Rough idle after pair system removal - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 19 Old 08-10-2018, 06:21 PM Thread Starter
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Rough idle after pair system removal

I just did a pair valve and flapper mod, and the idle is really rough, and noisy

I left the reed valves in, just put the new plates over the top.
I also put in some Denso Iridium spark plugs while I was at it,

I remember seeing a post about cold start issues, but I can't seem to locate it,
it's not cold here, around 20 Celsius, but I though it may be a similar issue.
Has anyone had a similar issue/

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post #2 of 19 Old 08-10-2018, 07:07 PM
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What you describe doesn't sound like the cold start issue. I also don't see how the pair valve and flapper mods, if done correctly could cause a rough idle.
Did you block that vacuum tube running from the flapper valve?
Maybe the coil power supply wires are loose? Those small push on spade connectors can play up.
When you start up are all the headers warming up evenly?

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post #3 of 19 Old 08-10-2018, 07:13 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Islandboy View Post
What you describe doesn't sound like the cold start issue. I also don't see how the pair valve and flapper mods, if done correctly could cause a rough idle.
Did you block that vacuum tube running from the flapper valve?
Maybe the coil power supply wires are loose? Those small push on spade connectors can play up.
When you start up are all the headers warming up evenly?

I have redone all the spark plug to coil connectors, both ends as I thought maybe something got knocked loose..I'll go over all the connectors, as now that I think about it, I had already blocked the hoses for the pair and flapper valves before, so your right, it shouldn't make any difference.

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post #4 of 19 Old 08-10-2018, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Islandboy View Post
What you describe doesn't sound like the cold start issue. I also don't see how the pair valve and flapper mods, if done correctly could cause a rough idle.
Did you block that vacuum tube running from the flapper valve?
Maybe the coil power supply wires are loose? Those small push on spade connectors can play up.
When you start up are all the headers warming up evenly?
My thinking as well.
And if pressed to pick one as the most likely culprit, I'd pick a vacuum line leak possibly also inclusive of the air box feed to PAIR not being totally sealed off.

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post #5 of 19 Old 08-10-2018, 07:27 PM
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I'm going back to when I did mine. I remember drilling out the reed mount bolts and removing the valves. My cover plates were flat.

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post #6 of 19 Old 08-10-2018, 07:55 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
My thinking as well.
And if pressed to pick one as the most likely culprit, I'd pick a vacuum line leak possibly also inclusive of the air box feed to PAIR not being totally sealed off.
I sealed them off a few weeks ago, and have ridden it since, I blocked the hose and put the cap on the airbox that came with the plates, also sealed the flapper tube.and they are OK.
I had to remove the coil for cylinders 1 and 4 to do no. 3 spark plug, but just redid them.
I did accidentally short the battery and blew the main 30 amp fuse.
I guess I'll just go over it all again to check.
If it still does it I'll put the old plugs in and check it.
The old process of elimination ritual.

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post #7 of 19 Old 08-10-2018, 08:02 PM
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I agree that it sounds more like a vacuum leak. Do you happen to have a propane torch handy? Wave it around the area while bleeding propane with the engine running and see if the idle straightens out momentarily

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post #8 of 19 Old 08-10-2018, 08:19 PM Thread Starter
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I didn't see any point in drilling out the reed valves, they should be inactive without a vacuum, and it's such a minuscule weight saving.

Everything is sealed well, I have a tight fitting bolt in the flapper vacuum tube with a zip tie around it, and a very tight fitting cap on the air box.
It revs up OK so I'm going for a ride to see how it goes.

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post #9 of 19 Old 08-10-2018, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diablo View Post
I didn't see any point in drilling out the reed valves, they should be inactive without a vacuum, and it's such a minuscule weight saving.

Everything is sealed well, I have a tight fitting bolt in the flapper vacuum tube with a zip tie around it, and a very tight fitting cap on the air box.
It revs up OK so I'm going for a ride to see how it goes.
If it revs up fine, that tells me it's not likely a spark plug

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post #10 of 19 Old 08-10-2018, 09:15 PM
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I had to remove the reed valves. My block off plates had no recess underneath to take the head of the reed valve mount bolt/screw. The plates would have sat up and not sealed. I wasn't sure if your block off plates had the recess or not.
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post #11 of 19 Old 08-11-2018, 10:08 AM
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@Diablo how did you make out?

The suspense is killed me

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post #12 of 19 Old 08-11-2018, 01:44 PM Thread Starter
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I went for a ride and everything runs well, except for this weird clicking noise which I think is the reed valves.
One of them snapped in half while I was drilling it, so when the store opens I'll get some gasket material and put the block off plates back without the valves.
Also the bolt holding the block off plate near cylinder 3 wasn't very tight, it's hard to get at properly, so I'll use some locktite on it.

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post #13 of 19 Old 08-11-2018, 03:04 PM
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So is the idle still rough?
I never used any gasket goo. I just removed the actual reed then put that valve plate back under the block off plate. I also used Allen socket head bolts to fix block off plates.
Do you think you had a seal leak?

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post #14 of 19 Old 08-11-2018, 04:55 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Islandboy View Post
So is the idle still rough?
I never used any gasket goo. I just removed the actual reed then put that valve plate back under the block off plate. I also used Allen socket head bolts to fix block off plates.
Do you think you had a seal leak?
Yes, I think so.
I've removed the reeds and put it back together with a light smear of removable blue gasket sealant,
I also replaced that hard to get at allen key bolt with a 10mm hex and phillips head bolt from the old battery and used some blue loctite on it.
Beautiful day here today, 21 C at 10am, no wind or clouds around.
I have to test out the new suspension.
Ohlins shock at the back, and Ohlins springs, oil and valves in the front, with new bushes and all.
From my short ride yesterday it was like riding on rails and very comfortable and predictable.
Also added some HEL brakelines all round.
There is a suspension specialist in town, I think I will get them to set me up properly, and then just leave it alone.
Just found out too,there's a Dyno in town that does Power Commander 3, wonder how much that will set me back.
It's only money, just had a friend drop dead at 60, didn't drink or smoke, healthy lifestyle.WTF

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post #15 of 19 Old 08-11-2018, 05:13 PM Thread Starter
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IT"S FIXED awesome, last day of a short holiday and I finally get to enjoy the benefits of all that work, and money spent.

If you can call it a holiday, I had to go to work 3 times over the week to sort out problems, the pitfalls of being the boss.


Anyway, I don't know if the reed valves were vibrating, or if there was a slight leak, but It's all back to normal now.

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post #16 of 19 Old 08-11-2018, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diablo View Post
IT"S FIXED awesome, last day of a short holiday and I finally get to enjoy the benefits of all that work, and money spent.

If you can call it a holiday, I had to go to work 3 times over the week to sort out problems, the pitfalls of being the boss.


Anyway, I don't know if the reed valves were vibrating, or if there was a slight leak, but It's all back to normal now.

Glad to hear it.

Happy riding

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post #17 of 19 Old 08-11-2018, 07:26 PM Thread Starter
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Well I'm happy to say It's never run so smoothly, absolutely super smooth, a huge difference, more than likely that's from the Denso Iridium spark plugs, as I had already blocked the hose from the pair valves to the airbox, and blocked the vacuum hose for the flapper valve with it several weeks ago.
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post #18 of 19 Old 08-13-2018, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diablo View Post
Well I'm happy to say It's never run so smoothly, absolutely super smooth, a huge difference, more than likely that's from the Denso Iridium spark plugs, as I had already blocked the hose from the pair valves to the airbox, and blocked the vacuum hose for the flapper valve with it several weeks ago.
More than likely it's a faulty butt dyno, but glad to hear it's running well.
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post #19 of 19 Old 01-12-2019, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diablo View Post
Yes, I think so.
I've removed the reeds and put it back together with a light smear of removable blue gasket sealant,
I also replaced that hard to get at allen key bolt with a 10mm hex and phillips head bolt from the old battery and used some blue loctite on it.
Beautiful day here today, 21 C at 10am, no wind or clouds around.
I have to test out the new suspension.
Ohlins shock at the back, and Ohlins springs, oil and valves in the front, with new bushes and all.
From my short ride yesterday it was like riding on rails and very comfortable and predictable.
Also added some HEL brakelines all round.
There is a suspension specialist in town, I think I will get them to set me up properly, and then just leave it alone.
Just found out too,there's a Dyno in town that does Power Commander 3, wonder how much that will set me back.
It's only money, just had a friend drop dead at 60, didn't drink or smoke, healthy lifestyle.WTF

What valves did you put in the forks?
TIA

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