The gix is sick...need some help - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 51 Old 05-26-2013, 07:25 PM Thread Starter
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The gix is sick...need some help

There is an issue developing with my bike, I'm not sure really how to describe it but here goes

When I roll the throttle on quickly from mid to high range it boggs or cuts out real bad almost like its out of gas(yes there's gas in it) it doesn't matter if I'm going slow or at highway speed if the rpms are in that range when I hit it it just bogs out like there's no fuel

If I let off and slowly roll it on it picks right up and takes off, once I get it up higher it has no problems and also no problems on the low end

I can't seem to figure out why it's doing this, I've been told that the plugs are fouled but I just changed them about a month ago and wouldn't that create a "miss" even on the low end? ..the bike starts and idles fine

Could it be the fuel pump? Or a pressure regulator?

It seems to be getting worse and I don't want to lose my ride so early in the season, can anyone help shed some light on this?

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post #2 of 51 Old 05-26-2013, 09:02 PM
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I always thought that is normal with a fi bike and I believe its not recommended even in the owners/service manual...??

Not to mention you should be smooth on your throttle and not chop it per keith code :-)

I may not have a lot to say but it doesn't mean I don't listen.
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post #3 of 51 Old 05-26-2013, 09:19 PM Thread Starter
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Well the first time I noticed it was an accidental "chop" but it has progressed to when I got to pass the cagers the bike is choking and stuttering as it accels

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post #4 of 51 Old 05-26-2013, 10:23 PM
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you should be able to snap the throttle as quick as you possibly can and have it respond on any normal FI'd machine so long as your not lugging it wherein any motor wont be able to gobble that much air at such slow rpms.... hell even a properly tuned carubrated bike with an accelerator pump you can wack the throttle as quick as you possibly can and it will take off (case and point my crf250x, rolling in first idiling and slam and it just takes off)

EITHER way... FPR, fuel pump or TPS.

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post #5 of 51 Old 05-27-2013, 04:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by velodesign View Post
I always thought that is normal with a fi bike and I believe its not recommended even in the owners/service manual...??

Not to mention you should be smooth on your throttle and not chop it per keith code :-)
your kidding right

dont need a bike to ride the fast lane
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post #6 of 51 Old 05-27-2013, 05:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nd4spdbh View Post
... FPR, fuel pump or TPS.
Gotta be one of these.

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post #7 of 51 Old 05-27-2013, 05:33 AM
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Could it be related to the "rain covers" over your ram air inlet? Maybe it starved for air under high load.

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post #8 of 51 Old 05-27-2013, 05:46 AM Thread Starter
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Damnit! It's pouring outside, hope the ol girl diesnt die on me today

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post #9 of 51 Old 05-27-2013, 07:33 AM
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Maybe I'm confused with my old carbd cb750 and the 919. Nevermind then, must've read that somewhere else and read it wrong.

I may not have a lot to say but it doesn't mean I don't listen.
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post #10 of 51 Old 05-27-2013, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by velodesign View Post
Maybe I'm confused with my old carbd cb750 and the 919. Nevermind then, must've read that somewhere else and read it wrong.
ya i doubt the cb 750 had carbs with accelerator pumps... current day high performance bikes with carbs have AP's which are literally squirt guns that shoot a stream of fuel down the intakes throat when the throttle is wacked open fast.

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post #11 of 51 Old 05-27-2013, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by velodesign View Post
Maybe I'm confused with my old carbd cb750 and the 919. Nevermind then, must've read that somewhere else and read it wrong.
I have some knowledge of cb750s.
F2s & F3s had accelerator pumps.
F1s didn't.
Most Ks didn't.
SOHC Ks didn't get the accelerator pumps until K7 in 2007, the same year the pipes changed dramatically and rear wheel went to 17 from 18.
There was also front end geometry changes after K6.

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post #12 of 51 Old 05-27-2013, 05:54 PM
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^and there we go. haha

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post #13 of 51 Old 05-27-2013, 05:55 PM
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either way whiplash... i would say pull the vacuum line on the FPR. cap the tbody side and run with the open FPR vacuum, this will make for a full time highest fuel rail pressure and see if that changes things.

Now someone step in and say if this is a bad idea.

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post #14 of 51 Old 05-27-2013, 06:29 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nd4spdbh View Post
either way whiplash... i would say pull the vacuum line on the FPR. cap the tbody side and run with the open FPR vacuum, this will make for a full time highest fuel rail pressure and see if that changes things.

Now someone step in and say if this is a bad idea.
Whoa! Do what!? Ok before this goes any farther I think I found the problem...

I lifted the tank just far enough to get the air box cover off yet still run it, fired the ol girl up and watched to see if the secondary throttle plates would open when see warmed up and guess what? Nope they didn't open...sooooooo...I stuck my finger down her throat and held them open

**note** if you ever do this maneuver I would advise caution! That little servo that moves the plates is alot stronger than I though it would be!!**

While holding them open I brought it to 1/2 throttle then gave it a quick stab and what do ya know no bogging, so I'm wondering why aren't they opening?? They cycle as they should when powered up so what's up?......Think whip! Think!...it was at this point I had somewhat of a vision! The picture is was seeing was hazy but it was a radiator and a thermo-sensor...AH HA!!!

I spring to the other side of the downed machine and unplug the thermo-sensor then fired er up and low a behold the sec. plates open as the throttle does! So I repeat the 1/2 throttle stab and when I stabbed it then sec. plates opened almost fully where as before they would barely move...

See when I changed the radiator awhile back to the ZX radiator the GSXR thermo wouldn't fit! Grrrr so in typical whip fashion I proceed to grind the shit out of it and rethread it to fit my new adapter(feeling foolish now ) well in doing this I allowed the inner sensor part to ground out to the radiator sending the ECU into a tail spin, when I unplugged it the ECU jumped to the default allowing the plates to open(not properly) but better than grounding out

Well.....lesson learned

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post #15 of 51 Old 05-27-2013, 06:42 PM
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interesting. what is the point of the secondary throttle plates? are we talking like two sets of butterflys? what is their purpose?

Either way glad you solved your issue, what is their typical operating cycle? is it to choke the bike when its cold?

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post #16 of 51 Old 05-27-2013, 06:51 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nd4spdbh View Post
interesting. what is the point of the secondary throttle plates? are we talking like two sets of butterflys? what is their purpose?

Either way glad you solved your issue, what is their typical operating cycle? is it to choke the bike when its cold?
To me the look like what would be a choke, and I'm thinkin that's there intended use

I'm tryin to get a video up now
Attached Images
File Type: jpg image-2229132000.jpg (33.1 KB, 20 views)

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post #17 of 51 Old 05-27-2013, 07:00 PM Thread Starter
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Ok, hopefully YouTube is done processing it


http://youtu.be/PhrMtLDB0kc

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post #18 of 51 Old 05-27-2013, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post

I have some knowledge of cb750s.
F2s & F3s had accelerator pumps.
F1s didn't.
Most Ks didn't.
SOHC Ks didn't get the accelerator pumps until K7 in 2007, the same year the pipes changed dramatically and rear wheel went to 17 from 18.
There was also front end geometry changes after K6.
I had a 80 cb750k. No accel pump that im aware of, and didnt even get to run my keihn or mikuni? cv's as i sold my cb823 project to fund my marriage. Again, im glad you got it running but someone please tell me its not a good idea to whack from wot to idle then back up again. This must be in my head from somewhere?

I may not have a lot to say but it doesn't mean I don't listen.
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post #19 of 51 Old 05-27-2013, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by velodesign View Post
I had a 80 cb750k. No accel pump that im aware of, and didnt even get to run my keihn or mikuni? cv's as i sold my cb823 project to fund my marriage. Again, im glad you got it running but someone please tell me its not a good idea to whack from wot to idle then back up again. This must be in my head from somewhere?
I'm pretty sure you are very corrrect.
The 80 was a twin cam 4 valve I think, and would have had CVs and no accel pump.
I lost interest in the CB after the end of SOHCs.
Would have loved to have gotten a CB 1100F, that's an F and not a K.

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post #20 of 51 Old 05-27-2013, 08:26 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by velodesign View Post
Again, im glad you got it running but someone please tell me its not a good idea to whack from wot to idle then back up again. This must be in my head from somewhere?
Thanks I just hope my assumption is true

As for "whacking" the throttle...if the bike won't give me the power I want/need when I ask for it something is wrong...no matter how I ask for it

When ever I'm adjusting carbs (dirt or street) I adjust until I can stab it from an idle and there's no bog/choke, don't think it really hurts anything unless ya keep doing it on the high end

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post #21 of 51 Old 05-28-2013, 10:53 AM
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I'm confused it looked like standard single butterfly's per throttle body. Are you saying the outer throttle bodies or what?

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post #22 of 51 Old 05-28-2013, 02:11 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nd4spdbh View Post
I'm confused it looked like standard single butterfly's per throttle body. Are you saying the outer throttle bodies or what?
Those ones are controlled by the tps servo, the actual throttle plates that have the cable running to the twist throttle are under those plates, I'll see if I can get a pic

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post #23 of 51 Old 05-28-2013, 02:36 PM Thread Starter
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image-3595743895.jpg

Here you can see both plates

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post #24 of 51 Old 05-28-2013, 03:41 PM
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I've got an idea:

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post #25 of 51 Old 05-28-2013, 04:05 PM
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googlit shhh... im just trying to learn.

That is awefully weird IMO to have to sets of plates like that... would seem like it would hinder performance... IMO i would say unscrew the plates off the shaft so they cant ever get in the way.

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post #26 of 51 Old 05-28-2013, 04:40 PM
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That is awefully weird IMO to have to sets of plates like that... would seem like it would hinder performance... IMO i would say unscrew the plates off the shaft so they cant ever get in the way.
Nah, its actually a pretty common design and was utilized where the need for low end throttle response was precise and consistent from zero (or near zero) throttle position to WOT in a very short period of time.

I suspect removing the plates would affect how the low end runs in certain conditions as well as acceleration and on the high end in certain conditions.

The problem was identified outside of the actual plates themselves, leave them be or you risk causing more problems in changing how airflow is introduced in varying conditions.

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post #27 of 51 Old 05-28-2013, 04:57 PM
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I always took off those stupid servo motors and let it run wide open and put a TRE (Timing retard eliminator) on it.

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post #28 of 51 Old 05-28-2013, 05:19 PM
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Nah, its actually a pretty common design and was utilized where the need for low end throttle response was precise and consistent from zero (or near zero) throttle position to WOT in a very short period of time.

I suspect removing the plates would affect how the low end runs in certain conditions as well as acceleration and on the high end in certain conditions.

The problem was identified outside of the actual plates themselves, leave them be or you risk causing more problems in changing how airflow is introduced in varying conditions.
i could see how somehow it could keep air velocities up at low throttle openings... but beyond that i dont see how it could reall help if you just romped on it... would seem like it would choke it up... but hey i aint a pencil pusher from japan... they know their shit and put it there for a reason.

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post #29 of 51 Old 05-28-2013, 05:37 PM
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i could see how somehow it could keep air velocities up at low throttle openings... but beyond that i dont see how it could really help if you just romped on it... would seem like it would choke it up... but hey i aint a pencil pusher from japan... they know their shit and put it there for a reason.
+1. Not just about air velocities, it also has to do with how turbulent the air is as it enters the throttle body and/or combustion chamber. Honda sure likes to make their design very sensitive to changes to these factors. Some Honda motorcycles simply will not run right unless you get the air velocity/turbulent exactly the same as stock regardless of intake mods.

Suzuki and Yamaha apply the same general principle but no where near as rigid as Honda it seems.

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post #30 of 51 Old 05-28-2013, 05:43 PM
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Nothing a tune or trying different maps won't fix if you remove the servo. I've had 4 different GSXRs removing it is a mod like the 9ers flapper mod

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post #31 of 51 Old 05-28-2013, 05:46 PM
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Here you can see both plates
Not sure if it just my iPad's resolution but it looks like you got an egg yolk stuck in there. Did your problems start right around Easter?

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post #32 of 51 Old 05-28-2013, 06:22 PM Thread Starter
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Pulled the tank and pump! Filter is full of dryer lint, could that be the problem?

Pulled the plugs and they were white not brown

So sorry goog, she's not done yet

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post #33 of 51 Old 05-28-2013, 09:03 PM Thread Starter
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BOMB!!!!! The land rocket is back!!!! Funny how it runs better when it can actually get fuel


Hey goog now that you have a fighter too j/k maybe we can hit a fighter track day

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post #34 of 51 Old 05-28-2013, 10:41 PM
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Damn, and I thought you were gonna go moto shopping. Didn't wanna be an ass while you were troubleshooting but I was gonna say your simplest fix would be a Honda.... Hahaha

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post #35 of 51 Old 05-28-2013, 11:47 PM
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^either that or stop buying basket cases from the start haha.

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post #36 of 51 Old 05-29-2013, 12:24 PM Thread Starter
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^either that or stop buying basket cases from the start haha.
What's the fun in that?^^

Anyone can go out and pay fer a fancy new bike, I like to make things better, fix stuff or make something out of nothing...my mom calls it "makin a silk purse out of a sows ear"

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post #37 of 51 Old 05-29-2013, 12:28 PM
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Good thing you have a suzuki then.

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post #38 of 51 Old 05-29-2013, 12:32 PM Thread Starter
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The secondary plates will stay as is, the thing has plenty of get up and go for me as long as I can keep the fuel flowing to it

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post #39 of 51 Old 05-31-2013, 07:43 PM Thread Starter
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First trip to work tomorrow, we'll see how she runs

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post #40 of 51 Old 05-31-2013, 07:51 PM Thread Starter
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Hope it doesn't rain

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