Testing the voltage regulator/rectifier - Wrist Twisters
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 36 Old 10-29-2013, 11:37 AM Thread Starter
Yo no s nada
 
spyke1019's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: North Florida
Posts: 976
Rep Power: 1
 
Testing the voltage regulator/rectifier

2000 Honda Shadow750 Ace Deluxe(750CD2)
OK so my battery does not charge, I have tested the stator and it is fine. I get correct readings between all three pins and the readings increase with the throttle.

How do I check the R/R, I have the manual but it is not a help in checking the R/R, just changing it out.

spyke1019 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 36 Old 10-29-2013, 11:56 AM Thread Starter
Yo no s nada
 
spyke1019's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: North Florida
Posts: 976
Rep Power: 1
 
Followin this diagram I should be getting a voltage reading between the red/white cable and the green cable(coming out of the r/r) on my multimeter correct?
Attachment 36738
Attached Images
File Type: jpg wiring diagram 750 ace.jpg (249.0 KB, 16 views)

spyke1019 is offline  
post #3 of 36 Old 10-29-2013, 12:54 PM
Burn-em Upus Asphaltus
 
rickard919's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 3,802
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Donation 
Total Awards: 1

I had done the same thing a few years back on a CBR 900RR. New battery and I tested the stator. Everything checked out. Battery would still die after about 30 miles. Replaced the reg./rect. to no avail. Turns out it was the stator. I would remove the cover and check it for burning.

Spoiler:

rickard919 is offline  
 
post #4 of 36 Old 10-29-2013, 01:12 PM Thread Starter
Yo no s nada
 
spyke1019's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: North Florida
Posts: 976
Rep Power: 1
 
That sucks, I really didn't want to pull that cover off.

spyke1019 is offline  
post #5 of 36 Old 10-29-2013, 01:51 PM
Burn-em Upus Asphaltus
 
rickard919's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 3,802
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Donation 
Total Awards: 1

Not sure about the shadow but some models don't even need a new gasket afterwards. Open it up, inspect and close it back up if it looks good. Even if you need a gasket, it's way cheaper than a R/R.

Spoiler:

rickard919 is offline  
post #6 of 36 Old 10-29-2013, 02:42 PM Thread Starter
Yo no s nada
 
spyke1019's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: North Florida
Posts: 976
Rep Power: 1
 
I just tested the battery and I'm getting 25.9V, I don't think that's normal

spyke1019 is offline  
post #7 of 36 Old 10-29-2013, 03:04 PM
rmb
Let's go!
 
rmb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sussex Couty NJ
Posts: 7,655
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Wrist Twisters Event Attendance 
Total Awards: 9

Quote:
Originally Posted by spyke1019 View Post
I just tested the battery and I'm getting 25.9V, I don't think that's normal
Yea, not really normal.... Is that with the bike running? Do you have your meter set to DC voltage?

rmb is offline  
post #8 of 36 Old 10-29-2013, 04:40 PM Thread Starter
Yo no s nada
 
spyke1019's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: North Florida
Posts: 976
Rep Power: 1
 
That's off, running it goes up to 26.8v. I'm not 100% on the setting, I'll take a pic when I get home, just left the gym.

spyke1019 is offline  
post #9 of 36 Old 10-29-2013, 04:57 PM Thread Starter
Yo no s nada
 
spyke1019's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: North Florida
Posts: 976
Rep Power: 1
 
This is the setting I am using, is it correct?

ForumRunner_20131029_195636.jpg

spyke1019 is offline  
post #10 of 36 Old 10-29-2013, 04:59 PM
Tirone Choolaces
 
marylandmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 11,148
Rep Power: 1
 
Garage

Awards Showcase
Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Donation Donation 
Total Awards: 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by spyke1019 View Post
This is the setting I am using, is it correct?

Attachment 36762

Nope, should be set on the 20V DC setting. It's probably set up for measuring house voltage.

marylandmike is online now  
post #11 of 36 Old 10-29-2013, 05:02 PM Thread Starter
Yo no s nada
 
spyke1019's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: North Florida
Posts: 976
Rep Power: 1
 
Ok that's the setting I was using to measure the stator. I wasn't sure about it for checking the battery

spyke1019 is offline  
post #12 of 36 Old 10-29-2013, 05:04 PM Thread Starter
Yo no s nada
 
spyke1019's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: North Florida
Posts: 976
Rep Power: 1
 
Should it be set here?

ForumRunner_20131029_200357.png

spyke1019 is offline  
post #13 of 36 Old 10-29-2013, 05:07 PM
Tirone Choolaces
 
marylandmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 11,148
Rep Power: 1
 
Garage

Awards Showcase
Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Donation Donation 
Total Awards: 3

Yep that's right for measuring the DC voltage at the battery.

marylandmike is online now  
post #14 of 36 Old 10-29-2013, 05:13 PM Thread Starter
Yo no s nada
 
spyke1019's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: North Florida
Posts: 976
Rep Power: 1
 
Okay so I fix the setting and I got 13.2 with the bike off. when I started it up it went down to 10.9 with throttle. When I turned the bike off again and check with ignition off it went down to 12.1.

spyke1019 is offline  
post #15 of 36 Old 10-29-2013, 05:27 PM
Tirone Choolaces
 
marylandmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 11,148
Rep Power: 1
 
Garage

Awards Showcase
Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Donation Donation 
Total Awards: 3

Definitely not right. The voltage with throttle should go up to somewhere between your battery voltage with the bike off and 15V or so.

Did the battery start the bike easily? If so I would suspect the stator or regulator/ rectifier

marylandmike is online now  
post #16 of 36 Old 10-29-2013, 05:39 PM Thread Starter
Yo no s nada
 
spyke1019's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: North Florida
Posts: 976
Rep Power: 1
 
I just took it off the charger. It died on my way to work yesterday, I noticed that the headlight does not get brighter when I downshift also,

spyke1019 is offline  
post #17 of 36 Old 10-29-2013, 05:46 PM
Old, Bold rider
 
robtharalson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Aurora, Colorado
Posts: 2,384
Rep Power: 1
 
Garage

Awards Showcase
Donation Veteran Community Leadership 
Total Awards: 3

The next test is to measure the resistance of the stator windings. To do this set the meter on the lowest resistance setting, unplug the three pin heavy gauge connector between the stator and the regulator / rectifier, and check the continuity of the three pins to each other and to ground. It should be a quite low reading between the pins, no more than 15 ohms or so and relatively equal, and no continuity at all to ground (use the 2,000 ohm scale for this check). If the readings are substantially different or it shows any resistance to ground the stator is bad and will have to be replaced. Otherwise the R/R is probably the problem. Of course check all connectors for burning or other evidence of distress.

Rob

robtharalson is online now  
post #18 of 36 Old 10-29-2013, 05:49 PM Thread Starter
Yo no s nada
 
spyke1019's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: North Florida
Posts: 976
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by robtharalson View Post
The next test is to measure the resistance of the stator windings. To do this set the meter on the lowest resistance setting, unplug the three pin heavy gauge connector between the stator and the regulator / rectifier, and check the continuity of the three pins to each other and to ground. It should be a quite low reading between the pins, no more than 15 ohms or so and relatively equal, and no continuity at all to ground (use the 2,000 ohm scale for this check). If the readings are substantially different or it shows any resistance to ground the stator is bad and will have to be replaced. Otherwise the R/R is probably the problem. Of course check all connectors for burning or other evidence of distress.

Rob
I already did this exact thing, the three were reading between 12.2 to 13.9 at idle. Got up to 35.9 with throttle. No continuity.

spyke1019 is offline  
post #19 of 36 Old 10-29-2013, 05:51 PM Thread Starter
Yo no s nada
 
spyke1019's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: North Florida
Posts: 976
Rep Power: 1
 
But I had it set up like the first picture. Is that ok?

spyke1019 is offline  
post #20 of 36 Old 10-29-2013, 05:54 PM
Tirone Choolaces
 
marylandmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 11,148
Rep Power: 1
 
Garage

Awards Showcase
Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Donation Donation 
Total Awards: 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by spyke1019 View Post
I already did this exact thing, the three were reading between 12.2 to 13.9 at idle. Got up to 35.9 with throttle. No continuity.
The readings that Rob is talking about is without the bike running. Just checking the resistance of the stator coils. Use the lowest setting in the gray section (lower left) on your meter.

marylandmike is online now  
post #21 of 36 Old 10-29-2013, 06:51 PM Thread Starter
Yo no s nada
 
spyke1019's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: North Florida
Posts: 976
Rep Power: 1
 
Using the lowest setting in grey on my meter for 200 ohms I got a 1.2 across the board. And no continuity on all three pens. Ignition was off.

spyke1019 is offline  
post #22 of 36 Old 10-29-2013, 06:53 PM Thread Starter
Yo no s nada
 
spyke1019's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: North Florida
Posts: 976
Rep Power: 1
 
I cleaned the leads and got a 00.1 all the way across

spyke1019 is offline  
post #23 of 36 Old 10-29-2013, 07:04 PM
Tirone Choolaces
 
marylandmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 11,148
Rep Power: 1
 
Garage

Awards Showcase
Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Donation Donation 
Total Awards: 3

Sounds like the readings indicate that your stator is OK. Just to make sure, I would get your battery load tested.

marylandmike is online now  
post #24 of 36 Old 10-29-2013, 07:07 PM Thread Starter
Yo no s nada
 
spyke1019's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: North Florida
Posts: 976
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marylandmike View Post
Sounds like the readings indicate that your stator is OK. Just to make sure, I would get your battery load tested.
You mean a leak down test?

Edit: ok LOAD test, taking it off and to the auto parts store, correct?

spyke1019 is offline  
post #25 of 36 Old 10-29-2013, 07:17 PM
Tirone Choolaces
 
marylandmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 11,148
Rep Power: 1
 
Garage

Awards Showcase
Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Donation Donation 
Total Awards: 3

Most auto parts stores will do it for free. It measures how low the voltage drops when a load is put on it. You can also do it with the battery on the bike and measure how low the voltage drops when you start the bike, but you would need a meter with would store the max and min readings. With a digital meter it would be really hard to do by just watching the numbers.

marylandmike is online now  
post #26 of 36 Old 10-29-2013, 07:40 PM Thread Starter
Yo no s nada
 
spyke1019's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: North Florida
Posts: 976
Rep Power: 1
 
I don't think it's the battery. While I rode it, the headlight did not get brighter when I downshift. It normally does.

spyke1019 is offline  
post #27 of 36 Old 10-30-2013, 05:06 AM
Why's everything on fire?
 
CB700S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Dallas
Posts: 2,326
Rep Power: 1
 
Garage
Is this the small R/R, about the size of a matchbox?

1986 Honda Nighthawk 700S
2002 Honda 919
CB700S is offline  
post #28 of 36 Old 10-30-2013, 05:11 AM Thread Starter
Yo no s nada
 
spyke1019's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: North Florida
Posts: 976
Rep Power: 1
 
No it's bigger.

spyke1019 is offline  
post #29 of 36 Old 10-30-2013, 05:13 AM Thread Starter
Yo no s nada
 
spyke1019's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: North Florida
Posts: 976
Rep Power: 1
 
I wear an Xl glove

ForumRunner_20131030_081249.jpg

spyke1019 is offline  
post #30 of 36 Old 10-30-2013, 05:32 AM
Tirone
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 11
Rep Power: 1
 
I had the same problem on my old CB750F - turned out it was bad Stator coil. From what I remember the coil passed the continuity test, but visually looking at it some of the "gunk" coating the coils was cracked and crumbling off. I got one off of ebay for 25$ and it fixed it.

This article has some very good troubleshooting tips:
Dan's Motorcycle

eightball is offline  
post #31 of 36 Old 10-30-2013, 08:51 AM
Burn-em Upus Asphaltus
 
rickard919's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 3,802
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Donation 
Total Awards: 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by eightball View Post
I had the same problem on my old CB750F - turned out it was bad Stator coil. From what I remember the coil passed the continuity test, but visually looking at it some of the "gunk" coating the coils was cracked and crumbling off. I got one off of ebay for 25$ and it fixed it.

This article has some very good troubleshooting tips:
Dan's Motorcycle
Exactly what I was saying earlier. Passing the tests doesn't always prove anything.

Spoiler:

rickard919 is offline  
post #32 of 36 Old 10-30-2013, 09:11 AM Thread Starter
Yo no s nada
 
spyke1019's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: North Florida
Posts: 976
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marylandmike View Post
Most auto parts stores will do it for free. It measures how low the voltage drops when a load is put on it. You can also do it with the battery on the bike and measure how low the voltage drops when you start the bike, but you would need a meter with would store the max and min readings. With a digital meter it would be really hard to do by just watching the numbers.
I got a 3.4v drop.

spyke1019 is offline  
post #33 of 36 Old 10-30-2013, 09:26 AM
Brain stolen again?
 
Bigdaa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Goleta, California
Posts: 17,217
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spyke1019 View Post
I already did this exact thing, the three were reading between 12.2 to 13.9 at idle. Got up to 35.9 with throttle. No continuity.
Rob is telling you to do a "static resistance check" of an item, open circuit.

If you were doing the test with the engine idling, you are not doing the same test.

Reread his suggestion including unplugging the connector, then go back through it with the engine off and the ignition off and meter in the suggested resistance check ranges.

Good luck amigo.

I said I never had much use for one.
Never said I didn't know how to use it."
Mathew Quigley
Bigdaa is online now  
post #34 of 36 Old 10-30-2013, 09:29 AM Thread Starter
Yo no s nada
 
spyke1019's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: North Florida
Posts: 976
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigdaa View Post

Rob is telling you to do a "static resistance check" of an item, open circuit.

If you were doing the test with the engine idling, you are not doing the same test.

Reread his suggestion including unplugging the connector, then go back through it with the engine off and the ignition off and meter in the suggested resistance check ranges.

Good luck amigo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spyke1019 View Post
Using the lowest setting in grey on my meter for 200 ohms I got a 1.2 across the board. And no continuity on all three pens. Ignition was off.
Results

spyke1019 is offline  
post #35 of 36 Old 10-30-2013, 09:35 AM
Brain stolen again?
 
Bigdaa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Goleta, California
Posts: 17,217
Rep Power: 1
 
My mistake.

note to self..........................finish reading posts before "gobbing"

I said I never had much use for one.
Never said I didn't know how to use it."
Mathew Quigley
Bigdaa is online now  
post #36 of 36 Old 10-30-2013, 02:32 PM
Why's everything on fire?
 
CB700S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Dallas
Posts: 2,326
Rep Power: 1
 
Garage
Yeah, that's the matchbox r/r. A whole bunch of makes and bikes got screwed by that design in the 80s and 90s, which is why later r/r's are significantly larger and include cooling fins. To put that in perspective - the 919's r/r is about the size of an iPhone, is in an area that gets lots of air flow and has prominent cooling fins. My 700's is about the size of a small paperback book and is similarly finned and placed. Yours is not finned and not very large so it has little surface area for cooling.

The VFR guys are particularly affected by the problem due to where the matchbox is mounted on their machines, so they have the most institutional knowledge about it. Info below:
VFR Regulator/Rectifier Failure
Honda VFR 750 Regulator / Rectifier
How to fix common regulator/Stator failures

Bottom line: Pitch the matchbox and install a later Yamaha R1 or upgraded aftermarket R/R.

1986 Honda Nighthawk 700S
2002 Honda 919
CB700S is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wrist Twisters forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome