what is potential damage of running with starter engaged - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 15 Old 03-29-2015, 10:01 PM Thread Starter
Tirone
 
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what is potential damage of running with starter engaged

I've been reading this forum off and on since I got my 919 in February. This is my first post and, unfortunately, I need advice for a problem I had today.

On the last leg of a Sunday ride (about 30 miles) I heard a strange noise but only when stopped at a light (the last 5 miles), not while in motion. When I got home, I investigated. I didn't turn the bike off, but instead poked around with my ears. The sound came from the left side just above the transmission and behind the cylinder block. I turned the bike off (with the key). When I turned the key back to run, the bike started automatically. Instantly I found that the starter button was stuck. It was easy to un-stick, but now I'm really concerned about the damage. Does anyone know what to expect or what to look for in terms of damage caused by basically driving 30 miles with the starter engaged? My speeds ranged, but the first 25 miles were freeway speeds of up to 75 miles per hour.

Thanks in advance for your ideas!

Tom

My rides:
  • 2007 Honda 919
  • 2005 BMW R1200RT (sold)
  • 2004 Harley-Davidson XL1200C Sportster (sold)
  • 2000 Honda CB750 Nighthawk (sold)
  • 1996 Honda VT600 VLX (sold)
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post #2 of 15 Old 03-29-2015, 10:23 PM
(Quintus) Pilus Prior
 
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I'd say it would be wear on the starter bearings, brushes, and the gear that engages the ring gear.

I'd take off the starter and look at the shaft that the gear rides on for heat damage. I've rebuilt one before from a different bike, not too big of a job.

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post #3 of 15 Old 03-30-2015, 01:26 AM
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If it was me, I'd run it for a few days and see if the starter gave any evidence [noise, weirdness on starting] of damage that really needed addressing...if not, I would run it till it did.

If it never did anything weird again, then I would consider I'd gotten a free pass....

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post #4 of 15 Old 03-30-2015, 03:55 PM
Tirone
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K1w1Boy View Post
If it was me, I'd run it for a few days and see if the starter gave any evidence [noise, weirdness on starting] of damage that really needed addressing...if not, I would run it till it did.

If it never did anything weird again, then I would consider I'd gotten a free pass....
That's kinda how I roll too. Worst case, you're pushing once and then rebuild it. Since it started the bike already, you may ride it for years and never have another issue.

Some ride reports:
http://leroylanes.blogspot.com/

On two wheels:
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post #5 of 15 Old 03-30-2015, 08:26 PM
Milites Gregarius
 
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Replace the starter button now. Future damage is a starter.

1972 Honda CL350 "sold"
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post #6 of 15 Old 03-30-2015, 08:44 PM
Tribunus Laticlavius
 
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Go out and buy all the parts you'll need to rebuild the starter, thet'll pretty much gaurantee it'll never fail. At least thats how it would work out in my world


Dan
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post #7 of 15 Old 04-10-2015, 08:11 AM Thread Starter
Tirone
 
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Thanks, everyone, for your valuable input. I did look at the service manual on the starter just to see how integrated it is (I've never even removed one before). I can see that it uses a small spline to interface and through my knowledge of physics, I say that the starter should have taken the bulk of any damage. That is relieving to me as I didn't want to have to tear into the engine.

For now, it seems to be working fine, but I know I want to take a look at it when the weather permits. Here in AZ, we tear our bikes apart in summer because it's too darn hot to ride :-D

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post #8 of 15 Old 04-10-2015, 09:03 AM
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The starter would just spin freely.

Once the engine starts and exceeds the speed of the starter, the starting clutch sprevents the engine to give any load to the starter.

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post #9 of 15 Old 04-10-2015, 09:33 AM
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Where abouts are you in Arizona? If you ever need any help with anything, just let me know.

If the starter works fine, fires up the engine with no issues, doesn't make any noise, then I wouldn't sweat it to be honest with you. I've been keeping the starter on my 919 engaged for longer than normal for every start up as a means of countering the cold start issue for over 2 years and haven't had a single issue.

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post #10 of 15 Old 04-10-2015, 09:41 AM
RIDE RED
 
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Also the starter would only be engaged with the clutch disengaged ie at a stop on in between gears (if you use the clutch)

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post #11 of 15 Old 04-10-2015, 12:30 PM Thread Starter
Tirone
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvster View Post
Where abouts are you in Arizona? If you ever need any help with anything, just let me know.

If the starter works fine, fires up the engine with no issues, doesn't make any noise, then I wouldn't sweat it to be honest with you. I've been keeping the starter on my 919 engaged for longer than normal for every start up as a means of countering the cold start issue for over 2 years and haven't had a single issue.
I'm in Tucson. How 'bout you?

What "cold start" issue? It's Tucson, it's never cold
Seriously, I know there is supposed to be one, but I haven't experienced it yet. It's nothing compared to what my Sportster was. Even my BMW R1200RT had trouble in the cold. I found that if I pulled the clutch lever while starting the BMW, it was less of a problem. I think I do that by habit now with the 9er and that might explain why I haven't noticed any issues starting below 50 F.

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post #12 of 15 Old 04-10-2015, 12:36 PM
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Nice, I'm in Tempe but make trips to Tucson every now and then. I sometimes ride with a local group that is called the Winkleman run if you ever want to join us. I will also likely sign up for some track days at the track there in Tucson if you want to join me.

Let me know when you are in the Phoenix area. If you need any help wrenching I'm more than happy to head down your way.

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post #13 of 15 Old 04-10-2015, 01:03 PM Thread Starter
Tirone
 
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I sometimes ride on weekends with the SPRINT sport riders network of Tucson. They're a FB group and about the only reason I keep FB so I can be updated for runs :-)

I'd like to do some track days but I don't have track worthy gear yet. Up to this point, I've always been a cruiser/touring type of rider, this bike is my first foray into sport riding. Eventually I'll have the funds for gear that'll get me on the track.

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post #14 of 15 Old 04-10-2015, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zevilgenius View Post
I sometimes ride on weekends with the SPRINT sport riders network of Tucson. They're a FB group and about the only reason I keep FB so I can be updated for runs :-)

I'd like to do some track days but I don't have track worthy gear yet. Up to this point, I've always been a cruiser/touring type of rider, this bike is my first foray into sport riding. Eventually I'll have the funds for gear that'll get me on the track.
If they'll fit you, I got a spare set of gear you can use. Better yet, the organization I'm thinking of signing up for will rent you some leathers!

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post #15 of 15 Old 04-12-2015, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carotman View Post
The starter would just spin freely.

Once the engine starts and exceeds the speed of the starter, the starting clutch sprevents the engine to give any load to the starter.
The over running clutch is the primary saving grace here, which is what carotman meant.
Good call.
The secondary saving grace is whatever logic is in the ECU to preclude or break supply to the starter as a function of whatever inputs might be getting monitored (gear, clutch, sidestand, speed indication, bank indicator, that sort of thing)
If it still is working and no weird noises or vibrations are being detected, you likely got away with it.
Make sure there is no repeat.

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