Tie down transport advice needed - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 22 Old 08-15-2019, 07:58 AM Thread Starter
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Tie down transport advice needed

i now have a dead 919.

Local dealer closed up shop about a year ago, and the nearest dealer that will even look at my 919 with its electrical problem before winter is ~70 miles away. Dealer can't pick up.

I have never had the need to trail a bike in all my years of riding. I do have 3 never used tie down straps with 1 rubber covered hook and 1 naked hook on each end. No ratchets, just strap pinch clamps.

I intend to rent a UHaul utility/motorcycle trailer. My never before used tie down straps look like they were designed for Harley sized bikes. Looking at the bike and my straps, I'm not sure where exactly I should be attaching the tie down straps. If I go with the rubberized hooks over the handlebars, it appears there may be strap interference with the turn signals. Hooks on the straps are too large to pass thru the openings above the stock fork brace. I'm also clueless as to where to attach the tie downs on the rear of the bike. Subframes with passenger pegs seems wrong.

The owner's manual only advice is to use tie down straps when transporting. No suggestions on how many straps and where to attach on the bike.

I've watched a few YouTubes and get the general idea, but, I've also seen the damage that improper tie down use can cause. I'd like to have a clue before I get the trailer.

I know I should place the bike in neutral (by feel, neutral light/gauges are dead), lower the side stand, protect hook/strap attachment areas with heavy cloth, and strap the bike down. Could use some advice on the details please.


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post #2 of 22 Old 08-15-2019, 08:29 AM
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What's worked for me in the past when I trailered from NC to NY was the uhaul motorcycle trailer, stuffed the front wheel in the chock and one tie down on each side of the handlebar, with the front fork compressed pretty good.

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post #3 of 22 Old 08-15-2019, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stamperman View Post
i now have a dead 919.

Local dealer closed up shop about a year ago, and the nearest dealer that will even look at my 919 with its electrical problem before winter is ~70 miles away. Dealer can't pick up.

I have never had the need to trail a bike in all my years of riding. I do have 3 never used tie down straps with 1 rubber covered hook and 1 naked hook on each end. No ratchets, just strap pinch clamps.

I intend to rent a UHaul utility/motorcycle trailer. My never before used tie down straps look like they were designed for Harley sized bikes. Looking at the bike and my straps, I'm not sure where exactly I should be attaching the tie down straps. If I go with the rubberized hooks over the handlebars, it appears there may be strap interference with the turn signals. Hooks on the straps are too large to pass thru the openings above the stock fork brace. I'm also clueless as to where to attach the tie downs on the rear of the bike. Subframes with passenger pegs seems wrong.

The owner's manual only advice is to use tie down straps when transporting. No suggestions on how many straps and where to attach on the bike.

I've watched a few YouTubes and get the general idea, but, I've also seen the damage that improper tie down use can cause. I'd like to have a clue before I get the trailer.

I know I should place the bike in neutral (by feel, neutral light/gauges are dead), lower the side stand, protect hook/strap attachment areas with heavy cloth, and strap the bike down. Could use some advice on the details please.
I trailer bikes quite frequently (Track bikes that aren't street legal) and have had to get creative many times. I wouldn't leave the side stand down, as you want the suspension absorbing bumps and the stand will transmit directly to the frame.

The general idea is two straps at the front as far out from the bike as you can get to help stabilize from side to side. You can use just the hook, or if you want loop the strap around the handlebar and run it back through the hook so you don't have the hard hook possibly rubbing/marring the handlebar. The turn signals are pretty flexible so unless the strap needs to run almost directly through where they are you should probably be able to get by. The uhaul trailer has a nice "V" that you can wedge the front tire into and if you pull the bike forward into that that's really all you need. The back end will bounce around a little and move side to side possibly but usually not enough to cause problems. When I've had multiple bikes on a trailer and don't want the back bouncing around then one strap on the rear is sufficient, just over the seat, or through the rear wheel is fine depending on what anchor points you have to work with.

If you were going to be doing this often I'd suggest getting some soft ties and give you some more insight but for a one time deal just make sure the front is strapped down well and pulled into the V of the trailer and you're basically good to go.
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post #4 of 22 Old 08-15-2019, 08:34 AM
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I donít have any tie down advice for you, sorry.
But is there a local non-honda specific shop near you that is trustworthy and could help you?
I have no local honda dealers near me but I found a great shop with tons of experience and good mechanics a few miles from me that I trust. Theyíve done several jobs for me and pick up for free.
Just suggesting a possibilty so you might not have to trailer the bike somewhere far.

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post #5 of 22 Old 08-15-2019, 08:53 AM
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Tie down transport advice needed

What exactly is the electrical problem? There are very few things that will take down a 919 electrical system completely. The number one issue is Ďidiot owner drilled into ECU by accident while installing tail tidy kití. Second most common issue is main fuse died from old age. The main fuse on the 919 is not in the underseat fuse box but in the starter relay IIRC.

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post #6 of 22 Old 08-15-2019, 09:07 AM
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One thing I should add, be careful of putting the straps over sharp edges as it could wear away at the straps over time, especially cheap straps

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post #7 of 22 Old 08-15-2019, 10:53 AM Thread Starter
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CB700S: Well, long story short, it began with a starter barely turning with a battery that's always on a trickle charger, with a tachometer failure during the starting attempt. Painful to watch the tach needle go 360 degrees then stay there. I pulled the battery that was showing 12.1 volts. Charged it for 10-15 minutes, put it back in, bike started per normal, tach dead. I rode the bike for an hour, everything was great, except the tach. Parked the bike, removed and trickle charged the battery. A week later, I put the battery back in (showing 12.4v), tried to start the bike and listened to a sickening sizzling sound somewhere under the seat that lasted several seconds and the gauges went dead. No response to key position and everything electrical is dead. I checked all the fuses in the bike including the badboy in the starter relay. They all looked good....not dark or stressed in anyway obvious to the eye. Of course I pulled them all and re-inserted. Nada.

I'm assuming the main fuse would be the 30 amp one. Anyway I check them all. Could see no *obvious* problems....insulation rubbed off, wires broken at connectors, etc. The electrical mods I've made to the bike were all carefully done 10 years ago without install related mishap: flasher for rear brake light, headlight modulator, dual horns driven by a relay off the battery. All the optional stuff was working before and after the tach failure, then sszzzzz.


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post #8 of 22 Old 08-15-2019, 11:03 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garyb900 View Post
I donít have any tie down advice for you, sorry.
But is there a local non-honda specific shop near you that is trustworthy and could help you?
I have no local honda dealers near me but I found a great shop with tons of experience and good mechanics a few miles from me that I trust. Theyíve done several jobs for me and pick up for free.
Just suggesting a possibilty so you might not have to trailer the bike somewhere far.
My experiences have been......mixed with independents. I had a great relationship with the dealer that was here. Even the Honda dealer that's 25 miles away said "electrical? won't touch it". I'm envious of your good fortune having the shop you do so close!


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post #9 of 22 Old 08-15-2019, 11:18 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badmoon692008 View Post
I trailer bikes quite frequently (Track bikes that aren't street legal) and have had to get creative many times. I wouldn't leave the side stand down, as you want the suspension absorbing bumps and the stand will transmit directly to the frame.

The general idea is two straps at the front as far out from the bike as you can get to help stabilize from side to side. You can use just the hook, or if you want loop the strap around the handlebar and run it back through the hook so you don't have the hard hook possibly rubbing/marring the handlebar. The turn signals are pretty flexible so unless the strap needs to run almost directly through where they are you should probably be able to get by. The uhaul trailer has a nice "V" that you can wedge the front tire into and if you pull the bike forward into that that's really all you need. The back end will bounce around a little and move side to side possibly but usually not enough to cause problems. When I've had multiple bikes on a trailer and don't want the back bouncing around then one strap on the rear is sufficient, just over the seat, or through the rear wheel is fine depending on what anchor points you have to work with.

If you were going to be doing this often I'd suggest getting some soft ties and give you some more insight but for a one time deal just make sure the front is strapped down well and pulled into the V of the trailer and you're basically good to go.
I'll place a towel around the handlebar then use the rubber covered hooks for the 2 handlebar tie downs. The rubber covering looks substantial, and they've never been used. Hopefully that will take care of the front tie downs. I guess some compression of the front suspension is ok? I'd hate to screw up my fork seals....


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post #10 of 22 Old 08-15-2019, 11:21 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanktm View Post
One thing I should add, be careful of putting the straps over sharp edges as it could wear away at the straps over time, especially cheap straps

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Good advice. Hoping this will be my first, and last, time to do this!


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post #11 of 22 Old 08-15-2019, 06:36 PM
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The first thing I would do is replace the battery with a new one. I would check the ground and battery cables.

I had a bike with a battery cable that was rotted inside. It wouldn't pass the amps needed to properly start the bike. You can run a simple test... Create the condition where the starter won't crank the bike, then jump it with jumper cables from a car battery, start at the battery and end with a direct connection to the starter.

You might also just take apart the starter switch and clean it. The engine shut off is right there, so clean that as well.

My bike just overheated this week, it wouldn't start and the battery was so weak after a few tries that I had to charge it over night.

The battery was only 1.5 years old and I'm looking at a replacement after getting some 5 years out of the last one.

Point: you can save a lot of time and money by just replacing a few parts.

One other point: you should get ratcheting straps, it's very hard to apply pressure without them.

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post #12 of 22 Old 08-16-2019, 12:04 AM
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You have to use ratcheting straps to properly tie down the bike, IMHO. Pics below are clickable for higher resolution/larger versions.

Here is a picture of how to tie down a 919 to a trailer. You can run the ratchet straps around the lower triple tree and fork tubes and crank down on them to compress the front fork. Get it down at least an inch or two - this will give the bike enough tension to hold it into the chock or the back of the truck bed. This will hold the bike upright and be the primary means the bike is held in the trailer. You can then attach regular clamping straps to the rearsets or the rear seat handle - the purpose of these is not to hold the bike in the trailer but to keep the rear end of the bike sliding around while you drive. You just pull these tight, don't try to crank down on them - and they will be fine. All this is doing is keeping the bike's arse from sliding around, not keeping the bike upright in the truck or trailer.



IMG_3595


As shown above and below, you can also wrap or attach the rear straps to the rear wheel. This is an older technique from when bikes didn't have rear grab handles or suitable rear footpeg mounts, etc.


IMG_3597

If you don't like or can't access the lower triple tree area, you can do this with almost any bike with handlebars (as opposed to clip-ons like full-on sportbikes have) if your ratchet straps are long enough or you have handlebar loops:


IMG_8576

Or on an older bike:

IMG_3907


IMG_3906

Note the compressed front suspension. This provides tension against the straps, which will be the main things keeping the bike upright and in the truck or trailer.


IMG_2479

Don't pinch any wires or hoses under the straps or handlebar loops, this picture was with the straps slightly loose so there's not going to be any damage.


IMG_2483


This old GS was loaded without the rear end being tied in place because there were totes of parts and such that were tied down around it and kept the end from sliding.


If you don't have rear eyelets, hooks or other anchors on the trailer or truck bed, you can do this - attach the rear straps to the front tiedowns and the rearset frame. Again, this is not intended to hold the bike in the transport but simply to keep the bike's rear end from sliding around.


IMG_8573


Edit: That said, you'd be better off troubleshooting the bike yourself with a multimeter. That zapping noise under the seat was probably just an underpowered relay panicking due to the insufficient power. They make that kind of noise when they make and break a connection rapidly. Take your multimeter and the service manual wiring diagram and work your way from the battery out to see where power is going or not.
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post #13 of 22 Old 08-16-2019, 03:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stamperman View Post
My experiences have been......mixed with independents. I had a great relationship with the dealer that was here. Even the Honda dealer that's 25 miles away said "electrical? won't touch it". I'm envious of your good fortune having the shop you do so close!
That's too bad. I hope you get it fixed. Hopefully it's nothing bad. I know electrical gremlins can be a PITA. Good luck.

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post #14 of 22 Old 08-16-2019, 09:29 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CB700S View Post
You have to use ratcheting straps to properly tie down the bike, IMHO. Pics below are clickable for higher resolution/larger versions.

Here is a picture of how to tie down a 919 to a trailer. You can run the ratchet straps around the lower triple tree and fork tubes and crank down on them to compress the front fork. Get it down at least an inch or two - this will give the bike enough tension to hold it into the chock or the back of the truck bed. This will hold the bike upright and be the primary means the bike is held in the trailer. You can then attach regular clamping straps to the rearsets or the rear seat handle - the purpose of these is not to hold the bike in the trailer but to keep the rear end of the bike sliding around while you drive. You just pull these tight, don't try to crank down on them - and they will be fine. All this is doing is keeping the bike's arse from sliding around, not keeping the bike upright in the truck or trailer.



IMG_3595


As shown above and below, you can also wrap or attach the rear straps to the rear wheel. This is an older technique from when bikes didn't have rear grab handles or suitable rear footpeg mounts, etc.


IMG_3597

If you don't like or can't access the lower triple tree area, you can do this with almost any bike with handlebars (as opposed to clip-ons like full-on sportbikes have) if your ratchet straps are long enough or you have handlebar loops:


IMG_8576

Or on an older bike:

IMG_3907


IMG_3906

Note the compressed front suspension. This provides tension against the straps, which will be the main things keeping the bike upright and in the truck or trailer.


IMG_2479

Don't pinch any wires or hoses under the straps or handlebar loops, this picture was with the straps slightly loose so there's not going to be any damage.


IMG_2483


This old GS was loaded without the rear end being tied in place because there were totes of parts and such that were tied down around it and kept the end from sliding.


If you don't have rear eyelets, hooks or other anchors on the trailer or truck bed, you can do this - attach the rear straps to the front tiedowns and the rearset frame. Again, this is not intended to hold the bike in the transport but simply to keep the bike's rear end from sliding around.


IMG_8573


Edit: That said, you'd be better off troubleshooting the bike yourself with a multimeter. That zapping noise under the seat was probably just an underpowered relay panicking due to the insufficient power. They make that kind of noise when they make and break a connection rapidly. Take your multimeter and the service manual wiring diagram and work your way from the battery out to see where power is going or not.
CB700S, as they say one picture is worth 1,000 words! Thanks for posting these up!

I have stock front turn signals which may or may not be problematic with the handlebar attachment point....if it is, then hopefully the lower triple clamp area will work. The old design tie downs I own have straps with closed ends around the hardware. The opening at the triple clamp is too small to pass the hooks through. I could try spreading the S hook a little to free one end of the strap that would then pass thru the opening, then reattach the strap to the hook once passed thru the triple clamp; or cut the stitched double thickness end off of the strap so it will pass thru the spring loaded clamp.

Or, buy some ratchet tie downs that would work better anyway. I'm starting to figure out that the ancient tie downs I have are probably the cause for most of my concerns.

The bike trailer looks like a great piece of gear.


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post #15 of 22 Old 08-16-2019, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stamperman View Post
Or, buy some ratchet tie downs that would work better anyway. I'm starting to figure out that the ancient tie downs I have are probably the cause for most of my concerns.
Um, dude, you CAN'T safely transport a bike over 300lbs (at best!) with only that style of strap you have. The 919 is 428lbs or so. The 919 will pull your strap right out of the clamp and then it's screwed. And then someone behind you will receive a motorcycle in the face.

GO BUY PROPER RATCHET STRAPS. THEY ARE CHEAP AND SOLD AT EVERY WALMART, LOWES, HOME DEPOT, ETC. DO NOT BE A SUPERCHEAP IDIOT THAT ENDANGERS OTHER ROAD USERS!!!

Quote:
The bike trailer looks like a great piece of gear.
It is, but it's not mine. It is the property of a good friend of mine; the pics are from the night after I had a bad wreck (hit by two cars on the highway, knocked out, woke up in the ER) when I was lucky enough to get him to help retrieve my 919 from the Dallas Police impound yard - it actually still ran just fine and rolled itself up into the trailer. I figured it would, being a Honda, and I didn't want to leave it in the pound for storage fees to rack up, accidental damage to happen to it, parts getting stolen off it, getting crapped on by the weather in general, the impound sticker bonding ever more permanently with it, etc. I enlisted my friend and went and got it the night after the crash - it was physically painful for me, but I think it was worth it.

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post #16 of 22 Old 08-16-2019, 05:14 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CB700S View Post
Um, dude, you CAN'T safely transport a bike over 300lbs (at best!) with only that style of strap you have. The 919 is 428lbs or so. The 919 will pull your strap right out of the clamp and then it's screwed. And then someone behind you will receive a motorcycle in the face.

GO BUY PROPER RATCHET STRAPS. THEY ARE CHEAP AND SOLD AT EVERY WALMART, LOWES, HOME DEPOT, ETC. DO NOT BE A SUPERCHEAP IDIOT THAT ENDANGERS OTHER ROAD USERS!!!



It is, but it's not mine. It is the property of a good friend of mine; the pics are from the night after I had a bad wreck (hit by two cars on the highway, knocked out, woke up in the ER) when I was lucky enough to get him to help retrieve my 919 from the Dallas Police impound yard - it actually still ran just fine and rolled itself up into the trailer. I figured it would, being a Honda, and I didn't want to leave it in the pound for storage fees to rack up, accidental damage to happen to it, parts getting stolen off it, getting crapped on by the weather in general, the impound sticker bonding ever more permanently with it, etc. I enlisted my friend and went and got it the night after the crash - it was physically painful for me, but I think it was worth it.
Re: ratchet straps, message received.

As for the wreck. Whoa. I've stepped off at over 70 per, but have only seen the inside of ER's as an employee.
Ain't it great to have friends when you need 'em?
And yeah, I hear ya about your bike in the impound.....absolutely got to look out for your baby.
Priorities


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post #17 of 22 Old 08-16-2019, 05:51 PM
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Keep in mind that even ratchet straps have different weight ratings and can be unsuitable. These are the cheapest ones Walmart offers, with a standard load capacity of just 300lbs and a breaking load of 900. The first number is the one you want to pay attention to.


https://www.walmart.com/ip/Hyper-Tou...Pack/147010576


So those are not suitable given that the 919 is 428lbs by itself. These would be better, having a 500lb working load and a 1500lb breaking load, but if possible you'd want some additional margin.


https://www.walmart.com/ip/SmartStra...-Pack/14493274


These would be ideal - they have an 1100lb working load limit and a 3300lb break load. Note that there's not much of a price difference, either.


https://www.walmart.com/ip/Everest-E...-Pack/24471429


Now, here's the nasty little secret about load securing devices like these - they are typically rated *by the package set* unless otherwise stated. A package of four straps saying the working load is 1000lbs means that you need to use all four to get that number and that each strap is only rated for 250lbs working load. That last set with the 1100lb working load limit only has two straps, which means that each strap is rated for 550lbs - which is the minimum you want. As with any gear that elevates or holds a vehicle like ramps or jackstands, you want to buy straps that can each hold the entire weight of the bike by itself - because some day it might very well have to, and your or someone else's life may be in the balance.


Don't skimp on safety.

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post #18 of 22 Old 08-17-2019, 06:01 PM
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This is my opinion, from 18 years of strappimg down motorcycles.

If you buy tie down straps at Wally World, and your bike ends up on its side, you got what you paid for. Buy a motorcycle specific strap from one of the on line stores. Ancra is what I use. I don't like the ratchet straps. They're just one more thing to go wrong. If you like them, ok with me. But I've never had a bike fall over with the simpler ones. But, I tie the loose end down, also.

I have a couple sets of the strap "loops". I don't like having a metal hook on my bikes. I like the Canyon Dancer handle bar attachment. Some guys don't like the Canyon Dancer. I've never had any problems with either of the 2 that I have.

I always have 4 straps per street bike. You can't be too careful. They all have to be pulling in the same direction. Never have straps pulling both ways.
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post #19 of 22 Old 08-18-2019, 04:55 AM
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I always have 4 straps per street bike. You can't be too careful.
Agreed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper-x View Post
They all have to be pulling in the same direction. Never have straps pulling both ways.
Disagree - two at the back pulling back and down, to take the bounce out of the rear suspension, snugged down after the front ones are in place - a reliable system [for me] in use for 40 years or so. YMMV.
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post #20 of 22 Old 08-18-2019, 05:12 PM
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What works, works. But having straps pulling in opposite directions, working against each other, opens up the possibility of the straps loosening as the bike rocks. All straps pulling in one direction always made more sence to me. I don't what there is to be gained by pulling the bike away from the chock. But again, what works, works.

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post #21 of 22 Old 08-18-2019, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Sniper-x View Post
What works, works. But having straps pulling in opposite directions, working against each other, opens up the possibility of the straps loosening as the bike rocks. All straps pulling in one direction always made more sence to me. I don't what there is to be gained by pulling the bike away from the chock. But again, what works, works.
Agreed that what works, works. If you see the rear straps as being more a downward [as opposed to rearward] force, perhaps that will help - the front straps pull mightily towards the chock; the rear ones pull down, to take the bounce out of the suspension and immobilise the bike a little more. And a couple of half-hitches thrown in the leftover of the front straps reduce the likelihood of anything easing out over the duration of the trip.

K1w1Boy is online now  
post #22 of 22 Old 08-19-2019, 06:12 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2013
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I just had my bike towed because it overheated. A pickup showed up with a lift/slide like I've never seen before. He put ALL the straps towards the front, all the pull was against the front forks.

I thought it was strange, but he was a pro and the life was made for motorcycles.

KarlJay is offline  
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