Startup issues - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 24 Old 05-03-2013, 05:28 PM Thread Starter
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Cool Startup issues

So I have a new (to me) '07 with 15k on it and it's developing an issue that's slowly getting worse. Runs fine otherwise, but it's having a problem with cold starts. It starts and dies immediately unless some throttle is given for a second or two.

It seems to be taking longer to start since I got it. Having the choke out doesn't seem to help. Idle speed isn't too low (right around 1250). Checked the air box today and there was exactly one fly in it.

It does have a power commander that I haven't played with, and the valve check is coming up soon. But really, I just don't wanna tool around tearing up random stuff until I find the issue. Has anyone else experienced this? What could be common culprits?

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post #2 of 24 Old 05-03-2013, 05:46 PM
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Power Commander is a known issue... I'm not sure if an updated firmware will solve it. Drop the PC in the mean time and I bet it's fine.

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post #3 of 24 Old 05-03-2013, 05:51 PM Thread Starter
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Funny, I just googled that and came across this thread: https://www.wristtwisters.com/forums/...xed-27598.html

Will definitely look into that.

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post #4 of 24 Old 05-03-2013, 06:23 PM
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Hey Mazaev, sadly there isn't a fix currently for the PCIII cold start issue. I've asked various people to test a theory though and I haven't had much luck with people reporting back their findings.

What I've found so far that works for me in bypassing the cold start issue is when I thumb the starter, I keep the start button engaged for an additional 2-5 seconds before I release the starter button after the engine fires up. Doesn't die on me and just purrs away like normal.

Would you mind testing this and seeing if this trick works for you and reporting back?

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post #5 of 24 Old 05-03-2013, 08:13 PM Thread Starter
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Tried that just now. It stayed on for the 3 seconds or so that i held the button, but died immediately after. Same thing for 3 tries. A blip of the throttle and it fires right up though.

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post #6 of 24 Old 05-03-2013, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazaev View Post
Tried that just now. It stayed on for the 3 seconds or so that i held the button, but died immediately after. Same thing for 3 tries. A blip of the throttle and it fires right up though.
That's usually what did it for me, too.

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post #7 of 24 Old 05-03-2013, 09:12 PM
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A mere blip of the throttle gets past the so called PC Cold Start problem?
If that truly is the case, then the PC Cold Start Problem means any claimant should be precluded from ever owning a carb'd bike.

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post #8 of 24 Old 05-03-2013, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazaev View Post
Tried that just now. It stayed on for the 3 seconds or so that i held the button, but died immediately after. Same thing for 3 tries. A blip of the throttle and it fires right up though.
Try it for a few more seconds if you can. Play with it and see if you get different results. On really cold days I have to hold mine down for as long as 5-6 seconds.

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post #9 of 24 Old 05-03-2013, 10:10 PM Thread Starter
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I'm guessing that it might not be the same with the engine running, but the last time I churned a starter for more than 5 seconds it blew and I had to get a new one. Those things overheat pretty quick.

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post #10 of 24 Old 05-04-2013, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazaev View Post
I'm guessing that it might not be the same with the engine running, but the last time I churned a starter for more than 5 seconds it blew and I had to get a new one. Those things overheat pretty quick.
starters on bikes (at least all the jap bikes), are different than cars... they use a one way bearing (unlike a car with a flywheel, starter cylonid and starter than engages a gear), no harm in pressing the starter while the bike is running one bit, as it just spins the bearing still slower than the motor is spinning... no different than if the starter was stopped.

I've been thumbing the starter for longer than "normal" for for at least 8 months now with zero issues. This ranges anywhere from 3-10 seconds depending on how cold it is. If there were any issues to crop up from doing this, I think it would of reared it's ugly head to me by now.

Please, give it a try, experiment with it, and report back.

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post #11 of 24 Old 05-05-2013, 07:17 AM Thread Starter
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It works, but I have to hold it for a while. What's starting to bother me is that it seems to be getting progressively worse.

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post #12 of 24 Old 05-05-2013, 07:33 AM
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Did you sync the throttle position in the PCIII software?

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post #13 of 24 Old 05-05-2013, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvster View Post
Try it for a few more seconds if you can. Play with it and see if you get different results. On really cold days I have to hold mine down for as long as 5-6 seconds.
Is That really WSS?

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post #14 of 24 Old 05-07-2013, 01:27 AM
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PC cold start problem

This problem was one of the first questions I'd asked soon after I joined the WT gang so, it's been bugging me too. Yesterday morning I held the starter switch in for about three seconds, which seems like a really long time since I know what happens if you try that with a car . It started immediately and kept running like a champ, to my great satisfaction . Can't wait to try it again in about three hours. It should be about 55*F by then. In the past, it didn't seem to be much related to the air temperature, or maybe slightly so.

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post #15 of 24 Old 05-07-2013, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deandeib View Post
This problem was one of the first questions I'd asked soon after I joined the WT gang so, it's been bugging me too. Yesterday morning I held the starter switch in for about three seconds, which seems like a really long time since I know what happens if you try that with a car . It started immediately and kept running like a champ, to my great satisfaction . Can't wait to try it again in about three hours. It should be about 55*F by then. In the past, it didn't seem to be much related to the air temperature, or maybe slightly so.
Thanks for reporting back your results deandeib. Please keep us posted!

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post #16 of 24 Old 05-09-2013, 09:40 AM
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About 50*F in the bike garage this morning. I wanted to try a "regular" start first, i.e.,quick button until it catches then release, hoping it would die so I could then immediately try the "hold the button in" method. But, it started the first time and kept running fine. So, I never got to try my little experiment. I'll try again next time and let you know what happens. It MAY be related to the air temp but past experience with this start-then-die problem didn't seem to show a correlation.

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post #17 of 24 Old 05-09-2013, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deandeib View Post
About 50*F in the bike garage this morning. I wanted to try a "regular" start first, i.e.,quick button until it catches then release, hoping it would die so I could then immediately try the "hold the button in" method. But, it started the first time and kept running fine. So, I never got to try my little experiment. I'll try again next time and let you know what happens. It MAY be related to the air temp but past experience with this start-then-die problem didn't seem to show a correlation.
Same thing happens to me, sometimes starts right up and sometimes not, warm or cold... But the benefits far outweigh this issue IMO.

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post #18 of 24 Old 05-09-2013, 10:57 AM
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I think I've always been confused on this issue. When you guys say "cold start issue", do you mean the bike is cold or the ambient temperature is cold? I thought I had a PCIII "cold" start issue earlier this winter when I would start up the bike in temperatures in the 30's and the engine would run for a second and then die. I got over that by just opening the throttle a bit or pulling the choke out. If not, the revs would drop too low and the engine would cut out.

Sounds like it's around the bike being cold and not the ambient temperature.

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post #19 of 24 Old 05-10-2013, 01:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sckill View Post
I think I've always been confused on this issue. When you guys say "cold start issue", do you mean the bike is cold or the ambient temperature is cold?

Sounds like it's around the bike being cold and not the ambient temperature.
I with you Sckill on the confusion RE: the "cold start" issue, engine temp? ambient air temp? and I don't have an answer, YET. All I know is that it can be annoying but I agree that the benefits far outweigh the downside. I'm going to take more note of the conditions when it does and doesn't happen and try to come to some cause and effect, at least regarding the temps.

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post #20 of 24 Old 05-11-2013, 08:44 AM
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If it helps, the "cold" issues for me happen only when the ambient temperature is below 40 and the engine is cold. I'm just guessing, but I think it's a problem not having enough juice to power the overall electrical system.

I have a Li Shorai battery so I always have to let it warm up before it puts out enough amps to crank. When the bike start ups, idle RPM will be low and bouncing up and down. If RPM drops below 800, the bike dies.

Again, just a guess, but low rpm -> low alternator output + low output from a cold battery => engine stall. I never had this issue with my 07 919 (stock battery, no PCIII), but my 04 (PCIII + Shorai) consistently shows this issue. Pulling out the choke to keep idle up prevents the engine from dying.

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post #21 of 24 Old 05-12-2013, 06:03 PM
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how about now

Stalling occurs immediately upon releasing the starter button.
If however, the starter button is depressed for long enough,
the engine will stay running.
Only releasing the starter button too soon causes stalling with a cold engine or air temperature.
I think the changes in voltage that occur when the starter stops and the headlight comes on, are affecting the PC.
I have not yet done the starter valve adjustment procedure,
but I think that will deal with the temperature issues and hopefully assist in better starting.

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post #22 of 24 Old 05-12-2013, 08:43 PM
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What happens if you change your start up procedure to bypass the headlights draw? Starter button held, turn key on, then hit the kill switch to run should fire up without headlight turning on then release starter? I dunno, its what I've been doing lately to help my hid ballast get the most out of its life.

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post #23 of 24 Old 05-12-2013, 09:32 PM
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Starter button cancels the stock headlight when it's depressed.
It's a stalling condition not a starting problem.

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post #24 of 24 Old 05-15-2013, 06:41 AM
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Ok.

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