Upgraded radiator? - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 32 Old 06-29-2012, 10:12 PM Thread Starter
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Upgraded radiator?

Ok haven't been on for a while but with this heat wave in jersey plus jersey traffic, my bike overheats a lot.

Anybody know of a bigger or better radiator for the 919? Better heat properties? Also maybe a larger cooling fan or twin fan system?

Anything to keep my engine temp down in traffic

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post #2 of 32 Old 06-29-2012, 10:34 PM
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Was just thinking of posting a simular question,as my fan is rattling.Not sure if it is the motor or the blade itself(something is wornout though).

But if I have to replace,

Is there an upgrade?

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post #3 of 32 Old 06-30-2012, 02:29 AM
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I am probably wrong with all of this:

Januik12 - Look for another cause. Thermostat. Some kind of blockage in your cooling system/radiator, Water pump. Very dirty radiator. You won't always see the dirt but I have soaked some grime out of radiators that appeared shiny clean. Something. It seems there are a lot of people in this forum that ride their 919 daily in the hot, crap traffic. 100 degree plus regularly in the summer without issues. Search this forum for WaterWetter and you will come up with a lot of talk about coolant additives. Note the talk about suspiciously failed water pumps using the additives though.

tvetree - If you hear fan noise look for something stuck in it. Think baseball card in bicycle spokes. You can easily stick a finger in and wiggle the fan blade. Excess play might indicate a trashed motor. If it is hosed just replace it if you arent having any other cooling problems.

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post #4 of 32 Old 06-30-2012, 03:17 AM
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I ride my 919 in Egypt's awful traffic, it does not overheat, the needle gauge is about halfway and remains there for the whole day, however the fan is kicking and blows some warm air to my knees.
+1 check the basics first: radiator externally clean, coolant level and concentration, thermostat, radiator cover, make sure no leaks and that you do not have to add coolant too often ...etc and go from there

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post #5 of 32 Old 06-30-2012, 04:51 AM
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Januik12, when you say your bike overheats, where is the needle in the gauge? When I've been stuck in traffic in the heat, mine never climbs past halfway with the fan running.

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post #6 of 32 Old 06-30-2012, 05:31 AM
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I had a different problem, though I'm not as worried about it yet. But when I was riding and it was below 50 degrees out, my temp guage never got up past the notch on the cold side. I was thinking my thermostat was gone or stuck open.

As for your problem. Take a hose to the radiator, but be careful not to bend any of the fins. And make sure theres no dirt or grime or bugs in there. Also a lot of bugs on the front part of the fins will block airflow somewhat.

Next step would be to remove both radiator hoses and run water backwards and see how well water flows through it. Hoping it's not clogged.

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post #7 of 32 Old 06-30-2012, 08:08 AM
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The 919s temp gauge reads over a very narrow range -- though I haven't read the temperatures directly -- but the upper hose stays cool until the gauge is just below the "normal" range, and heats rapidly as soon as the thermostat opens when the gauge is pointing at the gap between the normal range and C. This is where mine runs pretty much whenever I'm going faster than 30 MPH or so until the ambient is above 100. Since the t'stat opens at 185 degrees (F) that's the temp when the needle is at the bottom of the normal range. Roughly. The fan comes on at 205 - 210 F (I think. Don't have the service manual in front of me) which corresponds to about 2/3 of the normal range. As long as the gauge is within that range the cooling system is working normally.

I did have the thermostat stick open -- and the temperature needle never moved off the lower stop unless I was idling for more than a couple minutes on a very hot day. This indicates the cooling system is very well designed for the engine.

Januk12, I'd say your system is working fine.

tvetree, find the cause of the fan noise. Usually this sort of noise is caused by something getting trapped between the fan frame and the radiator that is in the way of the fan. It should be relatively easy to find and cure if this is the case. Otherwise replace the fan with the oem unit. It really doesn't need an upgrade.

+1 on cleaning the fins of the radiator. Dirt and oil from cars accumulates on the fins and acts as an insulator. To clean it properly use a mixture of dish detergent and water (NOT DISHWASHER DETERGENT!!! It is a high value caustic and attacks aluminum) sprayed on the front of the warm (not hot) radiator, let soak for ten minutes or so, and rinse off with a not too vigorous stream of water applied to the back of the radiator until the runoff is relatively clear.

Rob

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post #8 of 32 Old 06-30-2012, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EatDirtFartDust View Post
I had a different problem, though I'm not as worried about it yet. But when I was riding and it was below 50 degrees out, my temp guage never got up past the notch on the cold side. I was thinking my thermostat was gone or stuck open.

As for your problem. Take a hose to the radiator, but be careful not to bend any of the fins. And make sure theres no dirt or grime or bugs in there. Also a lot of bugs on the front part of the fins will block airflow somewhat.

Next step would be to remove both radiator hoses and run water backwards and see how well water flows through it. Hoping it's not clogged.
What you are seeing is pretty normal for the 9'er. They barely get above the cold mark unless you are in traffic or idling for a while. I had the same thought that you did and pulled the thermostat, even tested it in a pot of hot water on the stove and it was spot on and not sticking at all. Just for the hell of it, I put in a hotter t-stat (91 C/ 195F). The stock one is 82C/180F, so I raised the temperature about 15 degrees. Temp gage now runs about 1/4 of the way under normal riding. I decided to do that thinking it may help with the 9'er running rich (stink). I haven't smelled the stink in a while, but I have 900RR setup and wasn't smelling it that much anyway. For some reason I feel better with the gage being above the C mark.

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post #9 of 32 Old 06-30-2012, 04:15 PM
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Marylandmike, can you give us the specs/part numbers on the new thermostat you used? Thanks.

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post #10 of 32 Old 06-30-2012, 04:29 PM
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Hmmm.... interesting experiment on the T-stat and stink.

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post #11 of 32 Old 06-30-2012, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewebay1 View Post
Hmmm.... interesting experiment on the T-stat and stink.
My thought exactly I intend to test this....

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post #12 of 32 Old 06-30-2012, 05:42 PM
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Nothing in/on the fan.Something is worn just haven't opened it to see if it is the motor or the plastic fan blades.Mine has always acted just like a 919 should. (even with the T-stat sitting on the shelf as i never put the new one in last coolant change.)

I will go stock,I'm not really a modallic.I do mostly ask if there is an upgrade when time to replace comes around...

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post #13 of 32 Old 06-30-2012, 05:47 PM
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't our PGM-FI use intake air temperature to calculate fuel requirements? I know from my own experience that I get better gas milage on the highway when it's 85+ outside as opposed to lower temps, but does the coolant temperature have anything to do with it?

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post #14 of 32 Old 06-30-2012, 06:11 PM
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ya i thought on our primitave fuel injection the engine coolant temp was just to go between the cold motor enriched map and the normal running motor map.


janiku, once you answer where the needle gets to / does your fan come on we will be able to answer you completly.

Rob pretty much got it all... i woud like to add that i have ran my 919 in 100+*F weather in the canyons banging on the rev limiter in first n second... fan comes on while mobbing but guage never goes anywhere close to the red... its quite impressive the cooling system is that good.

Normally the fan will never kick on unless im sitting at a light for a long long time.

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post #15 of 32 Old 06-30-2012, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvster View Post
Marylandmike, can you give us the specs/part numbers on the new thermostat you used? Thanks.
Pretty sure that this is the one I used.

Buy Stant Superstat™ Super Premium Thermostat, 195 Degrees Fahrenheit 45849 at Advance Auto Parts

It was a very close fit. I had to use a dremel tool on one side of the flange to get it to set perfectly into the 9'er thermostat housing. I installed it back in the early spring and it pretty reliably keeps the temp at about 1/4 way up the scale.

I always wondered if the stink could be related, like maybe the ECU is always adding fuel trying to warm the engine up. Dunno for sure

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post #16 of 32 Old 07-01-2012, 12:28 AM
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intresting.... paging rob and or ldh

does the 919 fuel injection partially base its mapping on engine temp.... and if so would it lean it out some if a slightly higher engine temp was seen.

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post #17 of 32 Old 07-01-2012, 06:50 AM
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I found an excerpt from a motorcycle fuel injection book that made me think it may help. Couple of clips below (second clip should be first).

Motorcycle Fuel Injection Handbook - Adam Wade - Google Books
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Coolant Temp 1.JPG (36.3 KB, 157 views)
File Type: jpg Coolant Temp 2.JPG (22.2 KB, 16 views)

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post #18 of 32 Old 07-01-2012, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marylandmike View Post
I found an excerpt from a motorcycle fuel injection book that made me think it may help. Couple of clips below (second clip should be first).

Motorcycle Fuel Injection Handbook - Adam Wade - Google Books
The 919 uses absolute air pressure sensing and temperature sensing within the airbox to derive an air density value.
Then the RPMs and Throttle Position inputs get added in to the mix to net a mass air flow rate.
The coolant temp input is a bit of a kicker.
It will enrichen at lower temps to account for the fact that cold engines like some added richness.
Then it leans things out as the coolant comes up to normal temp.
BUT when the temp gets higher than normal, it does not lean things out as one might expect, instead, it starts enrichening as a power (heat) reducing and quenching effect (which would easily evidenced by increased unburned HCs and increased CO).
This is why controlling coolant temp on 919 dyno runs is so crucial in order not to end up with a map unwittingly leaned out to correct for the over temp over richness the ECU will cause.
919s are high volume X low radiant heat area cooling systems. They are not designed for adequate heat rejection rates for extended periods of full power output, noting that very dry lighter high altitude air will reveal this sooner than humid sea level air.
For more, and very authoritative insight into the coolant temp richness protocol, check out 919.org and look for the two part dyno paper. (Part 1 by Dan Kyle, Part 2 by LDH.)

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post #19 of 32 Old 07-01-2012, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nd4spdbh View Post
intresting.... paging rob and or ldh

does the 919 fuel injection partially base its mapping on engine temp.... and if so would it lean it out some if a slightly higher engine temp was seen.
It gets richer at over temp conditions.

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post #20 of 32 Old 07-01-2012, 08:29 AM
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Awesome thread!

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post #21 of 32 Old 07-01-2012, 08:45 AM
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yes... im sure it has a point in time where it flips to over heating mode. im sure it also uses the ect sensor to switch between cold motor enriched mode, and normal running.

that begs the question still. there are obviously three modes that the engine coolant temp sensor switches the ecu between. cold, normal, overheating

but when running in that normal mode, does it meeter fuel based on the extra input of engine temp.

More than likely not as that seems more complicated than what the 919 fi system would lead me to believe.

BUT would the increased combustion temps lead to a more complete burn and thus less stink?

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post #22 of 32 Old 07-01-2012, 09:18 AM
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I'm thinking more about fuel milage than smell, neither of the 05s I've owned have had the stink issue, I've always wondered how much of it is related to the individual rider. I'm short so I make a smaller low pressure area behind me, and I've run several different exhausts and never had any problems with stink. But that's another thread...

I know for a fact that my fuel milage can vary by as much as 15mpg depending on ambient air temperature on all highway tanks. At sea level, riding at a nearly constant 85 indicated I'll get about 35-37mpg if the temps are in the 60s or lower, but I've seen as high as 49-50 riding in the 90s. Since I'm on the highway the temperature gauge stays around the very bottom, but I have noticed that it will get ever so slightly higher into the normal range when it's hot, am I onto something or am I crazy?

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post #23 of 32 Old 07-01-2012, 12:33 PM
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Went for a ride today, the temp gauge never came higher than half way and it is HOT here now. The fan was running at lower speeds, we did alot of back road exploring, I mean horse trails..., once over 40 the gauge was at one third and stayed there.

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post #24 of 32 Old 07-01-2012, 04:51 PM Thread Starter
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Yea I mean I never usually have a problem with my temperature, just in this heat and once before in real heat. I'll look into it on the bike but I've seen it happen on other bikes also including my buddy's tripe this weekend who was riding with me and i just assumed it was par for the course. Just out new coolant in when I did the exhaust over the winter, but I'll check the whole system. Thanks for the info guys.

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post #25 of 32 Old 07-01-2012, 05:34 PM
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Mine will go up to about 75%, the fan comes on, then it will go to about halfway for a while, or until I start moving. As far as I know the coolant hasn't been changed and I've got 19k miles, maybe I should think about doing it.

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post #26 of 32 Old 07-01-2012, 06:48 PM
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Mine gets about halfway when it's hot out.

Contact ron davis radiators if you need something custom made - they did a great job on some 1974 formula ford radiators - not cheap but worth it.

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post #27 of 32 Old 07-02-2012, 01:55 PM
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pretty much, to keep it simple like the 919.


If your temp gauge stays out of the red ... your fine, dont bother messing with the cooling system.

If you hit the red, something is wrong.

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post #28 of 32 Old 07-02-2012, 05:39 PM
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Anyone living in a high ambient temp area, and does not have winter freezing concerns, would be wise to switch to 75 % distilled water and 25 % EG and use WaterWetter.
50/50 is actually not very good as a coolant, at least not compared to water.

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post #29 of 32 Old 07-02-2012, 05:44 PM
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We're on topic...so here goes. Anyone tried one of these deals? NITRO X FUEL COMMANDER POWER CHIP FOR : CB 900 F Hornet,919 | eBay

From a previous thread, someone mentioned this manipulates the temp sensor on the intake to adjust fuel. Load of crap or possible stink fix?

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post #30 of 32 Old 07-02-2012, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
Anyone living in a high ambient temp area, and does not have winter freezing concerns, would be wise to switch to 75 % distilled water and 25 % EG and use WaterWetter.
50/50 is actually not very good as a coolant, at least not compared to water.
actually even 25% EG your good down to like 10*f

I run 70% distilled water and 30% EG and water wetter... temps are always damn good!

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post #31 of 32 Old 07-03-2012, 01:23 PM
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Mine stunk terrible with stock pipes, I haven't had issue since installing new cans. Rode 2 up 200 miles last weekend with no stink as before.

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post #32 of 32 Old 07-03-2012, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
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actually even 25% EG your good down to like 10*f
Correct, and at concentrations over 10 EG, it won't even freeze solid and instead turns to a slush.

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