Tire edged design and sand, do the groves matter? - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 12 Old 01-31-2019, 09:31 AM Thread Starter
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Tire edged design and sand, do the groves matter?

For street use, one area that can really screw things up is sand on a turn.

I noticed some tires have very little or no groves along the edges where you would be if you were leaning in a turn. Others have more there.

I get the rain grove part, but wouldn't that have some truth with sand as well?

Meaning, if you have a mostly smooth area around the edge and you hit sand, you're going to have a harder time than if you had some groves in that same area.

Just noticing the design of different tires and thinking about the worst thing we usually get on the road. Sand, gravel, oil, on a turn.

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post #2 of 12 Old 01-31-2019, 11:23 AM
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New road 5's have no edge grooves, so far it hasn't been an issue

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post #3 of 12 Old 01-31-2019, 12:37 PM
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I can see how those road 5s would be good in the wet with those micro grooves.

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post #4 of 12 Old 01-31-2019, 12:58 PM Thread Starter
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And now compare that to this: Dunlop unveil street friendly but track focused Sportmax Q4 | MCNews.com.au

This has one single slice "every so often", so it almost looks like a slick.

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post #5 of 12 Old 01-31-2019, 01:38 PM
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The Pirelli Diablo stradas I have are at the other end of the spectrum when compared to those Dunlops.
I say this. The more aggressive tread pattern may offer more grip on loose surfaces but less on wet and wear faster.
The more slicker types of treads with grooves grip better on hard surfaces and in the wet.
Those road 5s look like a good compromise between the two.
I take my bike down a lot of gravel roads and never had an issue with the Diablos. I feel very confident.
The sealed roads where I ride are awful. A lot of potholes, repairs, loose gravel and blue metal. Never slipped.
I also like the look of the tread pattern. But I never ride in the wet so can't say if they are any good in the wet.
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post #6 of 12 Old 01-31-2019, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voodooridr View Post
New road 5's have no edge grooves, so far it hasn't been an issue

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It sounds as though for cold and/or wet road riding, these are the way to go.
Plus they perform well in the warm and dry.

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post #7 of 12 Old 01-31-2019, 06:49 PM Thread Starter
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I wondering if someone got the "more slick" tires for the street, if it would really be a waste for most riders. If they are more "track" type tires that have very few grooves, they might not do as well with sand on a turn, but offer more traction under ideal conditions... However, more traction under ideal conditions is a waste for anything you don't use. In other words, having 2X the traction you need is a waste. So having 1.5X the traction you need and being able to handle sand and gravel better, would be the better choice.

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post #8 of 12 Old 02-01-2019, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlJay View Post
For street use, one area that can really screw things up is sand on a turn.

I noticed some tires have very little or no groves along the edges where you would be if you were leaning in a turn. Others have more there.

I get the rain grove part, but wouldn't that have some truth with sand as well?

Meaning, if you have a mostly smooth area around the edge and you hit sand, you're going to have a harder time than if you had some groves in that same area.

Just noticing the design of different tires and thinking about the worst thing we usually get on the road. Sand, gravel, oil, on a turn.
Tire sipes work by giving a place for the liquid to displace so that rubber can touch the road without hydroplaning. As sand is not a fluid, it won't react the same way, and as such sipes likely wouldn't help. If anything, they'd make it worse, as in a low traction situation you'd want as much rubber on the road as possible so hopefully some of the rubber is on a spot with less or no sand.

The reason many tires don't have sipes on the very edge, is because sipes are only good for water displacement, and most sane riders won't be using the edges of the tire when there is water on the road, so more rubber is better at that point.

Anecdotally, you'd be amazed how much grip a race slick can still have in wet/light rain conditions. Once there is standing water you tend to hydroplane much easier, but they grip surprisingly well until that happens.

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post #9 of 12 Old 02-01-2019, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlJay View Post
I wondering if someone got the "more slick" tires for the street, if it would really be a waste for most riders. If they are more "track" type tires that have very few grooves, they might not do as well with sand on a turn, but offer more traction under ideal conditions... However, more traction under ideal conditions is a waste for anything you don't use. In other words, having 2X the traction you need is a waste. So having 1.5X the traction you need and being able to handle sand and gravel better, would be the better choice.
95% of riders can't/won't out ride a decent sport touring tire on the street. As I said above, slick tires can grip really well in the wet, but only until they start to hydroplane. I suggest to everyone to run a Michelin Pilot Road tire (or something similar like the Pirelli Angel GT) because the likelihood of you being able to outride them on the street is ridiculously low, and they'll be better in cold and rainy situations.

Like I said above I don't know that that applies the same way to sandy or especially to oily conditions, but I'd be interested to see if any type of study has ever been done to look into that.

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post #10 of 12 Old 02-01-2019, 02:03 PM
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I might add. I've always looked at gravel/sand on a road as ball bearings on a hard surface. I feel an aggressive tire tread with large gaps when going over a gravel patch means there is less 'ball bearings' under said tire with some of the gravel now in a gap. And less chance of the tire rolling on the gravel ball bearings.
Sipes for water, wide grooves for sand.
Tread pattern is also there to make a tire look cool and get you to buy it.

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post #11 of 12 Old 02-01-2019, 07:42 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Islandboy View Post
I might add. I've always looked at gravel/sand on a road as ball bearings on a hard surface. I feel an aggressive tire tread with large gaps when going over a gravel patch means there is less 'ball bearings' under said tire with some of the gravel now in a gap. And less chance of the tire rolling on the gravel ball bearings.
Sipes for water, wide grooves for sand.
Tread pattern is also there to make a tire look cool and get you to buy it.
This is exactly my thinking. If you look at 4X4 mud tires, they are designed so that anything that can move, has an escape path and other parts of the tire can grip.

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post #12 of 12 Old 02-02-2019, 05:46 PM
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I think this debate over sipes on tires is a bit pointless. There is no tire in the world that will have grip on sandy pavement at full lean. The benefit of riding a sport tire is that you can do a track day on one and not melt it to pieces.

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