Suspension Questions - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 69 Old 04-23-2018, 02:10 PM Thread Starter
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Suspension Questions

Ok guys some of you have seen where I have the bike for sale but I am having a hard time selling it. The more I think about it the more I love me some 919. I rode through the dragon and it did ok. It didnt want to tyrn in and felt heavy. I rode an sv650 and was killer. I know the 919 is a heavier bike but it has the sv on the straights bar none. I want to keep the 919 amd had a few questions. If I went with an f4i front and f4i rear suspension setup. Went with wider lower bars and some stickier Michelin goodness would it be a huge difference? If so I am keeping it lol. I know the ohlins is the way to go out back but i personally am not going to throw a 1k at a shock I will never fully utilize imo. So help me keep it if possible because I love what it is I just eant to be able to flick it into a curve better. It always feels ready to come back up and I have to work hard to keep it down through a turn. Guess im confused right now because Im in a love hate relationship lol. Thanks guys.

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post #2 of 69 Old 04-23-2018, 02:21 PM
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look at Hellimech's honda 919 and then start planing (and saving your cash).


When you reach that level, you can only add to the stable :P
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post #3 of 69 Old 04-23-2018, 02:43 PM
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Instead of all the trouble and expense of converting the front end to something off another bike, and starting from scratch, why not just send your forks and shock to Daugherty Motorsports, and have him set up what you already have?

Tires make a big difference. Bars help some.

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post #4 of 69 Old 04-23-2018, 02:56 PM
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I saw your ad and thought it was a bit soon to give up on it. I'm kinda glad you're giving it another chance.

IMO, the 919 can be had for a few grand less than others like the ZRX, Monster, Buell, etc...

I also have an opinion about mods and it lines up with what you've said about not fully utilizing some of the more expensive things.

When I got mine, about the 3rd year it started acting funny. I finally got around to reworking the forks and they were a HUGE mess. There was water in the forks.

Point: before you start getting into mods, I'd go thru things.

Some things you can't go wrong with, like tires. Get the greatest tires you can, rebuild the forks, adjust the suspension as best you can.

At that point, you haven't wasted any money.

Look at things like gold valves / springs or convert to something else like the F4i or whatever.

Some have had the rear shock rebuilt, or replaced with another, plenty of write ups on that.

One thing that we really don't seem to have (or that I can find) is how to dial in the suspension. I've seen videos about ride height, but really can't find the info on adjustments.

My point is that you won't be wasting money on great tires, rebuilding the forks is cheap and might get you where you want to be.

I'd do this before you look at mods because mods tend to cover faults.

If you happen to come across a great tutorial on setting up the suspension, share with the rest of us.
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post #5 of 69 Old 04-23-2018, 03:31 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys this helps me out, the front end is in great shape as it was gone through 2 years ago by a honda tech with all new seals etc.. I was thinking about sending the forks in to someone but do not like to wait on turn around. I am going to dig into it and see what happens. As for the engine I have no qualms, its plenty of grunt but I will prob at a pciii when I do exhaust. If I see a good thread on setups Karl I sure will share it. And whats this about Daugherty, are they similar to racetech?

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post #6 of 69 Old 04-23-2018, 03:33 PM
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Don't give up on the 919 yet.
At the end of the day the bike is a jack of all and master of none.
The stock suspension is set up for two up riding. Very firm in the rear and soft up front. Rebuilding the forks to your weight and fitting an aftermarket rear shock will transform the ride.
A power commander and aftermarket pipes will also help you enjoy the bike more.
I absolutely love the reliability of the 919 and the mid range torque of the engine.
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post #7 of 69 Old 04-23-2018, 03:44 PM
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Question- what tires do you have now and how old are they?

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post #8 of 69 Old 04-23-2018, 04:18 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Question- what tires do you have now and how old are they?
Ok here it comes lol. Continental Conti Motion. Maybe a couple years old

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post #9 of 69 Old 04-23-2018, 05:10 PM
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Invest in a set of Road 3,4,5's, take your pick, and report back.
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post #10 of 69 Old 04-23-2018, 05:17 PM
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For the shock, check this out if still available. Will take a little work to fit it, but is supposed to be valved the same as the 9'er Ohlins for a lot less $$.

https://www.wristtwisters.com/forums/...ad.php?t=77401

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post #11 of 69 Old 04-24-2018, 05:20 AM
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I had Conti Motion tires on my '07 and switched to Michelin Road 3's which made a huge difference in the bike. I had tried different bars but came back to the OEM's as being the best compromise. I changed the front and brake pads to Vesrah's and that made a big difference in brake feel.

Try some of the simple, less expensive changes before throwing a lot of money at your machine!
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post #12 of 69 Old 04-24-2018, 10:08 AM
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Daughtery is a guy in northern Indiana, who will replace the internals of your stock components, to customize your forks and shock to your weight and riding style. The Interceptor owners think he's The Guy. He does more than Interceptors.

Be warned: Once you have a suspention set up correctly, professionally, You're ruined. You'll never be satisfied with most OEM suspensions again. I had a 929 with an Ohlins rear shock, and had the forks re-done by Dan Kyle....That was a long time ago, and I've never ridden anything with as good of a suspention. My 990 Super Duke is close.

When I first got my Interceptor, it handled like crap. I jacked up the rear preload, and put new tires on. Huge difference.
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post #13 of 69 Old 04-24-2018, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper-x View Post
Be warned: Once you have a suspention set up correctly, professionally, You're ruined. You'll never be satisfied with most OEM suspensions again. I had a 929 with an Ohlins rear shock, and had the forks re-done by Dan Kyle....That was a long time ago, and I've never ridden anything with as good of a suspention. My 990 Super Duke is close.
You know we do that exact same treatment to the 919 forks. It's the same valve spec.
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post #14 of 69 Old 04-24-2018, 01:35 PM Thread Starter
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What will it run me for the front LDH?

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post #15 of 69 Old 04-24-2018, 01:40 PM
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$675 includes Ohlins Piston Kit, Oil, Springs, Spacers and Labor plus whatever it costs to ship your forks back to you.

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post #16 of 69 Old 04-24-2018, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LDH View Post
$675 includes Ohlins Piston Kit, Oil, Springs, Spacers and Labor plus whatever it costs to ship your forks back to you.
Sweet deal! It was $700.00 a few years ago...

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post #17 of 69 Old 04-24-2018, 02:15 PM
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post #18 of 69 Old 04-24-2018, 02:16 PM
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Should probably include about $100 more for new seals and bushings since we are already in there.

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post #19 of 69 Old 04-24-2018, 02:56 PM
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If I had a really nice 919, I'd send the forks to LDH as as soon as possible.

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post #20 of 69 Old 04-24-2018, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LDH View Post
Should probably include about $100 more for new seals and bushings since we are already in there.


LDH I know these are not going to have the adjustability of an f4i fork but will a properly setup stock fork have similar performance?

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post #21 of 69 Old 04-24-2018, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
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LDH I know these are not going to have the adjustability of an f4i fork but will a properly setup stock fork have similar performance?
Yes.

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post #22 of 69 Old 04-24-2018, 03:02 PM
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LOL!

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post #23 of 69 Old 04-24-2018, 03:03 PM
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Iím also learning everything I can for some future suspension upgrades. Maybe soon, maybe a few months depending on cost.

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post #24 of 69 Old 04-24-2018, 03:07 PM
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The F4i forks are just as bad if not worse than the 919 forks. Anyone that tells you otherwise is clueless. They both have incorrect spring rates for any reasonably sporty type riding and the damping curves just plain suck. The same revalve and respring we do to the 919 forks also gets done to the F4i forks to make them worth a damn.

Replacing one OEM part with another OEM part never truly makes sense in the world of motorcycles. A lot of people subscribe to the placebo effect of just because it is different it must be better.
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post #25 of 69 Old 04-24-2018, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LDH View Post
The F4i forks are just as bad if not worse than the 919 forks. Anyone that tells you otherwise is clueless. They both have incorrect spring rates for any reasonably sporty type riding and the damping curves just plain suck. The same revalve and respring we do to the 919 forks also gets done to the F4i works to make them worth a damn.

Replacing one OEM part with another OEM part never truly makes sense in the world of motorcycles. A lot of people subscribe to the placebo effect of just because it is different it must be better.


Thank you, for your informed advice. I really appreciate it.

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post #26 of 69 Old 04-24-2018, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LDH View Post
The F4i forks are just as bad if not worse than the 919 forks. Anyone that tells you otherwise is clueless. They both have incorrect spring rates for any reasonably sporty type riding and the damping curves just plain suck. The same revalve and respring we do to the 919 forks also gets done to the F4i forks to make them worth a damn.
Agreed.
The only advantage of the F4i forks is from a "core" point of view in the sense they have a low speed compression adjuster, which the 919 doesn't.
They both badly need respringing and revamped hydraulics just like LDH said above.
If one doesn't care about having low speed compression adjustability, stay with the 919 forks and do a proper build of them.
If one wants low speed compression adjustability, use a set of F4i forks as the platform for the still needed fork build, and swap out the factory Lo Spd Comp needle with a decent one.
The F4i forks are a bit shorter, but revising the top out spring internally lengthens them to essentially the same length as 919 forks.
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post #27 of 69 Old 04-24-2018, 07:37 PM
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I think LDH would be wise to invest in a few sets of these forks so that they can be ready to go, shipped out and swapped out. We used to do this with banking equipment. You send them a box with the new forks, they install them and return the cores. Same thing could be said about those custom seats.

It doesn't work for everyone to either buy a 2nd set or down their bike for a period of time.

Although in this case, seems like if the F4i forks aren't that much more money, the low speed compression could be worth it. I'm not sure what difference low speed compression would make.

Does that mean when the wheel is hitting a bump and it's no causing it to move quickly? I assume it doesn't really mean the speed of the bike, but the quickness of the compression movement.

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post #28 of 69 Old 04-24-2018, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
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I think LDH would be wise to invest in a few sets of these forks so that they can be ready to go, shipped out and swapped out. We used to do this with banking equipment. You send them a box with the new forks, they install them and return the cores. Same thing could be said about those custom seats.

It doesn't work for everyone to either buy a 2nd set or down their bike for a period of time.

Although in this case, seems like if the F4i forks aren't that much more money, the low speed compression could be worth it. I'm not sure what difference low speed compression would make.

Does that mean when the wheel is hitting a bump and it's no causing it to move quickly? I assume it doesn't really mean the speed of the bike, but the quickness of the compression movement.
Sounds great until someone gets a set of forks back that they don't think are in as good as shape as the ones they sent in or the opposite. Somebody sends in some rashed up, ragged out forks with so much brake dust on them that it has permanently pitted both the paint and the chrome stanchions or worse...

The real truth is I only do about 2 sets of 919 forks a year as 919 guys are notoriously cheap and only want to half-ass do things . RC51 forks on the other hand I probably do 50 sets a year... It's ridiculous how many of those forks still come in from all over the world every week. I got a set in just today for re-work and with a touch of irony had a set last week in that are being custom fit to a 919.

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post #29 of 69 Old 04-24-2018, 08:39 PM
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I had my 919 forks redone by Dan Kyle and put a Ohlins rear shock on the back and have never looked back. Every winter I think about selling my 919 but after that first ride in the spring I'm very happy that I've kept it. It does seem like a lot of money but I've never regretted it and I know I can recoup some if my money if I ever sell the bike.

Now if I could only afford a Ohlins suspension for my Africa Twin life would be great!

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post #30 of 69 Old 04-24-2018, 08:42 PM
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I had the same line of thinking you did. 2 919s, countless mods and 5 years later, I finally got an Ohlins rear. What a world of difference! I tried everything else that was available at the time, short of modifying another shock and nothing worked well. What a colossal waste of time and money.

Looking back, I wish I had done the suspension first, and then everything else. The Ohlins was that amazing. Yes you'll get ton of use out of it. And your money's worth!

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post #31 of 69 Old 04-24-2018, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
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I had my 919 forks redone by Dan Kyle and put a Ohlins rear shock on the back and have never looked back. Every winter I think about selling my 919 but after that first ride in the spring I'm very happy that I've kept it. It does seem like a lot of money but I've never regretted it and I know I can recoup some if my money if I ever sell the bike.
I've always regretted selling my 919 and regretted not buying it back when I had the chance even more. It was just always the wrong time financially and sacrifices had to be made to further my life goals.

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post #32 of 69 Old 04-24-2018, 09:27 PM
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I was about to suggest a "kit" for the RC51 adapted to the 919, but if the 919 owners are that cheap, it wouldn't work well.

2 sets a year... not a common bike, but still... I guess maybe they're a different type of rider, IDK.

The OP talked about not needed that much, I have to agree, I don't think my skill are that great.

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post #33 of 69 Old 04-24-2018, 09:28 PM Thread Starter
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Good info everyone and thanks for the knowledge LDH. This would be a good project for me this winter as I am riding it a lot now and can't have it down for more than a couple days. SO I am looking at around $1500 front and back to really have this thing "railed" out? Gosh looks scary when I say it like that LOL. Also, would I be better off rebuilding the stock rear shock or rebuilding one from an F3? I can get a good F3 core for almost free.

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post #34 of 69 Old 04-24-2018, 10:25 PM
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Do some searches on here. A number of people have tried to rebuild pos OEM units without much success.

It's a lot of money up front, but you recoup most of it back and that amount of fun you had puts what you spent seem a pittance.

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post #35 of 69 Old 04-25-2018, 03:50 AM Thread Starter
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Im cool with $4-500 on the front forks but I personally am not going to throw 1k at 1 rear shock. I thinks thats a little excessive but thats just opinion. I put a set of 4 coilovers on the audi for $1600 so the math looks off to me. Just my opinion not looking to ruffle feathers.

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post #36 of 69 Old 04-25-2018, 05:11 AM
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Daughtery will re spring, and valve your stock 919 shock for $395.

Plus $700 for LDHs forks, you'd be set.

Honestly, both of those are cheap! I mean a good value
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post #37 of 69 Old 04-25-2018, 06:36 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper-x View Post
Daughtery will re spring, and valve your stock 919 shock for $395.

Plus $700 for LDHs forks, you'd be set.

Honestly, both of those are cheap! I mean a good value
Im completly cool with that. Will probably be all I ever need. I think your advice would be spot on for me.

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post #38 of 69 Old 04-25-2018, 08:05 AM
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I can sell you just the Ohlins piston kit, oil and springs for like $449 shipped.

You have to cut your own spring spacers and do the install, but it every penny counts it is a way to save additional money.

Personally if I had to pick between the front & rear of the 919 I would buy the Ohlins shock and just make due with the front which I always found to be quite sure footed.

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post #39 of 69 Old 04-25-2018, 09:10 AM Thread Starter
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So LDH your saying to just keep the stock front end in good order and just buy the rear? I would be cool with that too. I am a bigger guy at 6' 220lbs is that still acceptable? Right now I have no rebound or preload up front being a 2002. But I will admit I am a total suspension newb on bikes.

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post #40 of 69 Old 04-25-2018, 09:30 AM
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FWIW, I installed the rear shock well before I did the forks (myself), I agree with LDH, the rear made the most difference. The forks were a big bonus but not as dramatic a difference as the shock.

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