Stupid mistake - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 22 Old 08-09-2015, 12:47 PM Thread Starter
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Stupid mistake

Hey friends,
So maybe its cause I violated the golden rule of bike maintenance and was hurrying a bit, but I stupidly was replacing my battery and putting it back in with both connectors on and as I was adjusting, the negative terminal hit some metal and got some nice sparks and smoke.

I quickly took a step back for safety, gathered my idiotic mistake and disconnected everything and hooked battery back up.

Immediately upon turning on I notice all lights are good, but no FI sound, Fi light is not blinking either, just not making sound but lights up sort of like it normally does, just w/o the sound.

I then figure there's no way it'll start, and I was right. It cranks, but no fire, and so I stopped there as to not do more damage.

I checked and replaced fuse, and still getting no love on the FI sound.

When i put the switch to on, i hear a clicking sound from the wire harness area.

2 years ago, i did have wiring issues, but it was repaired.

Using the KISS theory I would suppose i fried something during batter replacement, since its the most obvious, recent change. and...the last time the bike started (albeit a year ago) it was fine.

Only other detail i'll mention is that i have not been on the bike since last summer. (work and kids).

Any ideas on what it could be? If its a short on the fi wire or circuit how much of a pain is that to fix?

Thanks for reading, sorry for my dumb mistake and I appreciate any guidance on this.

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post #2 of 22 Old 08-09-2015, 01:41 PM
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Doh! Well, start with the simple things before you get all worked up... Kill switch, fuses, grounds.
Now that I re-read, you did your fuse checks.
Perhaps dig around for the fuel pump relay, SE if that is being a party pooper.
Do you have a powercommander? If so, is it properly powered and grounded? Too often, it is the simple little things that get ya! Good luck!

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post #3 of 22 Old 08-09-2015, 01:47 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scrat View Post
Doh! Well, start with the simple things before you get all worked up... Kill switch, fuses, grounds.
Now that I re-read, you did your fuse checks.
Perhaps dig around for the fuel pump relay, SE if that is being a party pooper.
Do you have a powercommander? If so, is it properly powered and grounded? Too often, it is the simple little things that get ya! Good luck!
yup check all the little things... (no power commander)... once i take the back off i can check more about the wires but any input is appreciated!!

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post #4 of 22 Old 08-09-2015, 07:38 PM
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I connected a battery in reverse once, and it blew the main fuse and somehow ruined the spark plugs. Check all of the fuses with a meter. If i remember correctly the main fuse is located by itself from the rest of the fuses. Good luck

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post #5 of 22 Old 08-09-2015, 07:59 PM
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Faaaaaaaaaaaack. It really sucks when you want to ride and a mystery issue says you can't!
Have you unhooked and actually checked the fuel pump relay?
When I have electrical problems, I usually start with my test light to see what is and isn't getting juice.
If you can't fix it with a pliers or a hammer, it's an electrical issue for sure.

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post #6 of 22 Old 08-09-2015, 08:08 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2007BruteForece View Post
I connected a battery in reverse once, and it blew the main fuse and somehow ruined the spark plugs. Check all of the fuses with a meter. If i remember correctly the main fuse is located by itself from the rest of the fuses. Good luck
good to know thanks...i will check the main fuses as well and all of them. Lights work fine, bike cranks, just no FI pump, or "fuel" to fire it.

for the record... i touched the negative terminal on the copper/goldish looking metal part of one of the hoses just above where you put the battery in.....it sparked, smoked...then luckily i pulled the battery away...but smoke then came up thru the front of the tank. I'm lucky it wasn't worse.

Anyhow... the biggest thing I can notice aside from other potential damage is that the FI pump is not firing up. But the fi gauge light is on as normal.

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post #7 of 22 Old 08-09-2015, 08:13 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Faaaaaaaaaaaack. It really sucks when you want to ride and a mystery issue says you can't!
Have you unhooked and actually checked the fuel pump relay?
When I have electrical problems, I usually start with my test light to see what is and isn't getting juice.
If you can't fix it with a pliers or a hammer, it's an electrical issue for sure.
i have not checked the FPR yet, I replaced it 2 years ago , when i had an issue but it was fine last year, and the last time I rode it. Bout a month ago when I finally had time to get it out, I noticed battery was not taking charge any more on tender and had died, so got the new batt. .... forgot how tight the fit it was and touched some metal and here we are

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post #8 of 22 Old 08-09-2015, 08:59 PM
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Did you check your main fuse? I believe your + side of the battery goes to the main fuse before it splits off to the other areas of the bike. Although I would expect everything to be dead...
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post #9 of 22 Old 08-10-2015, 07:59 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffie7 View Post
Did you check your main fuse? I believe your + side of the battery goes to the main fuse before it splits off to the other areas of the bike. Although I would expect everything to be dead...
Hey man... you know i haven't checked the Main fuse. The only one i checked was the 20A one label FI ... i will go thru more tonight for sure.

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post #10 of 22 Old 08-10-2015, 08:50 AM
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Sadly I do believe If the main fuse is damaged that the bike would be dead no power no nothing. Id check the fuel pump fuse (with it in the bike) with a volt meter and see if the fuse is getting power if so try to check power at the positive side of the fuel pump.

Also check your fuses with a multi reader or swap them out for new fuses. Sometimes they go but you can't tell by looking at them.
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post #11 of 22 Old 08-10-2015, 01:07 PM
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First, its the positive terminal you shorted to the fuel pressure line, not the negative. Since that wire is not fused it couldn't have blown any of them.

Hmmm. Come to think of it the spark and smoke may have indicated where the problem lies: Technically, the fuel tank is not grounded to the frame or wiring harness anywhere but the relatively small diameter ground wire to the fuel pump and low fuel sensor. If too much current is applied to that wire by, say, applying battery voltage to a hard fuel line attached to the tank, it is possible it fried the wire. Tilt the tank up and inspect the wire and connector at the bottom of the tank. If it has been burned it should be pretty obvious, and is a relatively easy fix.

I'll think on this further and get back to you.

Rob

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post #12 of 22 Old 08-10-2015, 01:10 PM
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Im also thinking the problem lies between the battery and the fuel pump.
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post #13 of 22 Old 08-10-2015, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffie7 View Post
Did you check your main fuse? I believe your + side of the battery goes to the main fuse before it splits off to the other areas of the bike. Although I would expect everything to be dead...

+1 on this - this fuse was blown on mine when my ma's boyfriend while trying to jump start my bike attached the negative to the positive

but if i remember correctly i didnt get any power at all at that point

i'm defaulting to Rob's correct though and am curious to see what the problem is

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post #14 of 22 Old 08-10-2015, 04:50 PM
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I think Rob is onto something. Like he was alluding to, the negative terminal should have no voltage difference from the frame and exposed metal unless it was not hooked up or the main ground wire has an issue. Maybe investigate what your positive terminal would have hit and try to follow back to the closest grounds looking for burnt/broken wires starting with the tank ground as Rob suggested.

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post #15 of 22 Old 08-11-2015, 07:48 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robtharalson View Post
First, its the positive terminal you shorted to the fuel pressure line, not the negative. Since that wire is not fused it couldn't have blown any of them.

Hmmm. Come to think of it the spark and smoke may have indicated where the problem lies: Technically, the fuel tank is not grounded to the frame or wiring harness anywhere but the relatively small diameter ground wire to the fuel pump and low fuel sensor. If too much current is applied to that wire by, say, applying battery voltage to a hard fuel line attached to the tank, it is possible it fried the wire. Tilt the tank up and inspect the wire and connector at the bottom of the tank. If it has been burned it should be pretty obvious, and is a relatively easy fix.

I'll think on this further and get back to you.

Rob
Thanks Rob, you know... i think you may be on to something as well..and thanks for thinking about all the little details here...

First off to re clarify to others (not you) - this was not a case of reverse polarity (the positive was def on to pos, and vice versa).


Since its been 6 years since I replaced the battery, I (in my moment of ignorance)... forgot that since it's such a tight fit, you have so put positive in the compartment first, then attach negative last and push the battery in.

I am almost certain after I connected both terminals, i had the battery facing the wrong way (negative terminal was the one i was trying jam in the compartment first, as opposed to the positive which is the way the manual states, and allows the proper fit.

If this is the case, which I am pretty sure then it would be the positive terminal that then made contact with the metal part of the fuel line under the tank.

I haven't had time to get in there again but I will look at the wires under the tank....where would they be again? Thanks all

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post #16 of 22 Old 08-11-2015, 08:54 AM
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With the tank tilted up you will see a metal plate secured to the bottom of the tank close to the rear with two fuel lines (one high pressure banjo fitting, and one low pressure return hose), and three wires terminating at a connector block. The ground you are looking for is in that block.

Rob

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post #17 of 22 Old 08-23-2015, 11:18 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robtharalson View Post
With the tank tilted up you will see a metal plate secured to the bottom of the tank close to the rear with two fuel lines (one high pressure banjo fitting, and one low pressure return hose), and three wires terminating at a connector block. The ground you are looking for is in that block. Rob
So good call man- pulled up tank and see a green wire exposed and looks fried -
I pulled the black connector but under the tank are other connectors I'm not familiar with (copper things) and wires are in black bundle .

What's the easiest way to repair you think ? Thanks for the help


image-2152814538.jpg

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post #18 of 22 Old 08-23-2015, 05:27 PM
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Solder and splice would be what I'd do.

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post #19 of 22 Old 08-23-2015, 07:36 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Solder and splice would be what I'd do.
Thanks- the connector that's under neath the tank is one i'm not familiar with...(metal fork like connector), - so I'm not sure how to remove the fried wire from the "pack" (of three wires.). Just don't want to yank anything and it's a hard awkward stretch since its under the tank.

Thanks for reading and any help

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post #20 of 22 Old 08-24-2015, 02:06 PM
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It should have a small tine retaining it in the plastic piece. You should be able to depress and slide it out with a really small screw driver or the likes.

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post #21 of 22 Old 08-24-2015, 06:54 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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It should have a small tine retaining it in the plastic piece. You should be able to depress and slide it out with a really small screw driver or the likes.
would the same go for the metal/forkish connector that's underneath the tank?...(one part of the wire is in the black plastic piece, the other that's under the tank has a copper fork connector, and th other 2 wires that are part of the bundle have a connector I've never seen before (looks like round blue circle stickers to be honest )

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post #22 of 22 Old 08-25-2015, 07:00 AM
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My advice is to buy a heavy jumper wire with alligator clips on each end and jump the base of the fuel pump mount to a good chassis ground, then turn on the key. Chances are the pump will make the usual noise when it primes. If it does all you need to do is make a new ground wire with 1/4" ring lugs on each end and bolt it to the tank by removing one 6mm nut from the pump mount, place the ring lug on the stud, and reinstall the nut. The other end should go to the grounding point on the main frame spar under the tank on the right side. Problem solved. Just be sure to route the wire where it will not become trapped when the tank is in its usual position.

Rob

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