TPS sensor pictures - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 226 Old 02-01-2013, 11:51 AM Thread Starter
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TPS sensor pictures

As per requests, here are pictures of the TPS sensor for future reference.




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post #2 of 226 Old 02-01-2013, 12:42 PM
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Thanks PV. I was the one who asked for pictures. I am thinking that this one I found on EBAY looks like it may work. No way to know for sure without trying it, but if anyone needs one it may be a cheaper option than a whole throttle body. If it doesn't work, you could probably re-list and sell it on EBAY. Mine is working fine but I have saved the link just in case. If this is the one, the auction talks about why they are so hard to find.

1988 1989 1990 1991 Honda Civic Dpfi Throttle Position Sensor TPS JT2R | eBay

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post #3 of 226 Old 02-01-2013, 01:04 PM
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Are there any numbers or markings on it PV?

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post #4 of 226 Old 02-01-2013, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmb View Post
Are there any numbers or markings on it PV?
The markings on mine are very faint, but mine says JT4R. The one in the auction is JT2R. I have found a bunch of ones marked JT4R but they all rotate in the wrong direction.

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post #5 of 226 Old 02-01-2013, 01:51 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marylandmike View Post
The markings on mine are very faint, but mine says JT4R.
Same, mine says JT4R on the spare as well as on the bike.

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post #6 of 226 Old 02-01-2013, 01:52 PM
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Good luck Mike, I hope it works for you. It would be a great resource to be able to buy a TPS with confidence it will work on our 919's.

Well, fire the engines! Spur this iron space-pony on!

"The Shadow"
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post #7 of 226 Old 02-01-2013, 02:08 PM
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Are you going to try one Mike?

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post #8 of 226 Old 02-01-2013, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmb View Post
Are you going to try one Mike?
Probably not right away. $130 is a lot to spend on something that's not broke. But I have it saved in case I ever need one. I did send a message to the seller and tell him that it may possibly work in some Honda Motorcycles and told him I would be glad to test one for him and send it back.

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post #9 of 226 Old 02-01-2013, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marylandmike View Post
Probably not right away. $130 is a lot to spend on something that's not broke. But I have it saved in case I ever need one. I did send a message to the seller and tell him that it may possibly work in some Honda Motorcycles and told him I would be glad to test one for him and send it back.
Hopefully he'll bite, did you tell him our alternative is a $1k+ part? I's probably buy one for a spare...

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post #10 of 226 Old 02-01-2013, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmb View Post
Hopefully he'll bite, did you tell him our alternative is a $1k+ part? I's probably buy one for a spare...
Yeah I told him it was $1700

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post #11 of 226 Old 02-01-2013, 03:32 PM
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Good find Mike! but yea the $130 price might be a limited time if it does work..

My classified(s):
Nothing at the moment

----------------
------------
---------
------
---
- '96 Race-retired GSXR 750 (Sold)
- '01 RC51 SP1 (Sold)
- '03 919

"Security is mostly a superstition, it does not exist in nature: avoiding danger in the long run is no safer than outright being exposed. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."-Helen Keller
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post #12 of 226 Old 02-04-2013, 07:20 PM
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I got a reply from David (the Ebay seller) and he thinks based on the pictures that PV posted here that this may be our TPS. Really nice guy. We are currently working on figuring out how to exchange TPS's for testing.

From e-mail....

Hi Mike,

...I think you are 100% correct, this is very likely to be the same part. And yes, if we can test this out and make sure it is in fact the right part everyone wins. I got into this business because I had a 1988 Honda Civic DX, excellent condition, nothing wrong with it, just needed a TPS. Not only did Honda not sell the TPS, they stopped selling the throttle body too! However, if I am going to sell this as the correct part, I need to be absolutely sure it is the correct part and works absolutely perfectly and that I can answer installation and adjustment questions. I don't have access to a Honda 919, so I will have to rely on group members for testing and installation advice. I downloaded the manual for the 919 and the TPS voltages and checking procedures appear to be VERY similar to the Honda Civic. This is awesome and very rewarding because it makes a difference to so many people. Because you noticed this people all over the US and where ever these bikes end up will have a much better option and it helps keep it profitable so I can continue to offer the part.

Okay so here is my proposal if it works and sounds good to you. I will send you one of my TPS's to you free of charge. Install it on your bike, drive it around a few weeks or until you feel sure it works perfect.
Ship the old one back to me (along with the old TPS bolts, if you have them). I will also compare it and test it to make sure it is the same part, if it is not I will send it back, but you can keep both. I don't want to put your situation in any risk.

We can report back to group our findings. I will be largely depending on the group to provide installation procedures. For example , I assume the bolts on the TPS are the same as the Honda Civic, but we need to be 100% sure so we can give people the right replacement bolts. I also want to make sure it is removed in the same way, buy cutting 2 slits in the original bolts so they can be removed...

Please feel to share any part or even a copy paste of this to the group if you like.

David

Netplace Enterprises

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post #13 of 226 Old 02-04-2013, 09:07 PM Thread Starter
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Very cool!!! Nice work Mike!

Heck, I say we make that tps sensor he sends you a tps whore and test it on several different 919's of different years to see what happens. You should get it back, of course. Would be very cool to find out if this actually works because then it should work globally for all 919s!

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post #14 of 226 Old 02-04-2013, 09:08 PM
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Alright Mike! So you gonna go for it? Take one for the team sorta speak.

My classified(s):
Nothing at the moment

----------------
------------
---------
------
---
- '96 Race-retired GSXR 750 (Sold)
- '01 RC51 SP1 (Sold)
- '03 919

"Security is mostly a superstition, it does not exist in nature: avoiding danger in the long run is no safer than outright being exposed. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."-Helen Keller
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post #15 of 226 Old 02-04-2013, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewebay1 View Post
Alright Mike! So you gonna go for it? Take one for the team sorta speak.
Yeah I would like to give it a try and see if it will work. It would be cool to have a source for these instead of trying to scrounge them off of parted out bikes or buy a new throttle body

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post #16 of 226 Old 02-04-2013, 09:46 PM
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After a little snooping in a Honda car forum, it seems the TPS on the cars TB have a notchless screw holding it on, which lead people to believe its riveted when you can actually score or cut a groove and use a flathead to back it out.

Wonder if it's the same on a moto.

My classified(s):
Nothing at the moment

----------------
------------
---------
------
---
- '96 Race-retired GSXR 750 (Sold)
- '01 RC51 SP1 (Sold)
- '03 919

"Security is mostly a superstition, it does not exist in nature: avoiding danger in the long run is no safer than outright being exposed. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."-Helen Keller
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post #17 of 226 Old 02-04-2013, 10:13 PM
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I have a few old 88-91 gen civics in the "bone yard" on my dads farm. I will pull one off next time I am down home and test it out.

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post #18 of 226 Old 02-05-2013, 04:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewebay1 View Post
After a little snooping in a Honda car forum, it seems the TPS on the cars TB have a notchless screw holding it on, which lead people to believe its riveted when you can actually score or cut a groove and use a flathead to back it out.

Wonder if it's the same on a moto.
Yep it's the same. You can to cut a slot or use awl, center punch, or something else with a sharp point at an angle to get it moving, then it will come right out.

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post #19 of 226 Old 02-07-2013, 10:18 AM
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Hi everyone,

This is David the ebay TPS guy. I am really excited about the possibility the JT2R TPS will work on your Honda 919’s. I will be shipping one to Mike today for the definitive test! Physically it looks identical, but Mike will let us know for sure. The information below will tell us almost conclusively if this TPS will work for this bike or not. In addition it will be used for the calibration procedure.

This information is more reliable if it comes from more than one individual. So if you can contribute to the list below it would be wonderful! Mike is going to do C & D, not everyone is in a good position to do that one so contribute what you can. A, B, E, and F are easy ones if you have the right tools. These instructions are intended to be used with the picture below. Let me know if you have any question about the directions.

I had hard time finding a copy of the service manual for the 919, all the links were dead or they wanted to sell it. Anyway, I found one and placed it on my server for those who might wish to download it.


http://www.davidkennedy.org/ebay/Hon...-converted.pdf


Thanks for all your help! - David


Honda 919 TPS Test Measurements – TPS on Bike and Unplugged
Note: This means the TPS is being measured in its calibrated or original know to be working position – No MIL blinks.

A: Measure the TPS resistance between pins 1 & 2 with closed or resting throttle.
Marylandmike- 0.81 KΩ
nd4spdbh- 840 Ohms


B: Measure the TPS resistance between pins 1 & 2 with the throttle wide
open.
Marylandmike-4.40 kΩ
nd4spdbh- 4.65K ohms

Honda 919 TPS Test Measurements – TPS off Bike and unplugged

C: Measure the TPS resistance between pins 1 & 2 in the Midpoint Test

Position (see picture).
Marylandmike- 2.70 KΩ

D: Measure the TPS resistance between pins 1 & 3 in the TPS’s Natural or

resting position.

Marylandmike- 4.69 KΩ

Questions:

E: What colors do you have for pins 1, 2, and 3 for your TPS female

connector?

Marylandmike- Pin 1- Green with Orange Stripe, Pin 2- Red with Yellow Stripe, Pin 3- Orange with Red Stripe

F: What size (thread and length) replacement bolts do we need for the 919
TPS?

Marylandmike- M5-.8 X 12




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post #20 of 226 Old 02-07-2013, 10:58 AM
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David, we really appreciate you helping us with this. It would be great to have a source for a TPS without great expense and may also help you grow your business and help other motorcyclists in the process. I am sure that there are other bikes that have the same issue and probably the same TPS.

I should be able to do C&D on my current TPS in the next day or two and will do the one that you send shortly after I get it. I will post the results here. I replaced my bolts too so I should be able to tell you what I used.

As David said, anyone else that can help without too much trouble it would be appreciated to get as much data as possible. If you post it in this thread, I will consolidate it in David's post above to make it easier to decipher.

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post #21 of 226 Old 02-07-2013, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvster View Post
Very cool!!! Nice work Mike!

Heck, I say we make that tps sensor he sends you a tps whore and test it on several different 919's of different years to see what happens. You should get it back, of course. Would be very cool to find out if this actually works because then it should work globally for all 919s!

Honda did no make very many TPS's in this style and they are all variations with just 7 variables. Left or right mount, Left or right direction of turn, resistance or output voltage (most the same) , and one of 2 connector types.

So identifying if the part will work on a given bike is really not that hard.
If it has the same mount, turn of direction, output and connector; you are good to go. A good picture and a voltmeter will tell you what you need to know.

The TPS I sell is the oldest version and was used by Honda to get around the smog requirements. By using this TPS Honda could keep using a carburetor and say the fuel was "computer controlled" avoiding true fuel injection redesigns and saving money. This is the only Honda TPS (in this style) that turns in the opposite direction because it was designed to be used on a carburetor.


Is is very likely they used this same part on other naturally aspirated bikes
that required computer controlled fuel to meet EPA regulations.


-David

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post #22 of 226 Old 02-07-2013, 03:32 PM
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eh hemmmm...... you should search a little deeper on the forum.... I put one on my 919 from a civic... but it was not a bolt on.

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post #23 of 226 Old 02-07-2013, 03:41 PM
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sorry take that back, missed the last posts. It appears this one might work but the ones off the ones from 88 and up will not bolt directly on...


will subscribe....

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post #24 of 226 Old 02-07-2013, 04:13 PM
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Hello and welcome David! Thanks for doing this for us, like Mike's mentioned, my guess is if this works it should work for many other Hondas (other Japan makes as well maybe).

Good luck and hope this works!

My classified(s):
Nothing at the moment

----------------
------------
---------
------
---
- '96 Race-retired GSXR 750 (Sold)
- '01 RC51 SP1 (Sold)
- '03 919

"Security is mostly a superstition, it does not exist in nature: avoiding danger in the long run is no safer than outright being exposed. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."-Helen Keller
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post #25 of 226 Old 02-07-2013, 04:17 PM
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WOW, this is awesome!!! a rep from ebay is on here! thats amazing! talk about some customer service, it will be interesting to see how this pans out!

@netplaceus Here is a link to the service manual.

http://teamlosi.andrevas.net/pics/ri...ice_Manual.pdf

its from my personal webhost

Starting on 106 of the PDF.

Looks as if pin 1 is the same 5v pin from the ECU and pin 3 is the ground... thus leaving the center pin for the actual measurement... so everything lines up physically with the configuration of the pins / connector.... the service manual does not give any direct measures of OHMS of the actual TPS.


EDIT- just got off my lazy ass and dis some testing for you

Writing on the side of the TPS = JT4R

TEST A (as described above) yeilds 840 Ohms
TEST B (as described above) yeilds 4.65K ohms

and i did a third test between pin 1 and 3 to get overall OHMs of the potentiometer in the TPS = 4.75k Ohms

and ofcourse no MIL lights on... its a 919, problems of the sort never happen haha.

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post #26 of 226 Old 02-07-2013, 04:28 PM
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OK here's my readings....fingers crossed that it looks close to David's data:

TPS on Bike and Unplugged (Pin 1,2): 0.81 KΩ resting 4.40 kΩ wide open

TPS off Bike and Unplugged: (Pin 1,2) 2.70 KΩ midpoint, (Pin 1,3): 4.69 KΩ resting

Wire Colors: Pin 1- Green with Orange Stripe
Pin 2- Red with Yellow Stripe
Pin 3- Yellow with Red Stripe

Replacement Bolts: M5-.8 X 12

Let me know if anything looks odd and I can re-check.

edit: updated David's post with mine and nd4's data. Wasn't sure where to put the third test that nd4 did.

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post #27 of 226 Old 02-07-2013, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeef View Post
eh hemmmm...... you should search a little deeper on the forum.... I put one on my 919 from a civic... but it was not a bolt on.
I studied your post several times before I started this quest. It was very useful info! That's where I learned that they rotated in different directions.

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post #28 of 226 Old 02-08-2013, 11:41 AM
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I don't speak even a single word of Electrics/Electronics, but you fellows have got some interesting sh*t going on here...

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post #29 of 226 Old 02-08-2013, 03:43 PM
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A: Measure the TPS resistance between pins 1 & 2 with closed or resting throttle.
Marylandmike- 0.81 KΩ
nd4spdbh- 840 Ohms
Netplaceus- (measured on D15B2 Civic) 387 Ohms

B: Measure the TPS resistance between pins 1 & 2 with the wide open.
Marylandmike-4.40 kΩ
nd4spdbh- 4.65K ohms
Netplaceus- (measured on D15B2 Civic) 4.35K ohms

C: Measure the TPS resistance between pins 1 & 2 in the Midpoint Test
Marylandmike- 2.70 KΩ
Netplaceus- 2.58 KΩ Note: THIS IS GOOD NEWS!

Wire Colors and Replacement screws are different, but none of that affects our part.


************************************************** ************
I think for the most part there is really only one question I have left.
What color screws do you guys want, silver or black?

Here is how I interpret the data:

First, understand these TPSs all have a built in, and expected, deviation of something
a little over 200 ohms among the same part. This is why they have slot holes that allow
for a 500 ohm adjustment. The extreme ends of this TPS (full rotation right or left) are never
used because they are not accurate or reliable. The little wiper on the inside is just too
close to the ends of the resistive material. So your throttle determines all that.

Of course, a Honda Civic and a Honda 919 are not likely going to have the same exact open and
closed throttle positions even if they have the same TPS. I do not think the A and B
measurements above mean anything other than the 919 starts and stops in a slightly different
place. A little more than a 16th of an inch I figure. However, this data combined with the data
below tell me we have the same TPS.

This is why I was so interested in the Midpoint Test. It says your TPS and mine line up 100%
at a given and know point. The 12 ohm difference amounts to nothing. The TPSs I sell often
have a 50 Ohm difference or more. Its normal.

nd4spdbh did a third test that I should have included, he measured the overall OHMs of the 919
potentiometer to be 4.75k Ohms. So just for fun I measured about 10 of mine. They ranged from
4.60k - 5.20k Ohms.


In other words your 919 TPS looks to be a 5 volt, 5k Ohms, clockwise rotating, left diagonal mount
TPS just like mine! Mike will let us know for sure soon! I am off to the post office right now, it will take
2 3 days to arrive.

Than you all so much for your help! -David





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post #30 of 226 Old 02-08-2013, 03:55 PM Thread Starter
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Sweet! This is looking better and better!

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post #31 of 226 Old 02-08-2013, 03:59 PM
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Alright! I thought we were going to need Rob to chime in but I guess it's not complex enough. Lol

All Latin to me, however but I take it it's looking good for us 919 owners. Wonder how many different model bikes can use this TPS

My classified(s):
Nothing at the moment

----------------
------------
---------
------
---
- '96 Race-retired GSXR 750 (Sold)
- '01 RC51 SP1 (Sold)
- '03 919

"Security is mostly a superstition, it does not exist in nature: avoiding danger in the long run is no safer than outright being exposed. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."-Helen Keller
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post #32 of 226 Old 02-08-2013, 04:25 PM
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Excellent! Definitely looks promising.

I checked mine off the bike too Pin 1,2- Resting 404 ohms, fully turned 5.05 KOhms so that would be right at 4.6 Kohm range.

Back on the bike I was able to get the resting reading between pins 1,2 down to about 500 ohms if turned all the way in the slot and up to 950 ohms turned all the way the other direction. The 919 TPS definitely doesn't use the full rotation either way.

The midpoint looks real good.

Can't wait to try it out on the bike!

Thanks David!


edit: The screws that were in there were silver, but I would vote for black for replacements. I have black allen head bolts in there now and they were only 80 cents for 4 of them at Lowes.

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post #33 of 226 Old 02-08-2013, 04:26 PM
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Drooling!

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post #34 of 226 Old 02-08-2013, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marylandmike View Post
Excellent! Definitely looks promising.

I checked mine off the bike too Pin 1,2- Resting 404 ohms, fully turned 5.05 KOhms so that would be right at 4.6 Kohm range.

Back on the bike I was able to get the resting reading between pins 1,2 down to about 500 ohms if turned all the way in the slot and up to 950 ohms turned all the way the other direction. The 919 TPS definitely doesn't use the full rotation either way.

The midpoint looks real good.

Can't wait to try it out on the bike!

Thanks David!


edit: The screws that were in there were silver, but I would vote for black for replacements. I have black allen head bolts in there now and they were only 80 cents for 4 of them at Lowes.
Yes, I thought people might like black better too.

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post #35 of 226 Old 02-08-2013, 04:43 PM
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Oh and thanks for the additional measurements. I can't wait to see how this works out!

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post #36 of 226 Old 02-11-2013, 05:42 PM
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I got the TPS today in the mail from David and installed it and so far so good!

Initial impressions: The look, feel, and quality of the part seem to be exactly as the OEM Honda Part and it was packaged very well. David included a gasket, but I could swear that mine never had a gasket. Anyone else who has had theirs off remember one?

Here is a pic installed



I measured the pin 1,2 resistance with it off the bike and pretty much got exactly the readings that David posted (about 500 ohms in the resting position). I installed it on the bike and was going to try to set it to about 800 ohms (same as reading I took on the OEM) in the resting position but couldn't get any more than 500 ohms with it adjusted all the way in either direction. I ending up leaving it rotated all the way CCW and tightened it down. Got about the same resistance as the OEM reading at WOT (~4.6 kohms). Plugged it in and turned on the ignition and no MIL blinks, started it and idled for a minute or so, revved it some, all good! Went on about a 5 minute ride around the neighborhood and the bike seems to run just great. Not quite ready to declare victory, but I think it’s looking real good. I would like to get some longer distance and varied speed/RPM riding this coming weekend.

I was a little worried when I couldn’t get close 800 ohms on the low end, but it really didn’t seem to matter at all to the bike ECU as the bike started right up and ran great for the small amount of riding I did.

Thanks again for doing this David!

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post #37 of 226 Old 02-11-2013, 09:34 PM
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Nice !!!!!

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post #38 of 226 Old 02-12-2013, 01:26 AM
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Nice !!!!!
+1!

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post #39 of 226 Old 02-12-2013, 01:45 AM
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Good job, guys!

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post #40 of 226 Old 02-12-2013, 06:51 AM
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TPS

This has been a mega helpful thread.
The gents involved should get some awards credits, that's for sure.
And the price of used TB block assemblies just tanked ...................

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