Weird behaviour.shut off -> heating issue? - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 31 Old 05-26-2015, 08:07 PM Thread Starter
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Weird behaviour.shut off -> heating issue?

While waiting at a red light today my 9er just died on me...Completely turned off. I turned the key immediately and none of the lights turned on. I waited for another 30 seconds and tried again. It came back to life.

This is the third time this happens in the last 2 months (ever since the warm weather has arrived).

I'm not sure how the bike was the first time it just stopped, but I remember the second time, just like now, the temp needle was slightly above the middle point, but I'm not sure if this sudden shutoff is indeed because of the temperature or not...

Anybody recognize this behaviour?
Or does anybody have any tips on what I should look for if it does happen again.

Thanks

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post #2 of 31 Old 05-26-2015, 08:19 PM
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My temp needle never moves from the black dash above "C".

Bad ignition switch?

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post #3 of 31 Old 05-26-2015, 08:29 PM
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I don't think it's temperature related. I'd say a bad connection somewhere.

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post #4 of 31 Old 05-26-2015, 08:43 PM Thread Starter
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I see. I'll try to look into it. I wonder why now when the temp is higher? rubber on the cables expanding and not doing their job properly? i shall see.

I'll also look into maybe replacing the ignition cables if that's the case.

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post #5 of 31 Old 05-26-2015, 08:58 PM
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I think the temperature is just a coincidence. I've had mine to Vegas in July (45+C) and here in Calgary down to -15C without any issue. My first guess is the battery connection.

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post #6 of 31 Old 05-26-2015, 09:07 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the info
Any suggestion on how I could go about debugging the issue?

Or is it too complicated so should I leave the mechanic to it ?


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Originally Posted by rickard919 View Post
I think the temperature is just a coincidence. I've had mine to Vegas in July (45+C) and here in Calgary down to -15C without any issue. My first guess is the battery connection.

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post #7 of 31 Old 05-26-2015, 09:15 PM
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post #8 of 31 Old 05-27-2015, 05:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ewmin3m View Post
Thanks for the info
Any suggestion on how I could go about debugging the issue?

Or is it too complicated so should I leave the mechanic to it ?
These are tough to troubleshoot. I'd start it up, let it idle and start wiggling wires, and switches. I'd trace main power from battery, starter relay, fuse panel, ignition, bank angle sensor, engine stop relay and engine stop switch.

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post #9 of 31 Old 05-27-2015, 09:16 AM
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Try to tighten the battery cables. It happened to me once on the highway

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post #10 of 31 Old 05-27-2015, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redline919 View Post
Try to tighten the battery cables. It happened to me once on the highway
Hah this just happened again. Went for a ride parked it. Walked back out and nothing. Tightened the cables. Fixed

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post #11 of 31 Old 05-27-2015, 05:26 PM
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Called it!

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post #12 of 31 Old 06-02-2015, 10:18 PM Thread Starter
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so i took the bike for an inspection to the mechanic. Turns out one of the previous owner installed an alpine alarm system for a car hooked into the innards of the 9er. The mechanic cleaned everything up. even after all that my bike still stopped twice today, again when it's at prime running temperature (maybe a bit higher than prime). he recons it might be the water sensor or any of the other sensors...not sure how to proceed from here...

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post #13 of 31 Old 06-03-2015, 03:01 PM
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So, have you changed the coolant and checked the thermostat recently? Does the fan come on & cool things off when it sits in traffic and is hot?
I ask because my bike temp needle has seldom if ever seen the middle of the range. It tends to run well below the mid point.

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post #14 of 31 Old 06-03-2015, 04:13 PM Thread Starter
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Yes. The fan works fine. We revved it up until it was a bit higher than middle and it always went back to the middle temp as normal.

I might order a water sensor and switch that up to see if it changes anything and if not maybe replace the thermostat itself...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark919 View Post
So, have you changed the coolant and checked the thermostat recently? Does the fan come on & cool things off when it sits in traffic and is hot?
I ask because my bike temp needle has seldom if ever seen the middle of the range. It tends to run well below the mid point.

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post #15 of 31 Old 06-20-2015, 10:30 AM Thread Starter
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Coming back to this. I ordered a new water coolant temp sensor.

I was wondering is it possible to remove the sensor until the new one arrives? Or ar least disconnect it?
I can barely ride anywhere without the fear of the engine shutting down on me. Any thoughts?

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post #16 of 31 Old 06-20-2015, 05:19 PM
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So I think the water coolant temp sensor just turns the fan on (I may be wrong - it may send info the the ECM...)
If the issue is high temp then the focus should be on the thermostat. You can pull the thermostat and see if it operates properly by using a pan of water and a thermometer on a stove...
If the shut down issue is not temp related then it's likely electrical. My suggestions would be to check all grounds, look at the battery connections, and take apart and clean the starter and kill switches.

Good luck, Mark

Edit: So just checking the manual... The ECT sensor looks to do double duty - signal to turn on the fan and sends info to the ECM. There is an inspection procedure so you should be able to do that before the new sensor arrives. I would not just disconnect it.

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post #17 of 31 Old 06-21-2015, 12:13 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks I'll take a look.

Did you look in the user manual or the service manual?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark919 View Post
So I think the water coolant temp sensor just turns the fan on (I may be wrong - it may send info the the ECM...) If the issue is high temp then the focus should be on the thermostat. You can pull the thermostat and see if it operates properly by using a pan of water and a thermometer on a stove... If the shut down issue is not temp related then it's likely electrical. My suggestions would be to check all grounds, look at the battery connections, and take apart and clean the starter and kill switches. Good luck, Mark Edit: So just checking the manual... The ECT sensor looks to do double duty - signal to turn on the fan and sends info to the ECM. There is an inspection procedure so you should be able to do that before the new sensor arrives. I would not just disconnect it.

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post #18 of 31 Old 06-21-2015, 12:55 PM
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I was looking in the service manual. The ECT sensor inspection is in section 19. Hopefully you have access to a copy...
There are so many reasons that could cause the bike to shut off - try not to get discouraged if the ECT is not the cause.

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post #19 of 31 Old 06-22-2015, 03:43 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the info I'll take a look at it.

I can't see what else it can be. During hot days when I feel that a "cloud" of hot air coming up from under the engine (usually at stop lights), that's when I know that it will shut down on me.

Is there anything else that could be affected by a sudden "gust" of hot air ? in the engine area?

Also note that this can happen 5min after i start my bike ride (it just depends how hot it is outside).

I am very displeased with this situation :-/

I'm hopping it is because I'm dying to go out and waste fuel :-/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark919 View Post
I was looking in the service manual. The ECT sensor inspection is in section 19. Hopefully you have access to a copy...
There are so many reasons that could cause the bike to shut off - try not to get discouraged if the ECT is not the cause.

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post #20 of 31 Old 06-23-2015, 08:45 AM
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Let us know what you find relative to the ECT sensor. It doesn't sound like the bike is overheating and it seems like the fan comes on as it should.
The gust of hot air you mention is likely the fan coming on which results in an electrical draw. If that causes the shut down then you have all the other checks to make - as mentioned in earlier posts. None of this is hard but does take patience. You should have an electrical multimeter, contact cleaner, deoxit or something similar and sufficient knowledge. Have you check the battery charging voltage both cold and hot?
Our 919s are getting older and, although they are very robust by comparison, the entire electrical system needs normal maintenance. More so if the bike sits outside or gets wet often. It doesn't rain much in Vancouver does it??

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post #21 of 31 Old 07-06-2015, 07:45 PM Thread Starter
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So the water temp sensor arrived but guess what... That's not the part that we were thinking of replacing... :'(

Seeing as my mechanic has access to the US cb 919 schematics, my canadian bike seems to have an additional piece that isn't on the us model. The piece encircled in red (see attached).

Can anybody from Canada (with a 9er from canada) tell me what this thing is?

I'll have to go to a Honda Mechanic now to see wtf is going on...
What a disappointing visit to the mechanic...
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File Type: jpg 0.jpg (85.1 KB, 26 views)

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post #22 of 31 Old 07-06-2015, 08:29 PM
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That WTF part is the oil pressure switch. I doubt it's unique to Canadian bikes - but mine is Canadian, so I don't have a US bike to compare to.
Actually it's shown in the service manual so I'm sure it's common to all.

So if the oil pressure switch isn't working right then the oil pressure warning light should come on...

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post #23 of 31 Old 07-06-2015, 09:06 PM Thread Starter
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I see so that isn't the issue then... :-/ I guess I should go back to the mechanic and get that new water sensor replaced... How odd that nobody has had this issue before :'(

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post #24 of 31 Old 07-06-2015, 09:07 PM
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My bike has a WTF sensor also...

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post #25 of 31 Old 07-07-2015, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ewmin3m View Post
How odd that nobody has had this issue before :'(
Good luck getting to the root cause... I think this issue is not that uncommon. I would broaden your view of the problem. Likely not the ECT coolant sensor. Consider what Richard919 suggested. It's electrical. Either bad connections, an old / near dead / battery, or combination of related items. Really clean all grounds and important connections.
Get the meter out and check voltages. Battery - as it sits over night; after a charge; while starting the engine; at idle; and then at 4000 rpm. Post these results and you'll surely get some comments.

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post #26 of 31 Old 07-07-2015, 10:16 AM
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I still think its a loose/broken wire someplace. Bad grounds or ground loops can cause all kinds of odd behaviors.

My 03 Honda Magna had a bad ground/ground loop that would cause the temperature light to flash and come on solid every time the radiator fan kicked on. The bike wasn't overheating, but it turned out I had a broken (although good looking) ground wire. Once I fixed/jumpered the wire, everything has worked fine since. The Magna is a carborated bike... I can only imaging the kind of havoc you would see on a FI bike.

Just my 2c.



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post #27 of 31 Old 07-07-2015, 02:30 PM Thread Starter
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Seeing as one of the previous owners hacked into the wire harness and strapped an alarm to it wouldn't it be easier to change the entire harness? I don't have the tools or the knowledge to fiddle with the electrics. And I'd rather pay the mechanic to just replace it than pay for the hours to debug the wire harness...


Any thoughts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by crakerjac View Post
I still think its a loose/broken wire someplace. Bad grounds or ground loops can cause all kinds of odd behaviors. My 03 Honda Magna had a bad ground/ground loop that would cause the temperature light to flash and come on solid every time the radiator fan kicked on. The bike wasn't overheating, but it turned out I had a broken (although good looking) ground wire. Once I fixed/jumpered the wire, everything has worked fine since. The Magna is a carborated bike... I can only imaging the kind of havoc you would see on a FI bike. Just my 2c.

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post #28 of 31 Old 07-08-2015, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ewmin3m View Post
Seeing as one of the previous owners hacked into the wire harness and strapped an alarm to it wouldn't it be easier to change the entire harness? I don't have the tools or the knowledge to fiddle with the electrics. And I'd rather pay the mechanic to just replace it than pay for the hours to debug the wire harness...


Any thoughts?
I don't know the condition of your harness or your bike but changing the harness seems like an overkill and it will be pricey. A good price for the main harness is $350 and labor might be 5 hours from a good honda mechanic. And in the end it might just be a battery or a simple connection... A good mechanic can test for that! Don't use a bad mechanic.
My thoughts - Get a multimeter ($25) and learn how to use it. You'll use it for the rest of your life. It's no harder than lubing your chain and most of us don't think that's fiddling - it's just normal maintenance.

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post #29 of 31 Old 07-08-2015, 09:01 AM
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Might be worth it to eliminate bad coils.
My GSXR started doing random shutoffs.
Would crank back up after a couple of tries, but it was annoying and dangerous.

Turns out it was a bad set of dyna-coils I had put in.

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post #30 of 31 Old 07-09-2015, 10:13 AM Thread Starter
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Alright. If I get one how will I know what to look for?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark919 View Post
I don't know the condition of your harness or your bike but changing the harness seems like an overkill and it will be pricey. A good price for the main harness is $350 and labor might be 5 hours from a good honda mechanic. And in the end it might just be a battery or a simple connection... A good mechanic can test for that! Don't use a bad mechanic. My thoughts - Get a multimeter ($25) and learn how to use it. You'll use it for the rest of your life. It's no harder than lubing your chain and most of us don't think that's fiddling - it's just normal maintenance.

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post #31 of 31 Old 07-09-2015, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ewmin3m View Post
Alright. If I get one how will I know what to look for?
LOL on this... I have several friends that I'd never make the suggestion to buy and learn to use a multimeter. They have neither the interest or aptitude to make it work. They don't have or use soldering irons, contact cleaner, or crimping tools. They've never heard of Deoxit and think AC/DC is a rock band... Well maybe it is.
One of the guys has had bikes for 30+ years and all he has ever done is put gas in the tank. He got rid of his last chain drive bike and bought a shaft drive. - Couldn't be bothered to lube the chain. Luckily he has enough $$ so it doesn't matter to him. He just calls the dealer if there is a problem.
So make the decision that works for you.
If you have both the interest and aptitude just do a search on Amazon for "digital multimeter". Any number of good ones will pop up. I'll send a link if you want a suggestion. $25 will get an ok one.
But know that if you do make an electrical mistake it can cause problems. A mechanic would say pay me now or pay me later.

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