suspension on 2007 919 - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 21 Old 03-29-2020, 10:22 PM Thread Starter
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suspension on 2007 919

so i gotta couple questions to ask in regrades to the suspension on these things
1. the rebound adjustment (ten) for the forks is the small screw fine tuning and the whole section its set in major tuning or is the screw all the adjustment you get?

2. i was looking at replacing the rear shock and was wondering penskes website says that you can buy a 8987 triple adjustable shock or a 8983 double adjustable. now upon going to ebay to see what ones their are since im not to keen on spending a 1000 plus i saw quite a few. only thing is their for 2015 triumph street triple, 2004/2005 gsxr 750/600, and their was one for an o4 cbr1000rr will these fit direct bolt on or will they require modification.

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post #2 of 21 Old 03-30-2020, 01:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Logan Sigmon View Post
so i gotta couple questions to ask in regrades to the suspension on these things
1. the rebound adjustment (ten) for the forks is the small screw fine tuning and the whole section its set in major tuning or is the screw all the adjustment you get?

2. i was looking at replacing the rear shock and was wondering penskes website says that you can buy a 8987 triple adjustable shock or a 8983 double adjustable. now upon going to ebay to see what ones their are since im not to keen on spending a 1000 plus i saw quite a few. only thing is their for 2015 triumph street triple, 2004/2005 gsxr 750/600, and their was one for an o4 cbr1000rr will these fit direct bolt on or will they require modification.



None of those are direct bolt on. I've spoken with Penske about a lot of the ones that have come up on eBay and they would all require parts swapping back at Penske to work. Only ones intended for a 919 or *possibly* some setups for a CBR600F4 might work, but they doubted the latter.

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post #3 of 21 Old 03-30-2020, 01:11 AM Thread Starter
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any idea how much such parts swapping might run cause if its up their i might as well live with the current rear shock or buy a brand new one

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post #4 of 21 Old 03-30-2020, 01:17 AM
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any idea how much such parts swapping might run cause if its up their i might as well live with the current rear shock or buy a brand new one

About $500-600 worth was the average I was quoted, so unless you get it for free or so it's not really worth it.

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post #5 of 21 Old 03-30-2020, 01:21 AM Thread Starter
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About $500-600 worth was the average I was quoted, so unless you get it for free or so it's not really worth it.
yeah at that point its better of to live with it or buy brand new for reassurance

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post #6 of 21 Old 03-30-2020, 03:39 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Logan Sigmon View Post
so i gotta couple questions to ask in regrades to the suspension on these things
1. the rebound adjustment (ten) for the forks is the small screw fine tuning and the whole section its set in major tuning or is the screw all the adjustment you get?

2. i was looking at replacing the rear shock and was wondering penskes website says that you can buy a 8987 triple adjustable shock or a 8983 double adjustable. now upon going to ebay to see what ones their are since im not to keen on spending a 1000 plus i saw quite a few. only thing is their for 2015 triumph street triple, 2004/2005 gsxr 750/600, and their was one for an o4 cbr1000rr will these fit direct bolt on or will they require modification.
alright so did some of my own digging and i was kindave right for the front forks the the little flat blade screw is for rebound and thats all you get. the post it's set in is for preload on the front forks. the owners manual recommends leaving the 4th line flush with the top of the forks.

here is a current link to download an owners manual for the newer 919 with adjustable suspension look for pages 22-26 https://ownersmanuals2.com/honda/cb9...s-manual-70459

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post #7 of 21 Old 03-30-2020, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Logan Sigmon View Post
alright so did some of my own digging and i was kindave right for the front forks the the little flat blade screw is for rebound and thats all you get. the post it's set in is for preload on the front forks. the owners manual recommends leaving the 4th line flush with the top of the forks.

here is a current link to download an owners manual for the newer 919 with adjustable suspension look for pages 22-26 https://ownersmanuals2.com/honda/cb9...s-manual-70459
If I'm not mistaken, there's only 3 things you can do before you have to buy some parts: The two adjustments you've noted (only on post 2004 forks) and you can play with the fork oil weight. Example 10, 7.5, 5


There's some other options if you want do some work. F4i fork swap, gold valve, cartridge (might be the same thing), RC51 swap (maybe requires custom machining?).


Seems the easy path is the cartridge / gold valve, then find some nice F4i forks and maybe there an option to upgrade the F4i forks but IDK.

Several threads on this, so I'm not going to try to dupe them here.

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post #8 of 21 Old 03-30-2020, 12:20 PM
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I have noticed that my forks are way to harsh so i am going to try adjusting them and change out the fork oil to a 7.5w if that is not enough i may look at the Racetec springs and dampener shims. Dose anyone on hear have experience with how much of a change the 7.5W fork oil affected things?

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post #9 of 21 Old 03-30-2020, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Fsjunky View Post
I have noticed that my forks are way to harsh so i am going to try adjusting them and change out the fork oil to a 7.5w if that is not enough i may look at the Racetec springs and dampener shims. Dose anyone on hear have experience with how much of a change the 7.5W fork oil affected things?
919 forks are harsh to begin with, because of their stiction.
Meanwhile, the forks have mush springs and are lightly damped.
If you have an 04 or later, make sure the rebound adjuster is not set too firm.
Make sure the lip seals are not dry by the absence of grease in the void between the lips.
Make sure the front end is set up nice and square.
And make sure your front tire is not at 36 psi.
My suggestion is that you don't waste a second or a penny until all the above has been addressed first.
Not only that, it may be that Racetech doesn't even have a spring lighter than the stock rate, let alone that stiffer rate that 100% of the Racetech (& Ohlins) springs in 919s have been.
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post #10 of 21 Old 04-03-2020, 02:26 PM
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Good economical advice above. That said there are some good deals on cbr 600 forks on ebay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/283830213983?ul_noapp=true

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post #11 of 21 Old 04-03-2020, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by CenCO 919 View Post
Good economical advice above. That said there are some good deals on cbr 600 forks on ebay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/283830213983?ul_noapp=true
Those are a direct bolt in and offer compression adjustment right?

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post #12 of 21 Old 04-03-2020, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Fsjunky View Post
Those are a direct bolt in and offer compression adjustment right?
IDK what the difference between the F4 and F4i, might want to look into that.

https://www.wristtwisters.com/forums...wap-28089.html

https://www.fireblades.org/threads/c...n-a-919.79747/

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post #13 of 21 Old 04-04-2020, 08:51 AM
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IDK what the difference between the F4 and F4i, might want to look into that.

https://www.wristtwisters.com/forums...wap-28089.html

https://www.fireblades.org/threads/c...n-a-919.79747/
F4 was 1999/2000
F4i was 2001/2006
Same front forks, although I am not sure about the spring rates, although all of them are mush.
All of them had external low speed rebound and low speed compression adjustment.
They are about 5 mm shorter than 919 forks unless the top out is reworked.
The standard low speed compression valve (needle/seat assembly) is a poser piece for anyone looking for serious adjustment capability but an inexpensive aftermarket item takes care of that.
The low speed rebound valve (needle/seat) is shaped differently than the 919's, so one will find it necessary to have it closed down a touch more for the same effect.
The fender mounting points are very different, so a 919 fender is not a simple bolt on, but adaptor brackets or welded on tabs will solve that.
Or a F4(i) fender can be used.

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post #14 of 21 Old 04-04-2020, 09:39 AM
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F4 was 1999/2000
F4i was 2001/2006
Same front forks, although I am not sure about the spring rates, although all of them are mush.
All of them had external low speed rebound and low speed compression adjustment.
They are about 5 mm shorter than 919 forks unless the top out is reworked.
The standard low speed compression valve (needle/seat assembly) is a poser piece for anyone looking for serious adjustment capability but an inexpensive aftermarket item takes care of that.
The low speed rebound valve (needle/seat) is shaped differently than the 919's, so one will find it necessary to have it closed down a touch more for the same effect.
The fender mounting points are very different, so a 919 fender is not a simple bolt on, but adaptor brackets or welded on tabs will solve that.
Or a F4(i) fender can be used.
So what's the bottom line: If you have the stock 04+ 919 forks and the F4i forks side by side and you upgrade the springs and the valve/cartridge/gold valve... which is better and why?

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post #15 of 21 Old 04-04-2020, 10:46 AM
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So what's the bottom line: If you have the stock 04+ 919 forks and the F4i forks side by side and you upgrade the springs and the valve/cartridge/gold valve... which is better and why?
My opinion is as follows.

IF one is a serious track day rider on a 919 AND:
1 is of at least a decent pace in the faster window or medium group, or slow race group.
2 knows how to do set up and make subsequent adjustments, or will learn to, or will pay someone else to do it.
3 has the budget and willingness to buy the F4(i) forks as cores for a subsequent full build.
THEN a full build of a F4(i) front end can be justified and exploited, otherwise it's a waste of $$$.
My guess is that the above will be less than 3 % of the 919 riders fleet.
(the above is aside from someone simply wanting to do a build for just the sake of doing a build, but most in that camp will go with a USD fork conversion)

For the all the rest, IF someone wants to vastly improve the front end within the confines of 04+ 919 forks, then a full build including a proper low speed compression bleed drilling of the compression valve body is the way to go.

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post #16 of 21 Old 04-04-2020, 12:38 PM
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If I were to track out my 919, I'd get the fully adjustable drop in ohlins forks and shock. And some rearsets. I don't like the rear shock's damping characteristics, and I get absolutely no feel from the front end compared to the sportier options out there. It works though.

For the street the bike is more than enough to dust anyone, completely stock, but you don't need 55+ degrees of lean there.

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post #17 of 21 Old 04-04-2020, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
My opinion is as follows.

IF one is a serious track day rider on a 919 AND:
1 is of at least a decent pace in the faster window or medium group, or slow race group.
2 knows how to do set up and make subsequent adjustments, or will learn to, or will pay someone else to do it.
3 has the budget and willingness to buy the F4(i) forks as cores for a subsequent full build.
THEN a full build of a F4(i) front end can be justified and exploited, otherwise it's a waste of $$$.
My guess is that the above will be less than 3 % of the 919 riders fleet.
(the above is aside from someone simply wanting to do a build for just the sake of doing a build, but most in that camp will go with a USD fork conversion)

For the all the rest, IF someone wants to vastly improve the front end within the confines of 04+ 919 forks, then a full build including a proper low speed compression bleed drilling of the compression valve body is the way to go.
IDK where I got this info, but someone was suggesting that USD forks really aren't worth it if you have to pay much more. In the case of the 919, you don't have an USD fork option without quite a bit more work. Meaning, the F4 series is as "direct bolt on" as you can ask for.

So the real question is "what do you get" for the F4 conversion.

The other concern is how you calculate the costs. If you remove the cost of the forks and just compare everything else, you have springs, valves and rebuild (seals, guides, fluid,...) then you can compare rebuilding stock 919 forks to rebuilding f4 forks.

THEN, the cost is JUST the forks. So that's $160~$200 ?

So you're looking at springs and valve conversion, say $400? (wild guess)

Seals, guides, fluid, say $100?

So the difference is what? $500 vs $700?

So what do you gain for your $200? That extra control valve at the bottom?


Compare that to the RC51 fork conversion for USD forks and you're looking at the whole front end and machining? Then you gain what?

It kinda looks like the F4 is a pretty good option IF your 919 forks are ready for a rebuild/valve upgrade. You spend about $200 more for something quite a bit better?

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post #18 of 21 Old 04-04-2020, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlJay View Post
IDK where I got this info, but someone was suggesting that USD forks really aren't worth it if you have to pay much more. In the case of the 919, you don't have an USD fork option without quite a bit more work. Meaning, the F4 series is as "direct bolt on" as you can ask for.

So the real question is "what do you get" for the F4 conversion.

The other concern is how you calculate the costs. If you remove the cost of the forks and just compare everything else, you have springs, valves and rebuild (seals, guides, fluid,...) then you can compare rebuilding stock 919 forks to rebuilding f4 forks.

THEN, the cost is JUST the forks. So that's $160~$200 ?

So you're looking at springs and valve conversion, say $400? (wild guess)

Seals, guides, fluid, say $100?

So the difference is what? $500 vs $700?

So what do you gain for your $200? That extra control valve at the bottom?


Compare that to the RC51 fork conversion for USD forks and you're looking at the whole front end and machining? Then you gain what?

It kinda looks like the F4 is a pretty good option IF your 919 forks are ready for a rebuild/valve upgrade. You spend about $200 more for something quite a bit better?
1
I think you have missed catching that the F4(i) forks need valving and springs to upgrade them to a level of 919 forks valved and sprung.

2
A good set of appropriate length USD forks that have been built will yield superior fork performance as compared to a built F4(i) within the confines of OEM F4(i) cartridges and fork tubes. Plus also typically yield more trail, permit bigger brakes, and more wheel choices. Weigh that against the cost however, who can use it, where it can be used, and I think it explains why most USD conversions are likely done on the basis of simply wanting to, pure and simple.

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post #19 of 21 Old 04-04-2020, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
1
I think you have missed catching that the F4(i) forks need valving and springs to upgrade them to a level of 919 forks valved and sprung.

2
A good set of appropriate length USD forks that have been built will yield superior fork performance as compared to a built F4(i) within the confines of OEM F4(i) cartridges and fork tubes. Plus also typically yield more trail, permit bigger brakes, and more wheel choices. Weigh that against the cost however, who can use it, where it can be used, and I think it explains why most USD conversions are likely done on the basis of simply wanting to, pure and simple.
The compare I'm making is with both the 919 and the F4 forks needed springs and valving.

Let's say that you have two sets of forks in front of you, OEM 04+ 919 and OEM F4(i). Both sets of forks will need a full rebuild, including springs and valves. Assume the costs of the kits for both are the same.

At that point, the only cost difference is the cost of getting the F4(i) forks.

For the sake of argument, let's say that cost is $200.

So, what do you gain by selecting the F4(i) forks?

Understand that in each case, you pick whatever springs and valves and other mods you want.

My understanding is that the F4(i) forks give you 1 more adjustment that you won't get on the 919.

The USD isn't really worth getting into, I'd never consider that, it's just too deep into for me.

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post #20 of 21 Old 04-04-2020, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by KarlJay View Post
The compare I'm making is with both the 919 and the F4 forks needed springs and valving.



So, what do you gain by selecting the F4(i) forks?
A third external adjustability.
More refined adjustment of the low speed compression.
BUT only justifiable on the basis of true need IF one can and does the adjustments, then uses it at the target level.

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post #21 of 21 Old 04-08-2020, 05:14 PM
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I am sure the 3% figure for those that ride a 919 gaining utility from the compression damping on the CBR shock is in the ballpark. I wish i had got the forks just to extend the amount of time i could be working on something bike-related that is fun and productive compared to drinking beer, reading the headlines, and watching netflix.....

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