starter valve syncronization procedure - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 85 Old 08-22-2012, 10:11 PM Thread Starter
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starter valve syncronization procedure

I recently did a starter valve sync on my niner and found that there was a lot that the service manual left out. i also found that web searching yielded little in the way of good info. after doing it I'm probably gonna check it ever time i have the tank up because it doesn't take long and is beneficial. Here's my attempt at a decent write up that everyone can understand.

warning signs that sync is needed:

-rough idle
-a slight miss sound randomly while riding at a steady speed
-poor throttle response from idle
-uneven coloration on spark plugs when comparing all four

total time: 30-60 minutes

tools needed:

5mm allen wrench
10mm 1/4" drive wrench
10mm 1/4" drive socket
7mm 1/4" drive socket
1/4" drive ratchet
6" 1/4" drive extension
long 45 degree needle nose pliers
4 cylinder mercury or similar vacuum gauge i.e. carbtune , motionpro
large fan
something to prop up gas tank
laptop (for pc3)
5/8" vacuum caps (for pairs system)

prep:

-remove seat
-remove side covers <5mm>
-loosen bolt that is horizontal and keeps tank in place <10mm>
-slide tank bank and raise fully
-support tank with block of wood or something
-remove pairs hoses and cap the plates (skip is pairs system removed)
-remove vacuum hoses from throttle bodys 1 and 4
-remove the vacuum lines closest to center line of bike on 2 and 3 (the outer vacuum lines on 2 and 3 are tied to the fuel pressure regulator and should not be removed)
-remove the 5 way splitter that the aforementioned vacuum hoses are attached to, with the four hoses still hanging off of them
-remove the hoses from 5 way and attach to ends of the leads from the mercury gauge
-install the lead for cylinder 3 first using needle nose pliers
-install all leads from gauge left to right cylinders 1,2,3,4 for easy identification
-hook up laptop to pc3 to monitor idle speed
-set up fan in front of the bike to blow on the radiator

adjustment:

-turn on the fan
-start the motor and let the computer enter open loop. it will run like poo at first but don't worry
-observe levels for each cylinder on the gauge. they all should match cylinder 2 as this is the master starter valve
-allow motor to reach its normal operating temp
-adjust cylinders 1,3,4 as needed by turning the adjustment nuts just behind the mounting bracket for the starter valve linkage. <7mm> (cylinder 2 cannot be adjusted) these nuts will turn by hand with use of the extension. they have notches similar to a rebound damper knob. turn right to lower vacuum and left to raise vacuum. for cylinder 3 i suck the extension and socket between the umbilical cord of wires and the frame.
-make small adjustments and allow system to settle as changes aren't reflected instantly. adjustments also affect the other cylinders slightly so a couple rounds of adjustments may be needed. with some patience you can get all 4 cylinders dead on even with each other
-shut off the motor

reassembly:

-basically just reverse the prep steps to put everything back together (leave laptop hooked up)
-start the motor up again (i didn't need to reset the computer or anything but there may be a stored code that might need cleared at some point)
-adjust idle to 1200rpm +/- 100 rpm
-re-sync throttle position with pc3
-marvel at how smooth it idles
-disconnect laptop
-put on your riding gear
-take it out for a good flogging
-thank me later

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post #2 of 85 Old 08-22-2012, 10:14 PM
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Great write-up!

Mods, please add this to the helpful topics!

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post #3 of 85 Old 08-22-2012, 10:21 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvster View Post
Great write-up!

Mods, please add this to the helpful topics!
Thanks!

and mods, we need a new banner *cough*my sig*cough* for the forum since g00gl3it has converted his fuel source from rice to pasta ....

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post #4 of 85 Old 08-22-2012, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferris Bueller View Post
Thanks!

and mods, we need a new banner *cough*my sig*cough* for the forum since g00gl3it has converted his carb source from rice to pasta ....
agreed.

And nice write up!!!!

question... does this need to be done on a 919 that doesnt have a pc3?

Mine idles pretty good (not perfectly smooth) and has a very minor miss at very low throttle openings while cruising (honestly not a big deal).... low speed throttle response is dang good though.

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post #5 of 85 Old 08-22-2012, 10:29 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nd4spdbh View Post
agreed.

And nice write up!!!!

question... does this need to be done on a 919 that doesnt have a pc3?

Mine idles pretty good (not perfectly smooth) and has a very minor miss at very low throttle openings while cruising (honestly not a big deal).... low speed throttle response is dang good though.
yeah it should still be checked. i might not go out of my way to check it but plan on it the next time you have the tank up for coolant or plugs etc.

the reference to the pc3 was only because the rpm read out is clearer for idle speed setting and if you change your idle speed screw it could affect the tps sync for the pc3.

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post #6 of 85 Old 08-22-2012, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferris Bueller View Post
yeah it should still be checked. i might not go out of my way to check it but plan on it the next time you have the tank up for coolant or plugs etc.

the reference to the pc3 was only because the rpm read out is clearer for idle speed setting and if you change your idle speed screw it could affect the tps sync for the pc3.
gotcha.... hmm now where to get my dirty lil paws on some vacuum gauges.

EDIT - is it possible to do this with a single vacuum gauge, and caps on the other outputs?

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post #7 of 85 Old 08-23-2012, 05:55 AM
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Very nice write-up. Thanks for taking the time to do it.

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post #8 of 85 Old 08-23-2012, 06:47 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nd4spdbh

gotcha.... hmm now where to get my dirty lil paws on some vacuum gauges.

EDIT - is it possible to do this with a single vacuum gauge, and caps on the other outputs?
I would imagine that it would be possible but way more time consuming and possibly not as accurate

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post #9 of 85 Old 08-23-2012, 01:05 PM
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post #10 of 85 Old 09-07-2012, 10:28 PM
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Gotta say guys, this sync proceedure made a noticeable difference in my bike. It sounds totally different than it used to, purrrrrs like a kitten, idle is smoooooth, and clutchless shifting has never been easier....

I borrowed my bros motion pro gauge set and had at it, start to finish about 50 min, easily worth the time....





Pics: https://www.wristtwisters.com/album.php?albumid=176

Build List in Spoiler
Spoiler:


SOLD SOLD SOLD

When Sold:
2004 Honda 919 Silver and Black w/red accents
599 Headlight
Koso Gauges DB-02r
GiPro gear indicator
Buell M2 shield - plasti dip black
Givi Crash bars
Dynojet PCIII, Custom Akrapovic map
Akrapovic GSXR 750 Exhaust, Shorty Carbon fiber Low mount
Custom weld job on OEM header, to enable use of center stand and GSXR exhaust
VFR front fender, re-shaped and CF wrapped
Seargent seat w/ gel insert
Custom LED Rear lights w/ Vizi-tech flasher
Competition Works Fender Eliminator, modified
Front 3-way LED Turn Signals flushmount via cbr1000r
6-Spoke wheel conversion ( 900rr-rear / F3-front ) Powdercoated white, Plasti-dipped black
Michelin Pilot Road 3 - New @ 19940 8/10/11 190/55r17 rear
Dyna Beads for tire balancing
17t / 44t Sprockets, 520 conversion from LDH
New All-balls bearings thru-out 6/2012
Piaa horns 400 & 500 hertz
Ohlins rear shock from an F3, Re-Valved/Sprung- By Pro Pilot Suspension
F4i Forks, custom sprung/sealed/valved, Plasti-dipped Black
ASV shorty clutch and front brake levers - Black W/Red Adj.
Tech-Spec custom tank Pads
Napoleon bar end mirrors
SW-Motech center stand
Custom Handle Bars with Grip Heaters and OEM hidden switch, Hi/Lo heat
FuzeBlocks FZ-1 Power Distribution
Shorai Battery
F2P garage door opener wired to brake switch
Hydraulic rear brake switch
RC51 front brakes SP1, with 10 button rotors
Buell Ulysses Dropped Foot Peg conversion
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etc, etc,
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post #11 of 85 Old 09-07-2012, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mntnceguy View Post
Gotta say guys, this sync proceedure made a noticeable difference in my bike. It sounds totally different than it used to, purrrrrs like a kitten, idle is smoooooth, and clutchless shifting has never been easier....

I borrowed my bros motion pro gauge set and had at it, start to finish about 50 min, easily worth the time....
did you think your bike was idiling bad before hand... or was it kind of an ignorance is bliss deal?

OH and to add to the op.

IF your doing this on a california bike. you will have an extra vacuum line coming off EACH THROTTLE BODY for the evap system.. personally i recommend to get rid of everything involving the evap system... its easy, just unbolt everything, and put 4 small vacuum caps on the throttle bodies.

That said, the 4 vacuum connections you need to use for the sync of the tboddies are the ones that connect together to the MAP sensor in the attached pic.
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File Type: jpg map.jpg (85.5 KB, 62 views)

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post #12 of 85 Old 09-07-2012, 11:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nd4spdbh View Post
did you think your bike was idiling bad before hand... or was it kind of an ignorance is bliss deal?
Honestly, mine was just the usual 919 idle burble....same as all my friends bikes, same as all the idle sound files posted here over the years. Now mine sounds different, much smoother. When I burp the throttle now the reaction is immediate and perfect, whereas before there was a bit of a hesitation, again, just like all my friends bikes. Please understand that I am being picky, but still, if you have any mechanical inclination and the tool to do it with, it's worth the time

Oh, and Thx for posting that vacuum hose diagram, that'll be a time saver for sure...





Pics: https://www.wristtwisters.com/album.php?albumid=176

Build List in Spoiler
Spoiler:


SOLD SOLD SOLD

When Sold:
2004 Honda 919 Silver and Black w/red accents
599 Headlight
Koso Gauges DB-02r
GiPro gear indicator
Buell M2 shield - plasti dip black
Givi Crash bars
Dynojet PCIII, Custom Akrapovic map
Akrapovic GSXR 750 Exhaust, Shorty Carbon fiber Low mount
Custom weld job on OEM header, to enable use of center stand and GSXR exhaust
VFR front fender, re-shaped and CF wrapped
Seargent seat w/ gel insert
Custom LED Rear lights w/ Vizi-tech flasher
Competition Works Fender Eliminator, modified
Front 3-way LED Turn Signals flushmount via cbr1000r
6-Spoke wheel conversion ( 900rr-rear / F3-front ) Powdercoated white, Plasti-dipped black
Michelin Pilot Road 3 - New @ 19940 8/10/11 190/55r17 rear
Dyna Beads for tire balancing
17t / 44t Sprockets, 520 conversion from LDH
New All-balls bearings thru-out 6/2012
Piaa horns 400 & 500 hertz
Ohlins rear shock from an F3, Re-Valved/Sprung- By Pro Pilot Suspension
F4i Forks, custom sprung/sealed/valved, Plasti-dipped Black
ASV shorty clutch and front brake levers - Black W/Red Adj.
Tech-Spec custom tank Pads
Napoleon bar end mirrors
SW-Motech center stand
Custom Handle Bars with Grip Heaters and OEM hidden switch, Hi/Lo heat
FuzeBlocks FZ-1 Power Distribution
Shorai Battery
F2P garage door opener wired to brake switch
Hydraulic rear brake switch
RC51 front brakes SP1, with 10 button rotors
Buell Ulysses Dropped Foot Peg conversion
Powdercoated: 22+ parts
etc, etc,
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post #13 of 85 Old 09-08-2012, 12:05 AM
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This is a great write up! I wouldn't mind doing this my self as the idle does have the burble, it was more noticable when I put on the Delkvics. I remember haveing to bench sync and vacume sync the carbs on my 81 GPz550 now that was a PITA!

Only other thing is I am a visual person so some photos would have been cool.

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post #14 of 85 Old 09-08-2012, 12:27 AM
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I've got my bros gauges still, prolly for another week or two anyway. Swing up if ya got time, I'm in Littleton, only takes about 45 min or so to sync the 9'er.





Pics: https://www.wristtwisters.com/album.php?albumid=176

Build List in Spoiler
Spoiler:


SOLD SOLD SOLD

When Sold:
2004 Honda 919 Silver and Black w/red accents
599 Headlight
Koso Gauges DB-02r
GiPro gear indicator
Buell M2 shield - plasti dip black
Givi Crash bars
Dynojet PCIII, Custom Akrapovic map
Akrapovic GSXR 750 Exhaust, Shorty Carbon fiber Low mount
Custom weld job on OEM header, to enable use of center stand and GSXR exhaust
VFR front fender, re-shaped and CF wrapped
Seargent seat w/ gel insert
Custom LED Rear lights w/ Vizi-tech flasher
Competition Works Fender Eliminator, modified
Front 3-way LED Turn Signals flushmount via cbr1000r
6-Spoke wheel conversion ( 900rr-rear / F3-front ) Powdercoated white, Plasti-dipped black
Michelin Pilot Road 3 - New @ 19940 8/10/11 190/55r17 rear
Dyna Beads for tire balancing
17t / 44t Sprockets, 520 conversion from LDH
New All-balls bearings thru-out 6/2012
Piaa horns 400 & 500 hertz
Ohlins rear shock from an F3, Re-Valved/Sprung- By Pro Pilot Suspension
F4i Forks, custom sprung/sealed/valved, Plasti-dipped Black
ASV shorty clutch and front brake levers - Black W/Red Adj.
Tech-Spec custom tank Pads
Napoleon bar end mirrors
SW-Motech center stand
Custom Handle Bars with Grip Heaters and OEM hidden switch, Hi/Lo heat
FuzeBlocks FZ-1 Power Distribution
Shorai Battery
F2P garage door opener wired to brake switch
Hydraulic rear brake switch
RC51 front brakes SP1, with 10 button rotors
Buell Ulysses Dropped Foot Peg conversion
Powdercoated: 22+ parts
etc, etc,
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post #15 of 85 Old 09-08-2012, 07:40 AM
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Thanks for the offer!!! I'll send you a text, but first I have to find a day I can wake up early and ride up. I am on mids so i spend my days sleeping my night working or playing video games.

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post #16 of 85 Old 09-08-2012, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mntnceguy View Post
Honestly, mine was just the usual 919 idle burble....same as all my friends bikes, same as all the idle sound files posted here over the years. Now mine sounds different, much smoother. When I burp the throttle now the reaction is immediate and perfect, whereas before there was a bit of a hesitation, again, just like all my friends bikes. Please understand that I am being picky, but still, if you have any mechanical inclination and the tool to do it with, it's worth the time

Oh, and Thx for posting that vacuum hose diagram, that'll be a time saver for sure...
hmm... cus my 919 has the classic burble as well... never had any issues with it but if there is room for improvement im all for it.

Now how to do this as cheaply as possible as far as tools.

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post #17 of 85 Old 09-09-2012, 02:53 AM
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Thanks bro!
I tried to do it in July, and then I thought that my FPR died because there was a failure to 3k RPM.
But yesterday, I repeated the operation, in your guide and I have achieved a good result) I love my 919.
A thousand devils!))

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post #18 of 85 Old 09-09-2012, 04:41 AM
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Thanks for the writeup! I did this today using a carbtune i bought for my old gpx. I tried this a few months back but got stuck at the sync bit. The owners manual just mentioned adjusting the throttle and thats all i did last time. It didnt seem quite right... But now that u pointed out the 7mm nuts, i've adjusted it properly and the bike idles much nicer now. Sweet!

Cant ride the 919 as earlier in the day, i used the chain press tool to push in the rivet link.. Except i pushed in a working link instead and overtightened and now its stuck

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post #19 of 85 Old 09-20-2012, 12:35 AM
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quick question. OP.

What was the max vacuum reading you were seeing. Going to buy a gauge but need to kno if its going to be able to show the vacuum properly.

also, when you removed the vacuum tubes and 5 way splitter, this obviously left the map sensor open with no vacuum source correct?

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post #20 of 85 Old 09-20-2012, 02:47 AM Thread Starter
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I think it was around 23.

Yes the map sensor is unhooked and this is why the motor runs like poop for 30 seconds or so until the ecu goes into closed loop.

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post #21 of 85 Old 09-20-2012, 09:23 AM
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^ah ok. when i get the time in the next weeks or so i will attempt to do this on the cheap (with a 13 dollar single vacuum guage) nd4 style!!! KEEP IT CHEAP!

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post #22 of 85 Old 09-20-2012, 10:27 AM Thread Starter
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This is what the gauge read...

ForumRunner_20120920_112636.jpg

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post #23 of 85 Old 06-21-2013, 01:07 PM
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Gonna bump this thread as i am going to have some free time to do spark plugs n whatnot here in the next couple of weeks.

I got to thinking about the throttle body sync.... and the sync tool needed.... then got to thinking cheap.... wtf why should i pay 100 bucks for a fancy ass tool... all i need to do is get the throttle bodies vacuum the same, i dont need measurements.

So some googling and i am going to make a diy tool similar to this

Homemade Manometer - Modifications - VFR Discussion

or this

http://www.r1-forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233550

Logic sound?

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post #24 of 85 Old 06-21-2013, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nd4spdbh View Post
Gonna bump this thread as i am going to have some free time to do spark plugs n whatnot here in the next couple of weeks.

I got to thinking about the throttle body sync.... and the sync tool needed.... then got to thinking cheap.... wtf why should i pay 100 bucks for a fancy ass tool... all i need to do is get the throttle bodies vacuum the same, i dont need measurements.

So some googling and i am going to make a diy tool similar to this

Homemade Manometer - Modifications - VFR Discussion

or this

Build your own 4 TB Manometer (Sync tool) : Yamaha R1 Forum

Logic sound?
Yup made a few of them and my bike at the time got to drink the oil in them. Hopeless and they bounce around to much to get it right. Then I bought a Carntune one from England. Perfect. Mates come round to get there bikes done on weekends. Cost them a box of beer.

Ive had my investment back many times over now.

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post #25 of 85 Old 06-21-2013, 04:14 PM
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this is why you get vacuum restrictions in the line... im gonna build one for the fun of it and the DIY cheap factor.

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post #26 of 85 Old 06-21-2013, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nd4spdbh View Post
this is why you get vacuum restrictions in the line... im gonna build one for the fun of it and the DIY cheap factor.
Yup I ran restrictions. Carbtune uses steel rods. Great tool.

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post #27 of 85 Old 06-22-2013, 10:33 AM
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Ya I'll be careful, but my setup should work rather well... 4.40 of clear tubing, 4 2 gallon per hour irrigation drippers and 2 dripper line it's that I had laying around the house - free.... Some atf fluid for measuring and walla insta cheap manometer.

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post #28 of 85 Old 06-23-2013, 05:45 PM
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Well i made my manometer.

12ft of 1/4in ID tubing
16ft of 1/8in ID tubing
$4.40

4 2gph drippers
2 dripper pipe T's
Plank
Zipties
ATF
... Free from the shed

Walla, insta home made manometer. Ill let you know how it goes, Im also thinking of jumping the fan relay so that once i get her up to operating temp i can just jump the radiator fan on so i can keep her at proper running operating temp as i dont have a movable fan i can point at the radiator.

It produces a very sensitive reading but also very acurate.... i can hold two ends closed, leave one open and suck on the final one and they all act as they should.
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post #29 of 85 Old 06-23-2013, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nd4spdbh View Post
i can hold two ends closed, leave one open and suck on the final one and they all act as they should.
TWSS

nice setup. Document your test results once in action, please

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post #30 of 85 Old 06-24-2013, 01:57 AM
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Quote:
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TWSS
Ok, I literally LOL'ed on that one....

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post #31 of 85 Old 06-24-2013, 07:52 AM
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I knew I shouldn't of said that line!!

I will definitely document my findings maybe with some video as well of the before and after.

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post #32 of 85 Old 06-24-2013, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nd4spdbh View Post
I will definitely document my findings maybe with some video as well of the before and after.
TWSS!!!

2009 Aprilia Tuono - Ginger
2001 XR650R BRP (Big Red Pig)
2006 Honda 599 - Ex wrecked it :-D
2007 Honda CB900F (sold)
2006 Honda VTX 1300C (sold)
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post #33 of 85 Old 06-24-2013, 02:02 PM
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Lol I can't win!

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post #34 of 85 Old 06-28-2013, 05:41 PM
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Well i took the time to sync the starter valves today.

I connected my home made tbody sync tool above and instantly had cylinder number one suck the fluid all the way to the top of the measuring area... so they were definitely somewhat out of sync. The tool was V E R Y sensitive. ONE click of adjustment would make a variance of 3-5inches on the respective cylinder. And just sitting there running you could have a 1.5inch delta swing between cylinders. This made it semi hard to get adjusted perfect but as you see from the picture attached i got her DAMN close especially for such a sensitive measurement gauge. (Picture was taken while running)

After effects. Positive. She seems to not have the ever so slight burble she used to always have under very light loads at low throttle openings. She idles a bit smoother doesn't lope as much during idle.


Couple of notes:

1. Plug the pair system up, the easiest way i found was to pull all 3 hoses off at the solenoid at the neck of the frame and plug them off there.

2. Use the radiator fan to keep the bike cool... go ride the bike n warm her up. Then pull the fan relay, its the one furthest forward (towards the handle bars) in the bank of 3 relays under the seat. Use a piece of wire to connect the Red/Green and Black/Blue wires. This will keep the bike at normal operating temps while it sits n idles.

3. Unplug your headlight if using tip / note 2 of the radiator fan.... at idle with the headlight on and fan going, the battery will get drained after some time... dont ask me how i know.

4. The adjuster nuts are EASY to turn with just an extension like said, and ADJUSTMENT NOTCHES ARE SMALL!!! I found that after each adjustment work the choke in and out and push it all the way back in and give her a good healthy two blips of the throttle to vibrate everything where it wants to be.

5. Because the map sensor isnt connected the bike WILL NOT IDLE for the first 10 seconds or so. So simply hold the throttle open a bit to keep her running and its VERY apparent when the ECU gives up on trying to use the map sensor and things will smooth out instantly and she will idle.
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post #35 of 85 Old 06-28-2013, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nd4spdbh View Post

5. Because the map sensor isnt connected the bike WILL NOT IDLE for the first 10 seconds or so. So simply hold the throttle open a bit to keep her running and its VERY apparent when the ECU gives up on trying to use the map sensor and things will smooth out instantly and she will idle.
DERAIL!

Coould this possibly be related to the PCIII cold start issue?

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post #36 of 85 Old 06-28-2013, 05:56 PM
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I like that! I think I'll have to make one of these too. Would you mind taking a close up shot of how they're connected at the bottom (TWSS)?

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post #37 of 85 Old 06-28-2013, 05:57 PM
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^ possible. does the pc3 piggy back off the ecu's map sensor wire?

EDIT- for niner, simply two T fittings connecting all 4 main pipes together.
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post #38 of 85 Old 06-28-2013, 06:00 PM
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I can't find the thread right now, but I remember reading somewhere on here that the ecu draws off a different set of values and sensors at idle than when the throttle is open, and they theorized that the interfacing of that map and the map of the pcIII doesn't always work the best, causing the cold start issue... I'll try to look around a little more

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post #39 of 85 Old 06-28-2013, 06:02 PM
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Or I could just g00gl3it .

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post #40 of 85 Old 06-28-2013, 06:52 PM
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Nice job n4d. I love homemade solutions like this. Bookmarked!

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