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post #1 of 33 Old 05-10-2014, 12:49 PM Thread Starter
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Well F*$!

I decided to take the frame sliders off the F4i today, and apparently the PO put them on too tight. As you maybe can see from the pics the thread stripped some aluminum from the bolt hole on the engine! Now I can't get it to tighten back

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down and I have no engine frame bolt on the right side.

Is is possible to get these holes re'tapped?

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post #2 of 33 Old 05-10-2014, 02:05 PM Thread Starter
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I've read about a helicoil kit. Anyone used one of those to repair a aluminum thread before?

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post #3 of 33 Old 05-10-2014, 02:13 PM
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There was a discussion on here about the oil pan bolt and what to fix it with.

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post #4 of 33 Old 05-10-2014, 02:14 PM
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I just did my handlebar clamp hole...its aluminum...worked fine

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post #5 of 33 Old 05-10-2014, 07:20 PM
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Not only is it OK to use Helicoils in aluminum, it is standard practice in aerospace.

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post #6 of 33 Old 05-10-2014, 08:21 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MF1VE View Post
Not only is it OK to use Helicoils in aluminum, it is standard practice in aerospace.
Good to know thanks for the replies. Is it hard to install one? The website instructions sound easy, but I've never messed with re tapping threads and I don't want to mess up the motor mount

Also will it be alright to ride it without that bolt tightened all the way on one side?

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post #7 of 33 Old 05-10-2014, 08:51 PM
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It looks like that mounting hole itself is removable from the frame, is it not?

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post #8 of 33 Old 05-10-2014, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g00gl3it View Post
It looks like that mounting hole itself is removable from the frame, is it not?
This

But if not, helicoil will work just fine.

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post #9 of 33 Old 05-10-2014, 09:00 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g00gl3it View Post
It looks like that mounting hole itself is removable from the frame, is it not?
Yeah I think that one part may be, but the part that stripped out was way down at the end of the bolt, if you look close you can see the aluminum on the end of the bolt threads.

I got it to bite and start in but it won't tighten all the way down it just spins. I guess I go the helicoil route and document it for anyone else that may need the info later. I gotta figure out what bolt size I need to move up to.

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post #10 of 33 Old 05-10-2014, 09:23 PM
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Unless there is enough material to remove and tap to the next size thread. But then you'd have to also increase your bolt size, which may or may not fit and/or require modification to your slider.

But it might be easier.

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post #11 of 33 Old 05-10-2014, 09:29 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g00gl3it View Post
Unless there is enough material to remove and tap to the next size thread. But then you'd have to also increase your bolt size, which may or may not fit and/or require modification to your slider.

But it might be easier.
Are you saying that if I use helicoil I don't need to go up a size? I think it'd be easy to make the hole in the slider bigger, I'm gonna cut them down anyway

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post #12 of 33 Old 05-10-2014, 09:54 PM
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If you use a helicoil, you still have to drill it out to accept the Helicoil, but you put in the Helicoil that accepts the same size threads as what used to be there. So no modification to your sliders.

But if there is enough material, you could just drill it out slightly (just enough to flatten the threads, not much at all) then tap to the next bolt size. Granted, this weakens the mount somewhat, as you've just removed some material, and now have a bigger bolt putting more pressure (in a fall) on that weakened material.

The 'best' way is the Helicoil. The 'easy' way is drill and tap.

I would keep looking to see if you can replace that whole mount in the frame, it looks like you can take it out and just get a replacement. Maybe a dealer can tell you if they've done it before?

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post #13 of 33 Old 05-11-2014, 04:54 AM
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A step up from Helicoil.

http://www.timesert.com

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post #14 of 33 Old 05-11-2014, 05:28 AM
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That would be my suggestion also. I used one to repair stripped threads on the oil drain bolt hole on my GL1100 Wing.



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post #15 of 33 Old 05-11-2014, 05:45 AM Thread Starter
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Awesome , I feel a little better now. Thanks for the advice guys.

"A motorcycle is not just a two-wheeled car; the difference between driving a car and climbing onto a motorcycle is the difference between watching TV and actually living your life."
-2005 CBR 600 F4i
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-2002 VFR 800**SOLD
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post #16 of 33 Old 05-11-2014, 07:27 AM
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post #17 of 33 Old 05-11-2014, 09:41 AM
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I used the time sert to repair the oil pan drain about a year ago and have had no issues. Highly recommend. As someone already mentioned you may have to go slightly larger with the actual hole to fit the insert but the insert itself will be the same size as the slider. The steel insert could, in theory, make the hole stronger than the aluminum it is "replacing"

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post #18 of 33 Old 05-11-2014, 10:49 AM
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Don't forget once it's fixed to used a breaker bar and torque the new bolt down as hard as you can.
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post #19 of 33 Old 05-11-2014, 10:51 AM
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If you go the Helico route I would expect it to fail if the bike goes down. Probably not total failure as it will be tight but use the highest grade bolt you can get through there to buy a little insurance for a rainy day.

Jeffie's advice on the torque will likely get you a ruined heli-coil.

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post #20 of 33 Old 05-11-2014, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nine1nine View Post
If you go the Helico route I would expect it to fail if the bike goes down. Probably not total failure as it will be tight but use the highest grade bolt you can get through there to buy a little insurance for a rainy day.

Jeffie's advice on the torque will likely get you a ruined heli-coil.
1
Jeffie was joking, bigtime.

2
NEVER go overgrade on a bolt when the application doesn't need it and the material the bolt threads into, can't keep its threads intact if the higher grade bolt is torqued to it's spec. Example, Grade 8 1/4-20 bolts properly torqued, can not be held by the cast aluminum of a CB750 cylinder head. Bitter experience speaking on this point ....................

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post #21 of 33 Old 05-11-2014, 10:04 PM
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So glad to see other people who like Timeserts! I use them in preference to Helicoil. Most of the time, when I mention them, no one else knows of them.

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post #22 of 33 Old 05-12-2014, 06:18 AM
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Is it a blind faster? As in the hole bottoms out into the engine case so you can't access the threads on the back side.

If you can get to the back side of it just run a longer bolt with a nut on it and call it a day. Might be a bitch to get a nut onto, but thats the quick and easy fix.

If it is a blind hole then just go with a helicoil or timesert. Spec out the bolt and order the matching helicoil kit. It will come with the requirred drill bit, coils, tap and install tool.

They are pretty easy to use just make sure you measure the depth of the hole first (again if its a blind faster) then mark off the drill bit with tape so that you don't drill beyond the current depth and damage anything.

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post #23 of 33 Old 05-12-2014, 08:14 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeliMech View Post
Is it a blind faster? As in the hole bottoms out into the engine case so you can't access the threads on the back side.

If you can get to the back side of it just run a longer bolt with a nut on it and call it a day. Might be a bitch to get a nut onto, but thats the quick and easy fix.

If it is a blind hole then just go with a helicoil or timesert. Spec out the bolt and order the matching helicoil kit. It will come with the requirred drill bit, coils, tap and install tool.

They are pretty easy to use just make sure you measure the depth of the hole first (again if its a blind faster) then mark off the drill bit with tape so that you don't drill beyond the current depth and damage anything.
Thanks, it is blind. I can't get to the back of it with out taking the motor out as far as I can see.

"A motorcycle is not just a two-wheeled car; the difference between driving a car and climbing onto a motorcycle is the difference between watching TV and actually living your life."
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post #24 of 33 Old 05-12-2014, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBeeDeeGee View Post
Thanks, it is blind. I can't get to the back of it with out taking the motor out as far as I can see.
Have you pulled up the tank and checked it out from above? Do you have any other pics that show the location and orientation of the bolt and mount?

Just trying to give you a few options .... prior to committing to drilling your engine block.

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post #25 of 33 Old 05-12-2014, 12:57 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Have you pulled up the tank and checked it out from above? Do you have any other pics that show the location and orientation of the bolt and mount?

Just trying to give you a few options .... prior to committing to drilling your engine block.
Not yet, that's a good idea though. I'll try that and see what I can find

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post #26 of 33 Old 05-18-2014, 08:44 AM
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I had the sane thing happen to me on a 2000 f4 and I took the bolt to a friend. He had a tool that looked like a triangular file that was the actual thread size of the bolt and he cleaned out the aluminum. When he handed me the bolt it was perfectly clean and he said if it will not tighten he would come over and tap it a size bigger. I thought the bolt was toast because of all of the shiny stuff on the threads it turn out to be the aluminum case. Fortunately for me his fix worked and my bolt looked like it had pulled a lot more of the threads than yours. I'd you haven already tried maybe just clean the original bolt end off? I know it seams simple and you may have already tried that but it worked for me. Just my 1.5 cents

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post #27 of 33 Old 05-18-2014, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErnsteO View Post
I had the sane thing happen to me on a 2000 f4 and I took the bolt to a friend. He had a tool that looked like a triangular file that was the actual thread size of the bolt and he cleaned out the aluminum. When he handed me the bolt it was perfectly clean and he said if it will not tighten he would come over and tap it a size bigger. I thought the bolt was toast because of all of the shiny stuff on the threads it turn out to be the aluminum case. Fortunately for me his fix worked and my bolt looked like it had pulled a lot more of the threads than yours. I'd you haven already tried maybe just clean the original bolt end off? I know it seams simple and you may have already tried that but it worked for me. Just my 1.5 cents
There are triangular files out there, and I have used them to clean up bolts in the past. However there are also thread files that fit nearly every metric thread you would encounter on a bike in one tool.


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post #28 of 33 Old 05-18-2014, 11:12 AM
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My bad that's what it was a thread file. It worked great and bolt was able to retap almost as it went in I guess because it grabbed just fine. It was a specific file to the size of the bolt.

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post #29 of 33 Old 05-18-2014, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErnsteO View Post
It was a specific file to the size of the bolt.
I generally dislike unitask tools. When you need that one out of a set, you can't find it. I'd rather lose the whole set at that point I guess

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post #30 of 33 Old 06-13-2014, 07:23 AM Thread Starter
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Man, I forgot to check this thread. Thanks for the info on the file. I ended up trying to dig what aluminum I could out of the threads (it wasn't very much, and just on the tip) I purchased a thread repair kit at Autozone, but the damn thing wasn't long enough to get through the frame and down to the messed up threads anyway.

I got a new 10mm bolt from Lowes and slowly threaded it down into the hole, and as I hoped the threads weren't messed up that bad. I think the new bolt cleaned them up enough that I was able to tighten the bolts down again with no issues.

Next step is new brake fluid, CCT, and pretty soon a new chain and sprocket set.


......maybe the track this weekend for Father's Day if I can talk my wife into it

"A motorcycle is not just a two-wheeled car; the difference between driving a car and climbing onto a motorcycle is the difference between watching TV and actually living your life."
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post #31 of 33 Old 06-14-2014, 04:17 AM
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Buy my 919 and you wont have any problems

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post #32 of 33 Old 06-14-2014, 03:49 PM
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Buy my 919 and you wont have any problems
You been tryina pimp that bike hard lately.

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post #33 of 33 Old 06-14-2014, 04:04 PM
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Its one unique machine...

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