What Octane - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 41 Old 04-11-2011, 05:33 PM Thread Starter
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What Octane

Owners manual says 87, mechanic say 91 (Also says no cheap "Arco" gas).... Any opinons.... Guessing you guys (me too) certainly have an opinion!

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post #2 of 41 Old 04-11-2011, 05:44 PM
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87.... anything higher is a waste of money and loss of horsepower as its not burning as complete as 87. pluss 91 will stink more than 87 due to that non complete burning.

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post #3 of 41 Old 04-11-2011, 05:45 PM
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87 for me, no particular scientific evidence, just a cheap bastard.

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post #4 of 41 Old 04-11-2011, 05:47 PM
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87 works best unless you're in really hot weather and the engine is pinging (unlikely but possible). arco gas works great for me (any gas really). just run some sea foam every so often and everything is golden.

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post #5 of 41 Old 04-11-2011, 07:16 PM
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87

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post #6 of 41 Old 04-11-2011, 09:52 PM
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Well who engineered the engine, Honda or your mechanic? I run 87 with no issues, what's ARCO gas?



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post #7 of 41 Old 04-11-2011, 10:05 PM
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87 no ethanol. Or you can buy 93 premium for two months and notice nothing except a lighter wallet...which may or may not be considered a weight saving mod....

I may not have a lot to say but it doesn't mean I don't listen.
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post #8 of 41 Old 04-11-2011, 11:54 PM
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arco is a gas station here in the northwest. not sure where else they may be.

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post #9 of 41 Old 04-12-2011, 12:32 AM
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We dont have 87 here. Lowest is 95 and works just fine.

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post #10 of 41 Old 04-12-2011, 01:25 AM
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The US and Europe use different octane rating systems. The conversion factor is the Euro octane numbers are effectively 4-6 points higher than the comparable US numbers.

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post #11 of 41 Old 04-12-2011, 04:47 AM
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87 and I would probably find a new mechanic.

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post #12 of 41 Old 04-12-2011, 05:32 AM
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I'm thinking that maybe this winter I might start using a little higher Octane gas.....


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post #13 of 41 Old 04-12-2011, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctic954 View Post
I'm thinking that maybe this winter I might start using a little higher Octane gas.....

I may or may not be having the same thoughts

Common sense. So rare it's a god damn super power.
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post #14 of 41 Old 04-12-2011, 06:16 AM
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I was using 87 for all the reasons above, however it came to my attention that MN is a E10 mandated state. I found a couple stations that sell non-ethanol gas in their premium pumps. It's 91, but for the lack of ethanol, I suck it up and pay. Had I the option, I would just run 87.

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post #15 of 41 Old 04-12-2011, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyCatcher View Post
I was using 87 for all the reasons above, however it came to my attention that MN is a E10 mandated state. I found a couple stations that sell non-ethanol gas in their premium pumps. It's 91, but for the lack of ethanol, I suck it up and pay. Had I the option, I would just run 87.
Agreed - In MN the only fuel without ethanol is premium Non-Oxygenated. But, per the 919 user's manual, 10% or less concentration of ethanol is acceptable. I still use the non-oxy because I've seen first hand what ethanol laced fuel does to the seals in carbs. I rebuilt the carbs on a '81 yamaha xs650 for a friend and they were terrible. The gaskets and o-rings were somewhere between glue and tar.
So... I use the non-oxy whenever possible.

Also, fair warning for anyone riding through MN, if you fuel at a "Holiday" station, their Blue Planet branded gasoline is 15% ethanol. Bad news. It actually drops the fuel economy in my truck (which normally only get 18 anyways) to about 15.

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post #16 of 41 Old 04-12-2011, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctic954 View Post
I'm thinking that maybe this winter I might start using a little higher Octane gas.....

Are you guys planning on boring your perfectly good motors? None of those gaskets listed in the screen shot are stock 71mm bore.

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post #17 of 41 Old 04-12-2011, 09:39 AM
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It never stops does it...

the answer again
RC51.org the truth about race fuel page

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post #18 of 41 Old 04-12-2011, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
It never stops does it...

the answer again
RC51.org the truth about race fuel page
I'm not arguing with dyno tests, or the fact that some ethanol can increase performance, but in my own experience, MN's overly ethanol-laced fuel can wreak havoc on the seals in older carbs. I know that newer autos are designed with that in mind and use different materials in the seals. I don't, however, know if bikes are. They might be, but I don't know, so I don't chance it. I will gladly give up my 1-3 hp to not have to rebuild parts of the fuel delivery system.

LDH, I respect your knowledge and am absolutely not arguing with you, just stating my experience with the variants of our local blend of fuel.

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post #19 of 41 Old 04-12-2011, 09:52 AM
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You are not going to find ANY brand or grade of gasoline dispensed at the pump in this country that will cause harm to any components of your fuel system

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post #20 of 41 Old 04-12-2011, 10:49 AM
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87 Octane as a steady diet here. The only time I deviate is when we are on tour the and ST and niner need fuel at the same time as the ST takes 93.


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post #21 of 41 Old 04-12-2011, 11:16 AM
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87 and any higher is a waste of money and performance is lost.
Facts both proven.
In a 919 that is.

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post #22 of 41 Old 04-12-2011, 02:24 PM
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I ran a cometic .018 gasket on my 919 with 87 octane. Gave me no problems with 50,000 or so miles on that thinner gasket.

And the cylinders/pisons looked no worse for the wear at 77,000 miles.

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post #23 of 41 Old 04-12-2011, 03:13 PM
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Started with 93 and after a while, and reading here, went to 87, less stink...

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post #24 of 41 Old 04-12-2011, 06:55 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks ladies and gents! I think I have my answer.... you all are like a pack of lawyers.... It depends! But the general consensus seems to be that 87 is just fine and in some peoples experience, better... Love saving a few (more) bucks!

Peter

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post #25 of 41 Old 04-16-2011, 04:20 PM
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I'll +1 the 87 octane. Until you hear it popping and detonating early, I wouldn't run higher just to blow it out the back. (Also, I'd have to second post 3).

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post #26 of 41 Old 04-16-2011, 05:44 PM
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Just put 87 in today vs my normal 91 and yes less stink. 87 is the new 91 for me.

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post #27 of 41 Old 04-16-2011, 06:00 PM
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I used to use high grade all the time. Then, last year, I switched back to 87.

I get significantly better mileage with 87. Like 4 to 5 MPG better. And that's not a joke.

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post #28 of 41 Old 04-16-2011, 07:57 PM
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ride on people! gas isnt getting any cheaper but at least its the cheapest of the normal stuff...

im just glad my 919 doesnt run on long neck bar beer or worse yet, airport 16oz cokes...

i may pay but not willingly much longer...

I may not have a lot to say but it doesn't mean I don't listen.
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post #29 of 41 Old 05-01-2011, 06:55 PM
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I've always enjoyed motorcycle/car guys. Seems we always come up with a reason why conventional wisdom is wrong. First it was synthetic oil was bad for seals and couldn't be mixed with dino oil. Then it was use synthetic, now it seems the cheap Rotella, which car guys say is bad for a gas engine, is all the rage for moto guys. Then it was K&N filters! Good, then destroyed engines and now it seems they are back in vogue again. Now its gas. First higher was better, then it was run what they recommend because anything else is a waste, now it seems higher octane is actually bad for your engine. haha. Cant wait to hear what we come up with tomorrow!

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post #30 of 41 Old 05-01-2011, 07:50 PM
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All you have managed to bring light to is how many idiots out there simply follow the herd or repeat the same crap they have been hearing for years without really knowing if any of it is true or not...

I for one was not content with that kind of hearsay so I did my own dyno testing on various octanes and posted my findings. I did the same thing for aftermarket air filters. If you don't believe my write-ups or the dyno charts then I suggest you go do your own dyno testing to prove me wrong. Until then




as well as race fuels and I have also proven that K&N filters lose horsepower on the dyno

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post #31 of 41 Old 05-01-2011, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
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Seems we always come up with a reason why conventional wisdom is wrong.

First higher was better, then it was run what they recommend because anything else is a waste, now it seems higher octane is actually bad for your engine. haha. Cant wait to hear what we come up with tomorrow!
The problem is the lack of controlled testing by people without a signficant bias or error(s) incorporated in their work or model design. Then, ANY idiot is free to spout whatever they want to call as a "fact", when, it's really just their opinion, or, worse, the product of a poorly designed experiment.

I found it interesting someone with an A/F meter was just testing a bike, and he stumbled upon the idea that 87 Octane was actually running better in his carburated bike than any other higher Octanes. At least he was un-biased enough to notice the difference!

I think one of the main problems with determining which Octane to use is that many people mistakenly believe that Octane-rating is equivalent to a Grade of Quality. It's not. There are some higher QUALITY 85 Octane-rated fuels than the QUALITY of some 93 Octane-rated fuels. Octane isn't really even Octane any more...I believe in the old days it used to be an expression of the percentage of Octane molecules in a sample...not any more. Now, it's a derived value, not an actual value.

Oh, I use 87 in my 919. It's NOT a high-compression engine, and it apparently doesn't have hot-spots in it from carbon tendrils.

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post #32 of 41 Old 05-01-2011, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
All you have managed to bring light to is how many idiots out there simply follow the herd or repeat the same crap they have been hearing for years without really knowing if any of it is true or not...
Thanks! That was EXACTLY my point. Just because I have only 5 posts doesn't mean I'm 7 years old.

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post #33 of 41 Old 05-01-2011, 10:06 PM
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I see the Lord has spoke and once again someone else has shown to be an idiot in his eyes.

I own a Honda Ridgeline and also belong to Ridgelineownersclub.com. On there the man who was the head engineer of the Ridgeline project flat out said that going with 91 in the Ridgeline would increase HP and MPG. and he himself runs 91 in his personal RL. The Ridgeline only requires the use of 87. Even after he said this the armchair engineers still came out and basically said it was dumb to use 91. The engineer basically retired from the site after that. I used 91 in my RL till cost went above $3.50. I now run 87 and you know what, I have LOST 3mpg and this is with summer gas! I'll trust the guy with the degree and experience.
A dyno is a great way to get a base line of performance but it will NEVER tell you what is going to happen in the real world it only shows you a glimpse. Any engineer will tell you that. Get a baseline and then go test on the track.

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post #34 of 41 Old 05-01-2011, 10:12 PM
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Ohhhh boy ...... here we go ....

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post #35 of 41 Old 05-01-2011, 10:22 PM
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There is a big difference between the closed loop fuel injection system with knock sensors that can alter the timing on Ridgeline versus the open loop limited ECU on the 919

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post #36 of 41 Old 05-01-2011, 11:29 PM
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Yes I know. My point as was the other guys is it doesn't matter what is told to someone or by whom, People will believe what they want and do what they want. Case in point; that dude is still going to rub sand on his tires. Despite what we all told him. Ignorance can be cured Stupidity can't

But for me quoting dyno results doesn't make for a solid case or prove a point. It is one piece of evidences for that particular day and at what ever conditions where set up

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post #37 of 41 Old 05-02-2011, 06:21 PM
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i always loved guys who dyno tuned there bikes showing 80 90 100 hp a few years back when riding harleys...i knew for sure i was running 75 80 hp ..they could never understand how id walk way from them on the highway....i never told them eather because they would never understand

dont need a bike to ride the fast lane
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post #38 of 41 Old 05-02-2011, 06:36 PM
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Gents,
LDH can get pointed in his comments, but he is absolutely correct that some engines do not only not need higher octane fuels to run properly, but can lose power as a result if they are fed excessively high octane fuel.
On the flip side of the coin, some other engines, automotive in particular, are designed to run with higher octane in order to make peak power, but have power softening functions to allow them to run acceptably well on 87 - for no other reason than being able to run on 87.

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post #39 of 41 Old 05-04-2011, 05:42 PM
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Just read through this thread. Most if not all of the posts that specified indicated their bikes are carbed. What about fuel injection? The Honda dealer that I bought mine from was very specific about telling me to run at least 91 octane. To me, that means Premium or Midgrade with an octane booster. He was a salesman but has been selling Hondas for a number of years. Am I wasting money buying Premium?

Those of you who think you know everything are annoying to those of us who do!
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post #40 of 41 Old 05-04-2011, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
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Am I wasting money buying Premium?
Yes, the is no point in buying premium.



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