the axle loose, but the adjustor screws are very hard to turn. I was able to get a little out of them today but I was scared to turn any harder and round them off.

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post #13 of 38 Old 02-18-2012, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g00gl3it View Post
Um, you are loosening the axle nut while doing this correct?

Those adjustment screws won't budge if the axle isn't free
. But once the axle is loose, and if there is room on the chain, those adjusters will come all the way out.

use the axle for major slack adjustment. The smaller screws are only to 'set' or 'fine tune' your axle adjustment.
Yes, I believe that may be whats happening to him as I have done this myself. But if the adjusters are maxed out completely the adjusters will not come out with the axle running through the adjusters.

Note: I personally would not recommend taking adjusters off

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post #14 of 38 Old 02-18-2012, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBeeDeeGee View Post
Yeah I do have the axle loose, but the adjustor screws are very hard to turn. I was able to get a little out of them today but I was scared to turn any harder and round them off.
It's still not clear how you are doing this. I loosen the axle bolt and adjusters. Slide the wheel back until I'm within 90% of my slack goal. Slightly tighten the axle bolt so that it's snug, then use the adjustment screws to align the wheel and chain. At this point, if they are hard to turn IN (pulling the wheel backward) then the axle nut is too tight, those screws should still move the tire freely, but you're only using them for fine right/left adjustment, not to move the tire forward or back, loosening the axle is for that. Use the screws to make fine adjustments, then proceed to tighten the axle, while trying to make sure it doesn't fudge out of place.

Often, I take the adjusters and brackets all the way off when removing the rear wheel. I've taken the adjusters and adjuster sliders all the way off before (got them powdercoated). No issue if they come off, they should be easy to turn right up until you snug them when the axle is set right where you want it.

Hope that makes sense.

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post #15 of 38 Old 02-18-2012, 08:04 PM Thread Starter
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The axle is loose, and I try to loosen the adjusters and pull the tire back, but they just don't want to back out. I can push the tire forward no problem, and the adjusters will go forward no problem, they just won't back out any farther.


Maybe I'll make a little vid tomorrow showing exactly what's going on

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post #16 of 38 Old 02-19-2012, 08:42 AM
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there seems to be a manufacturing variance from Honda on the swing arm. there's those that had trouble with the 112 link chain and those(like you i believe) that the 114 becomes too long very early in life.
i happen to have a swingarm where i can swap a 16/44 to 17/44 anytime i choose(i do often).
since all the links stretch at (aprox.)the same amount,i would cut 2 links out and run the chain to the end of it's life span.
then change it and both sprockets.
btw when i changed my chain/sprockets i put the 17/44 on put everything as far forward as it would go then cut the chain.
i could have gotten an odd number of links this way(if it would work).so i can't tell you how many links are there.(i don't care either).

so just cut it,run it, then replace with a very good set

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post #17 of 38 Old 02-19-2012, 08:51 AM
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If I may suggest a D.I.D. ERV Gold replacement chain. As for sprockets, I chose the OEM for my ZX10R as they are as tough as they come. The ERV I have with 25,000 miles on it looks as sweet as the day I installed it after my OEM setup was changed at 23,000 miles.
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post #18 of 38 Old 02-19-2012, 10:55 AM
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post #19 of 38 Old 02-19-2012, 11:46 AM
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Are you turning the adjusters clockwise to tighten the chain?

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post #20 of 38 Old 02-19-2012, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marylandmike View Post
Are you turning the adjusters clockwise to tighten the chain?
and are you sure you are running proper slack? If you're running your chain too tight, it will stretch for sure.

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post #21 of 38 Old 02-19-2012, 01:59 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah I'm sure I'm turning them the right way, the screws are just way to hard to turn. I never had this problem before when I made adjustments.

I have been running the chain on the loose side for sure, right now I have about 1.5 inches of slack.

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post #22 of 38 Old 02-19-2012, 02:27 PM
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We might need pics of what your adjusters look like, check out the pick below - How much room do you have on those adjusters? Are they pushed all the way forward and touching the swingarm? In your case they are probably all the way back, since the axle should be near the end of the swingarm.

Somebody help me, as I'm not at home, but turning CLOCKWISE moves those adjuster in, thereby giving more slack to the chain. Turning them COUNTER clockwise (as if you're taking them out) pulls back on that adjuster, thereby pulling the axle/tire back and taking slack out of the chain.
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post #23 of 38 Old 02-19-2012, 02:36 PM Thread Starter
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i'll take a pic tonight. Am I wrong in thinking that you should be able to take them all the way out if you wanted? I mean in theory you should be able to slide the axle back to the end of the swing arm right?

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post #24 of 38 Old 02-19-2012, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBeeDeeGee View Post
i'll take a pic tonight. Am I wrong in thinking that you should be able to take them all the way out if you wanted? I mean in theory you should be able to slide the axle back to the end of the swing arm right?
Yes, it should, IF you have the slack. Loosen axle bolt, loosen adjusters (turn them IN, or Clockwise, to give slack).

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post #25 of 38 Old 02-22-2012, 04:17 PM Thread Starter
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Well I've come to the conclusion that the adjusters are seized some how. The axle nut was way loose, and I can't get the tire to move forward or backwards and the adjuster bolts still won't budge, and I've mangled them kinda bad so now I'm in the market to purchase a replacement if any of you guys have some extra parts lying around.

At least this happened with almost proper slack in the chain ( a little on the loose side) and the tire appears to be aligned using a caliper on the adjuster to swingarm

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post #26 of 38 Old 02-22-2012, 04:19 PM
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That sucks. Take the bolt out to home depot and match it (find a matching nut to get the thread right) or Ace hardware too.

These aren't head bolts and don't require a lot of torque.

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post #27 of 38 Old 02-22-2012, 04:26 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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That sucks. Take the bolt out to home depot and match it (find a matching nut to get the thread right) or Ace hardware too.

These aren't head bolts and don't require a lot of torque.
So it's not a special bolt or anything?

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post #28 of 38 Old 02-22-2012, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBeeDeeGee View Post
So it's not a special bolt or anything?
No, not anything special, you can replace the bolts with what you can find locally. I'd look for a stainless replacement myself.

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post #29 of 38 Old 02-22-2012, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
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So it's not a special bolt or anything?
nope. just match the grade of thread, bolt size, and what not. you could go bigger bolt head if you wanted to.

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post #30 of 38 Old 02-22-2012, 04:31 PM Thread Starter
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On a side note, anyone have experience with these stands Motorcycle Swingarm Stands

you can get a swing arm stand for 49.99. The way i lift my bike now I can't remove the axle bolt. ( Push it over on the kick stand and slide a jack stand under the centerstand mount on the right side) so I need to purchase at least a rear stand.

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post #31 of 38 Old 02-22-2012, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
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On a side note, anyone have experience with these stands Motorcycle Swingarm Stands.
meh.... get ahold of phobeman. he'll make you a stand specific to the 919. it will allow you to put a jack under the engine to hold the front and then you can proceed to strip it down. works really well and you'll get better craftmanship.

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post #32 of 38 Old 02-22-2012, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBeeDeeGee View Post
On a side note, anyone have experience with these stands Motorcycle Swingarm Stands

you can get a swing arm stand for 49.99. The way i lift my bike now I can't remove the axle bolt. ( Push it over on the kick stand and slide a jack stand under the centerstand mount on the right side) so I need to purchase at least a rear stand.
Whatever you go with, I HIGHLY recommend a SPOOL stand. Bikes slide off of paddle stands.

Yes, you have to tap the swingarm and install some spools. It's cheap though, decent spools (8mm bolt with 1.25 thread pitch) are about $10. I did it in an hour, even took some video but haven't had time to process it yet to upload.

Oh, and don't get the short paddle version of the motorcycle stand at Harbor Freight, either. It works, but it's cheap and short - it won't fit my dirt bike, whereas my spool stand will.

2009 Aprilia Tuono - Ginger
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2006 Honda 599 - Ex wrecked it :-D
2007 Honda CB900F (sold)
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post #33 of 38 Old 02-22-2012, 04:35 PM
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*AHEM*

PHOBEMAN STAND!!!

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post #34 of 38 Old 02-22-2012, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBeeDeeGee View Post
On a side note, anyone have experience with these stands Motorcycle Swingarm Stands

you can get a swing arm stand for 49.99. The way i lift my bike now I can't remove the axle bolt. ( Push it over on the kick stand and slide a jack stand under the centerstand mount on the right side) so I need to purchase at least a rear stand.
I use this on the rear,

Motorcycle Swingarm Rear Stand

1999 Honda Valkyrie Interstate
2011 Kawasaki Vulcan Vaquero*
2004 Honda 919 *
2005 Harley Davidson Road Glide *
2002 Honda VTX 1800C*

* SOLD *
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post #35 of 38 Old 02-22-2012, 04:39 PM
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*AHEM*

PHOBEMAN STAND!!!
WON'T WORK ON 900RR HEADERCOOLNESS FACTOR!

*(shameless bump to Phobman to build one, lol)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBB2 View Post
I use this on the rear,

Motorcycle Swingarm Rear Stand
That one is better than their other cheap aluminum one.

2009 Aprilia Tuono - Ginger
2001 XR650R BRP (Big Red Pig)
2006 Honda 599 - Ex wrecked it :-D
2007 Honda CB900F (sold)
2006 Honda VTX 1300C (sold)
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post #36 of 38 Old 02-22-2012, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g00gl3it View Post
WON'T WORK ON 900RR HEADERCOOLNESS FACTOR!

*(shameless bump to Phobman to build one, lol)



That one is better than their other cheap aluminum one.
Solid and one piece design I actually got mine on sale for $25. VERY pleased. Now one to avoid is the one from Northern Tool, VERY wobbly POS

Torin Takedown Motorcycle Support Stand ó 660-Lb. Capacity, Model# TRMT014 | Jacks | Northern Tool + Equipment

1999 Honda Valkyrie Interstate
2011 Kawasaki Vulcan Vaquero*
2004 Honda 919 *
2005 Harley Davidson Road Glide *
2002 Honda VTX 1800C*

* SOLD *
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post #37 of 38 Old 02-24-2012, 07:49 AM Thread Starter
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So I plan on doing this over the weekend. Is it safe to use some kinda of 'break free' liquid on those bolts while they are still on the bike? I plan on covering the brake rotor up. I'm hoping there just corroded or something and not cross threaded in the swing arm.

Next question, if they are cross threaded in there, how the fuck do I get them out?

"A motorcycle is not just a two-wheeled car; the difference between driving a car and climbing onto a motorcycle is the difference between watching TV and actually living your life."
-2005 CBR 600 F4i
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-2002 919 **SOLD
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post #38 of 38 Old 02-24-2012, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBeeDeeGee View Post
So I plan on doing this over the weekend. Is it safe to use some kinda of 'break free' liquid on those bolts while they are still on the bike? I plan on covering the brake rotor up. I'm hoping there just corroded or something and not cross threaded in the swing arm.

Next question, if they are cross threaded in there, how the fuck do I get them out?
Should be fine on the 'break free' chemicals, just don't get it on your brake pads or tire.

If they are cross threaded, which is doubtful, then they'll make a mess coming out, if they don't snap. If it gets that bad, you'll probably have to retap to fit larger size bolt.

2009 Aprilia Tuono - Ginger
2001 XR650R BRP (Big Red Pig)
2006 Honda 599 - Ex wrecked it :-D
2007 Honda CB900F (sold)
2006 Honda VTX 1300C (sold)
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