What can cause the front to "pull"? - Wrist Twisters
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 19 Old 11-15-2013, 05:42 PM Thread Starter
Tesserarius
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Edison, NJ
Posts: 632
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Wrist Twisters Event Attendance 
Total Awards: 1

What can cause the front to "pull"?

I have had a strange thing happen lately. I have been running CBR 600 F4 forks with Racetech springs with good results for over a month now. Last weekend I changed the rotors & when I went for my commute this monday, I noticed the handlebars were very slightly twisted to the right. Letting go of the bars while riding didnt swerve the bike but throughout my 100 mile commute I constantly made corrections to the bikes trajectory while just droning on the freeway. I figured I didn't install the wheel correctly so that evenning I folow the procedure again.
  1. remove wheel
  2. put wheel back
  3. tighten axle to 43 ft lbs
  4. tighten right pinch bolts to 16 ft lbs
  5. tighten caliper bolts to 20 ft lbs
  6. press front brake & compress forks a few times
  7. after the last stroke of fork compression, i held the bike very steady & tightened the left pinch bolts to 16 ft lbs

Still same result. What gives? The wheel is not bent, it is a mint wheel I bought from a member here. The rotors are straight. Axle is straight. Forks worked fine till I installed the new to me rotors.

arshishb is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 19 Old 11-15-2013, 06:39 PM
(-(-(-(-(- -)-)-)-)-)
 
andrewebay1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 6,883
Rep Power: 1
 
Here's a proper way to tighten the front end down from my old thread: https://www.wristtwisters.com/forums/...tml?highlight=

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmb View Post
Proper Front Axle Fitment Instructions by McTavish McRomo @ March 2012




For 919s, or 919s retrofitted with F4i forks.




Clean the axle and fork leg axle bores.
Lightly oil, not grease, the axle with a light oil, a 5W30 or 0W20 engine oil being ideal.
Lightly oil the fork leg bores.
Fit up the wheel.
Only tighten and torque the (rider on) left fork leg clamp on the axle.
Leave the right hand fork leg clamp free upon the axle.
Torque up the axle’s end bolt to spec. (Do not oil the bolt threads, they should be dry, as should all of the fork leg axle clamp fasteners.)
Torque up the right fork leg clamp on the axle.
Fully release the left fork leg clamp from the axle.
Straddle the bike.
Apply the front brake.
Jounce the front end as energetically as you can.
This lets the left fork leg float about and find it's natural happy spot.
Torque up the left hand fork leg clamp on the axle.




919s fit up quite well.
If the triples have been properly squared by correct sequencing, the marker ring on the axle will show near or at where it should be.
And normally the jouncing does not result in much movement.




A key point within the sequence is the proper preloading of the axial stack through the front wheel.
This seems to always get missed in concept, and it is never properly addressed in the manuals.
The end bolt on the axle is there to ensure that inner bearing races are hard seated and retained against the between bearing spacer.
The bearings are NOT preloaded by this, instead, they actually float upon their internal clearances as referenced against their outer races.
Hence the call to have the right fork leg clamp free on the axle during the end bolt tightening.
One must be sure the axle’s right locating shoulder is very free in order to properly allow the axle to float axially within the bore, which is key in ensuring that the distance washer will properly face up and load up against the inside face of the right fork leg.




END

My classified(s):
Nothing at the moment

----------------
------------
---------
------
---
- '96 Race-retired GSXR 750 (Sold)
- '01 RC51 SP1 (Sold)
- '03 919

"Security is mostly a superstition, it does not exist in nature: avoiding danger in the long run is no safer than outright being exposed. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."-Helen Keller
andrewebay1 is offline  
post #3 of 19 Old 11-15-2013, 06:40 PM
(-(-(-(-(- -)-)-)-)-)
 
andrewebay1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 6,883
Rep Power: 1
 
Also, did you adjust your chain when you did the front end? A rear mis-alignment can throw off the front.

My classified(s):
Nothing at the moment

----------------
------------
---------
------
---
- '96 Race-retired GSXR 750 (Sold)
- '01 RC51 SP1 (Sold)
- '03 919

"Security is mostly a superstition, it does not exist in nature: avoiding danger in the long run is no safer than outright being exposed. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."-Helen Keller
andrewebay1 is offline  
 
post #4 of 19 Old 11-15-2013, 06:51 PM Thread Starter
Tesserarius
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Edison, NJ
Posts: 632
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Wrist Twisters Event Attendance 
Total Awards: 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewebay1 View Post
Also, did you adjust your chain when you did the front end? A rear mis-alignment can throw off the front.
Thanks Andrew. I will try the above process, seems different to the manual as it doesn't ask you to tighten any pinch bolt when tightening the axle.

The chain & sprockets are new, they were installed last month & don't see a need to adjust them yet. Perhaps I will pay it a visit this weekend. Any fancy procedures for that as well?

arshishb is offline  
post #5 of 19 Old 11-15-2013, 06:53 PM Thread Starter
Tesserarius
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Edison, NJ
Posts: 632
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Wrist Twisters Event Attendance 
Total Awards: 1

OK what does this mean:

Quote:
the marker ring on the axle will show near or at where it should be.

arshishb is offline  
post #6 of 19 Old 11-15-2013, 07:08 PM
(-(-(-(-(- -)-)-)-)-)
 
andrewebay1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 6,883
Rep Power: 1
 
Quick way to see if your alignment might be right is to use the markers. Those have been known to be off by a few mm in the past so the super accurate way to measure would to use a meter from the center of the swingarm mount to the center of the rear axle on both sides. The measurements should match.

There's also a way to eyeball from the front of the tire looking at the back but I like measurements better than 'eyeing' it. My markers seem to be on the dot or at least 1mm close, which doesn't seem to cause any wobbles or funny handling, YMMV.


This is just one way that the front could be off. You sure you're not over-analyzing and you just didn't notice before? Roads usually are high-centered for water drainage, maybe something you never noticed before but now that you installed some new toys and did work on it...?

My classified(s):
Nothing at the moment

----------------
------------
---------
------
---
- '96 Race-retired GSXR 750 (Sold)
- '01 RC51 SP1 (Sold)
- '03 919

"Security is mostly a superstition, it does not exist in nature: avoiding danger in the long run is no safer than outright being exposed. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."-Helen Keller
andrewebay1 is offline  
post #7 of 19 Old 11-15-2013, 07:42 PM Thread Starter
Tesserarius
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Edison, NJ
Posts: 632
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Wrist Twisters Event Attendance 
Total Awards: 1

I can "feel" it if you know what I mean. Visual confirmation & symptoms are just the next steps. When I tip in to turn left, because my front is already counter steering, left tip ins are very easy. Rights take more effort & I am right turner; meaning I always go faster in right hand turns at the track & usually slow down way too much on left handers. I will say that the only thing new along with the rotors was that the prior weekend I installed Renthal mediums & my grips are all the way out which I like. I am going to re-tighten this weekend & check again next week. I am half tempted to just throw on my original forks & see if the problem manifests itself there.

arshishb is offline  
post #8 of 19 Old 11-15-2013, 11:25 PM
Community Moderator
 
g00gl3it's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,616
Rep Power: 1
  

Awards Showcase
Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Wrist Twisters Event Attendance 
Total Awards: 3

Tire wear.

...on my Droid.

2009 Aprilia Tuono - Ginger
2001 XR650R BRP (Big Red Pig)
2006 Honda 599 - Ex wrecked it :-D
2007 Honda CB900F (sold)
2006 Honda VTX 1300C (sold)
YouTube Channel
g00gl3it is offline  
post #9 of 19 Old 11-16-2013, 01:10 AM
Centurion
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,310
Rep Power: 1
 
When fitting the wheel, do not use the front brake when bouncing the front. It can pull it out of alignment causing friction. Best practise is to have the callipers off.

NZspokes is offline  
post #10 of 19 Old 11-16-2013, 01:53 AM
(-(-(-(-(- -)-)-)-)-)
 
andrewebay1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 6,883
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by arshishb View Post
I can "feel" it if you know what I mean. Visual confirmation & symptoms are just the next steps. When I tip in to turn left, because my front is already counter steering, left tip ins are very easy. Rights take more effort & I am right turner; meaning I always go faster in right hand turns at the track & usually slow down way too much on left handers. I will say that the only thing new along with the rotors was that the prior weekend I installed Renthal mediums & my grips are all the way out which I like. I am going to re-tighten this weekend & check again next week. I am half tempted to just throw on my original forks & see if the problem manifests itself there.
Check your alignment first. A poor alignment can make the steering biased to one sid.

I've never assembled a fork but I don't think you can screw it up to the point where one side is biased, unless you got the sag off on one side.... did you set the sag proper to your weight and liking?

My classified(s):
Nothing at the moment

----------------
------------
---------
------
---
- '96 Race-retired GSXR 750 (Sold)
- '01 RC51 SP1 (Sold)
- '03 919

"Security is mostly a superstition, it does not exist in nature: avoiding danger in the long run is no safer than outright being exposed. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."-Helen Keller
andrewebay1 is offline  
post #11 of 19 Old 11-16-2013, 08:08 AM Thread Starter
Tesserarius
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Edison, NJ
Posts: 632
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Wrist Twisters Event Attendance 
Total Awards: 1

I completely disassembled the forks, cleaned them thoroughly with brake cleaner, put Racetech .90 springs & fresh Maxima 10W fluid. So they are essentially new. I set all adjusters to stock settings for now, haven't gotten a chance to get my suspension setup; not motivated to do so at this time of the year.

And to add to GoogleIt's thought, the tires are well, have plenty tread left but they are squared off front & back because the PO ran them at ridiculous low pressures, causing pre mature wear. I wont be changing tires till Spring as I would like to start the season with fresh tires.

NZspokes: Why not use the brakes? The manual says so & so does McCromo44's instruction above? If not brakes, how else can you compress the front?

arshishb is offline  
post #12 of 19 Old 11-16-2013, 08:12 AM
Community Moderator
 
g00gl3it's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,616
Rep Power: 1
  

Awards Showcase
Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Wrist Twisters Event Attendance 
Total Awards: 3

I say it's still the tires. Guy at work had the exact same problem and the exact same wear in the tires. We put new tires on and the problem was gone.

...on my Droid.

2009 Aprilia Tuono - Ginger
2001 XR650R BRP (Big Red Pig)
2006 Honda 599 - Ex wrecked it :-D
2007 Honda CB900F (sold)
2006 Honda VTX 1300C (sold)
YouTube Channel
g00gl3it is offline  
post #13 of 19 Old 11-16-2013, 02:09 PM
The Cripple
 
Pvster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 8,770
Rep Power: 1
 
+1 to what Google said. Replace tires. Apply kiss principle here.

Pvster is offline  
post #14 of 19 Old 11-16-2013, 03:04 PM Thread Starter
Tesserarius
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Edison, NJ
Posts: 632
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Wrist Twisters Event Attendance 
Total Awards: 1

Thanks for the suggestions folks, guess I will just suck it up & live with it till Spring when I will change them. No point changing them now.

arshishb is offline  
post #15 of 19 Old 11-17-2013, 04:38 AM
No association w/ Tirone.
 
redletter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Western MD
Posts: 400
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Veteran 
Total Awards: 1

I almost wanted to sell my speed triple because I thought there was something wrong with it because it felt like it was pulling during turns.... I thought I had checked the tire pressure, but 18psi in the front tire was the culprit.

redletter is offline  
post #16 of 19 Old 11-17-2013, 04:00 PM
McTavish
 
mcromo44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,786
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by arshishb View Post

NZspokes: Why not use the brakes? The manual says so & so does McCromo44's instruction above? If not brakes, how else can you compress the front?
The ONLY way to get enough jounce energy is by using the front brake, even though that is counter intuitive to NZ's point.

mcromo44 is offline  
post #17 of 19 Old 11-17-2013, 04:15 PM
Imaginifer
 
HornetMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Columbus
Posts: 474
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by redletter View Post
I almost wanted to sell my speed triple because I thought there was something wrong with it because it felt like it was pulling during turns.... I thought I had checked the tire pressure, but 18psi in the front tire was the culprit.
That's the cheapest fix you'll ever have.

Check the pressures every week if you ride regularly. Otherwise check before you ride. The tires will last a lot longer as an added plus.

"Keep on 9-in"

HornetMan is offline  
post #18 of 19 Old 11-17-2013, 06:10 PM Thread Starter
Tesserarius
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Edison, NJ
Posts: 632
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Wrist Twisters Event Attendance 
Total Awards: 1

Since i commute 110 miles a day; mostly highway droning I run 34 F & 40 R. Both tires are up to spec in terms air pressure.

arshishb is offline  
post #19 of 19 Old 11-18-2013, 09:28 PM
Batman
 
velodesign's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Fargo
Posts: 1,053
Blog Entries: 3
Rep Power: 1
 
I had the same problem, new tires and fresh lube on axle. And then life was good till it snowed

I may not have a lot to say but it doesn't mean I don't listen.
velodesign is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wrist Twisters forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome