Rotella users beware! - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 52 Old 02-23-2016, 04:40 PM Thread Starter
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Rotella users beware!

They are reformulating oils, our beloved cheap oil may lose its JASO-MA certification

What is PC-11? By Shell ROTELLA

Credit to this guy...appears he has inside knowledge.

Rotella fans watch out - TWT Forums

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post #2 of 52 Old 02-23-2016, 05:11 PM
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So.. there will be friction modifiers in the pc11b oil but not the pc11a. Might be time to stick a few gallons of the stuff on shelves now.

Also someone mentioned an $8 gallon deal for moto syn Castrol on Amazon.

My classified(s):
Nothing at the moment

----------------
------------
---------
------
---
- '96 Race-retired GSXR 750 (Sold)
- '01 RC51 SP1 (Sold)
- '03 919

"Security is mostly a superstition, it does not exist in nature: avoiding danger in the long run is no safer than outright being exposed. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."-Helen Keller
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post #3 of 52 Old 02-23-2016, 05:24 PM
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I'm gonna switch to WD-40

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post #4 of 52 Old 02-23-2016, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewebay1 View Post
So.. there will be friction modifiers in the pc11b oil but not the pc11a. Might be time to stick a few gallons of the stuff on shelves now.

Also someone mentioned an $8 gallon deal for moto syn Castrol on Amazon.
$8 a quart

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post #5 of 52 Old 02-23-2016, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redline919 View Post

$8 a quart
Ah damn, never mind. I'm gonna go buy 3-4 gallons of Delvac synthetic and just keep em in the garage.

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----------------
------------
---------
------
---
- '96 Race-retired GSXR 750 (Sold)
- '01 RC51 SP1 (Sold)
- '03 919

"Security is mostly a superstition, it does not exist in nature: avoiding danger in the long run is no safer than outright being exposed. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."-Helen Keller
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post #6 of 52 Old 02-23-2016, 08:37 PM
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Nooooooo

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post #7 of 52 Old 02-23-2016, 09:20 PM
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So far, the 5W40 T6 up here is still showing the JASO-MA label
BUT
The newer 0W40 T6 does not.

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post #8 of 52 Old 02-24-2016, 06:08 AM
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post #9 of 52 Old 02-24-2016, 08:36 AM
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Well huh... I just bought 3 gallons of T6 off Amazon figuring I'd finally make the switch over to Rotella.

Do we know when the switch over is going to take place? I find it hard to believe that they would just pull the JASO-MA cert without any sort of disclaimer.



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post #10 of 52 Old 02-24-2016, 12:02 PM
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According to the video "late 2016". So, buy up before August to be safe? Also the forum link on the first post has some people posting "experimental oil" labels in drums, I take it they're the final test run on the oils.

Edit: $21 for t6 on Amazon with shipping is a great price.

My classified(s):
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----------------
------------
---------
------
---
- '96 Race-retired GSXR 750 (Sold)
- '01 RC51 SP1 (Sold)
- '03 919

"Security is mostly a superstition, it does not exist in nature: avoiding danger in the long run is no safer than outright being exposed. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."-Helen Keller
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post #11 of 52 Old 02-24-2016, 12:17 PM
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I've liked the money saved going to Rotella but this may just be the push I need to go back to Amsoil. Prefer it over everything else because to me it makes the 919 engine/clutch feel smoother and stronger longer.... in DFW the nearest one is a 30 minute drive (with traffic).
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post #12 of 52 Old 03-28-2016, 09:47 PM
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Thanks, Beef. I'm going to buy a few jugs. I use Rotella in the dirtbikes because I change oil a lot. It also gets used in the pressure washer, push mower, and lawn tractor. Haven't gotten brave enough to put it in the street bikes tho.

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post #13 of 52 Old 03-28-2016, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
I've liked the money saved going to Rotella but this may just be the push I need to go back to Amsoil. Prefer it over everything else because to me it makes the 919 engine/clutch feel smoother and stronger longer.... in DFW the nearest one is a 30 minute drive (with traffic).
You need to try Mobil 1 Delvac Syn, smooth butter shifting

My classified(s):
Nothing at the moment

----------------
------------
---------
------
---
- '96 Race-retired GSXR 750 (Sold)
- '01 RC51 SP1 (Sold)
- '03 919

"Security is mostly a superstition, it does not exist in nature: avoiding danger in the long run is no safer than outright being exposed. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."-Helen Keller
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post #14 of 52 Old 03-29-2016, 08:37 AM
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Guess I will have to switch too. Thankfully a buddy deals Amsoil

07' 919 - In Progress

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post #15 of 52 Old 03-29-2016, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewebay1 View Post
You need to try Mobil 1 Delvac Syn, smooth butter shifting
Price? Link to where I can get it online? Local shop only sells Bel-Ray...



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post #16 of 52 Old 03-29-2016, 09:31 AM
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Rebate for Mobil Delvac for Big Rigs?

https://mobiloil.com/en/promotion/mo...h-mobil-delvac

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post #17 of 52 Old 03-29-2016, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BKRMON View Post
Rebate for Mobil Delvac for Big Rigs?

https://mobiloil.com/en/promotion/mo...h-mobil-delvac
I think these may have friction modifiers. I looked up LE and it says for modern diesel engines with a mention of fuel economy. The esp is a fully synthetic version but also mentions fuel mileage.

The Delvac I've been using doesn't say esp or le, it's a blue bottle and just says Mobil 1 Delvac Synthetic 5w-40

My classified(s):
Nothing at the moment

----------------
------------
---------
------
---
- '96 Race-retired GSXR 750 (Sold)
- '01 RC51 SP1 (Sold)
- '03 919

"Security is mostly a superstition, it does not exist in nature: avoiding danger in the long run is no safer than outright being exposed. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."-Helen Keller
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post #18 of 52 Old 03-29-2016, 11:48 AM
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I just re-read it so since they say late 2016 I am going to go out and get a few gallons of Rotella before it switches.

07' 919 - In Progress

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post #19 of 52 Old 04-17-2016, 05:39 PM
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The U.S. equivalent to JASO MA is anything SG or higher without energy conserving. I have found from browsing the oil shelves at the parts stores, that any 10w-40 motor oil does not contain energy conserving on the API Donut label.

I use Mobil one High mileage 10w-30, because one the service manual and owners manual recommend 10w-30 and two the high mileage Mobile One is the only 10w-30 I can find that is SG or higher without energy conserving on the API Label. I also figured that my bike had done more sitting than being ridden for most of its life, it could benefit from some high mileage oil. Of course that was my call.

I have used Mobil One motorcycle specifically formulated oil, but have found that it doesn't hold up as well as the Mobile One High mileage oil. I can feel the difference in how easily the transmission shifts. With that being said, I regard the API Label as very important. Since the Mobile One High mileage oil bottle contains the label and the Mobil one Motorcycle specific oil does not contain the API label any where on the bottle .

Motor oil use is a very touchy subject, because everyone will have their objections and differences in opinion. So, to each their own, My self, personally have used the Rotella motor oil and the only pro I can see to using it was the price.

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post #20 of 52 Old 04-17-2016, 05:53 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainchadl View Post
because one the service manual and owners manual recommend 10w-30
If your service manual shows 10W-30, I'd love to see it.

I'm staring at the FSM right now, and I will quote the entire section of "recommended engine oil" for giggles.

"Pro Honda GN4 or HP4 (without molybdenum additives) 4-stroke oil (USA & Canada), or Honda 4-stroke oil (Canada only), or an equivalent motor oil API service classification SG or Higher expect oils labeled as energy conserving on the API service label.
JASO T903 standard MA
Viscosity: SAE 10W-40"

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post #21 of 52 Old 04-17-2016, 06:16 PM
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If your service manual shows 10W-30, I'd love to see it.
Give me a moment and I will show you.

As for as viscosity goes and climate. The bike is liquid cooled, so even if you are ridding in the middle of death valley, the cooling system will not allow it to get over a certain temperature. I am sure the engineers at Honda thought of this when the recommendation was made Unless something in the cooling system fails.

Now my dirt bike is a different story. My dirt bike is air cooled, so it's temperature will vary greatly depending on the current outside temperature.

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post #22 of 52 Old 04-17-2016, 06:19 PM
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post #23 of 52 Old 04-17-2016, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainchadl View Post
That may be the most delightfully passive aggressive thing I've ever seen
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post #24 of 52 Old 04-17-2016, 07:55 PM Thread Starter
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That may be the most delightfully passive aggressive thing I've ever seen
That is actually exactly what i wanted, although a picture would have sufficed. Looking at the front page of the PDF I have It does not show "2002-2007", so it would appear Honda has made a change in the service manual at some point. Thanks Chad! Now I'm in an oil argument with myself over which viscosity I should use. Digging further into the PDF, on page 3-12, there is a table showing oils ranging from 10-30 to 20-50. I wonder what happened to cause them to change the book.

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post #25 of 52 Old 04-17-2016, 08:11 PM
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That is actually exactly what i wanted, although a picture would have sufficed. Looking at the front page of the PDF I have It does not show "2002-2007", so it would appear Honda has made a change in the service manual at some point. Thanks Chad! Now I'm in an oil argument with myself over which viscosity I should use.
It is no problem. In case you wanted to know; my service manual is the latest Model number. "Date of Issue: March 2006. ; Model number: 61MCZ05."

As far as the argument with yourself goes, I am sure you can battle it out on your own.

However, I will throw this in. A thicker oil will create a larger pressure difference between the input and output of the oil filter, causing the bypass valve in the oil filter to open more often or even stay open. That all depends on the pressure setting for the particular oil filter you use and how much harder it is for the thicker oil to flow through the filter media.

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post #26 of 52 Old 04-17-2016, 11:41 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by captainchadl View Post
It is no problem. In case you wanted to know; my service manual is the latest Model number. "Date of Issue: March 2006. ; Model number: 61MCZ05."

As far as the argument with yourself goes, I am sure you can battle it out on your own.

However, I will throw this in. A thicker oil will create a larger pressure difference between the input and output of the oil filter, causing the bypass valve in the oil filter to open more often or even stay open. That all depends on the pressure setting for the particular oil filter you use and how much harder it is for the thicker oil to flow through the filter media.
Sounds like the filters problem to me.

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post #27 of 52 Old 04-18-2016, 04:53 AM
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Could the difference be Canada vs USA?

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post #28 of 52 Old 04-18-2016, 08:33 AM
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post #29 of 52 Old 04-18-2016, 08:49 AM
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Why don't we all just stick with Mobil 1 for morotcycles? Best oil on the market for our bikes. Boy. That ought to get the discussion started...
Check this article written by a really smart guy some years ago: Business Management Services - Our Recommended Products

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post #30 of 52 Old 04-18-2016, 09:06 AM
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Sure, run a xW-30, be it 0, 5 or 10.
If you want to, that is.
For light duty use in non high ambient temperature use.
Just like some of the car manufacturer's that have been calling out xW-20 instead of xW-30 for a few years now.
And some also dropping transaxle viscosity grades down a step.
But purely for fuel economy reasons and not maximized engine life considerations, which is adversely affected by the use of xW-20s. (way beyond the warranty period though, i.e. don't expect 300,000 mile no touch engines from the use ofxW-20s)
Last point, my assumption is that the rod big ends and the mains clearancing of the 919 engine were primarily driven by the viscosity of xW-40 oil at operating temperature.

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post #31 of 52 Old 04-18-2016, 12:44 PM
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Why don't we all just stick with Mobil 1 for morotcycles? Best oil on the market for our bikes. Boy. That ought to get the discussion started...
Yeah, you should get some disagreement with that statement.

Mobil 1 is not near what it once was. After they lost their lawsuit against Castrol, they started using group III base stock in many of their different flavors, too. In my book that is not true synthetic regardless of what the industry is calling it.

Then again, these days there are so many recipes blending a group II or III with a group IV or V. Who knows. I like to check in with Bob for an update every now & then.

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post #32 of 52 Old 04-18-2016, 02:57 PM
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Yeah, you should get some disagreement with that statement.

Mobil 1 is not near what it once was. After they lost their lawsuit against Castrol, they started using group III base stock in many of their different flavors, too. In my book that is not true synthetic regardless of what the industry is calling it.

Then again, these days there are so many recipes blending a group II or III with a group IV or V. Who knows. I like to check in with Bob for an update every now & then.

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Mobil 1 is a pain to pick.
The list of M1s is so long nowadays.
To best pic, you really need to spend time looking at the specs.

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post #33 of 52 Old 04-18-2016, 10:03 PM
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Cheaper oil change more often is worth way more than expensive oil changed at recommended intervals
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post #34 of 52 Old 04-27-2016, 03:27 PM
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Just picked up 2 jugs of Rotella today still has the JASO very on it.

07' 919 - In Progress

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post #35 of 52 Old 04-27-2016, 03:38 PM
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I have an extra gallon of T6 "jaso ma" just hanging around in my garage.
If anyone locally wants it (Edmonton Alberta), they are welcome to it. I did the switch to amsoil already. I somehow forgot I had this.
Pm me of you wanna come get it.

Arte et Marte
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post #36 of 52 Old 04-27-2016, 07:44 PM
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I cant trust my oil anymore its being waterboarded in guantanamo to determine its true viscosity and what else it *might* be up to by Dick Cheney.
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post #37 of 52 Old 07-29-2016, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainchadl View Post
The U.S. equivalent to JASO MA is anything SG or higher without energy conserving. I have found from browsing the oil shelves at the parts stores, that any 10w-40 motor oil does not contain energy conserving on the API Donut label.

I use Mobil one High mileage 10w-30, because one the service manual and owners manual recommend 10w-30 and two the high mileage Mobile One is the only 10w-30 I can find that is SG or higher without energy conserving on the API Label. I also figured that my bike had done more sitting than being ridden for most of its life, it could benefit from some high mileage oil. Of course that was my call.

I have used Mobil One motorcycle specifically formulated oil, but have found that it doesn't hold up as well as the Mobile One High mileage oil. I can feel the difference in how easily the transmission shifts. With that being said, I regard the API Label as very important. Since the Mobile One High mileage oil bottle contains the label and the Mobil one Motorcycle specific oil does not contain the API label any where on the bottle .

Motor oil use is a very touchy subject, because everyone will have their objections and differences in opinion. So, to each their own, My self, personally have used the Rotella motor oil and the only pro I can see to using it was the price.
How often are you changing the 'High Mileage' oil in the 919? Every 8K as the manual states or more frequent?

¤¤ Tom

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post #38 of 52 Old 10-29-2016, 12:49 PM Thread Starter
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Went to Napa today, as they showed the good ole dino rotella on sale. Walked around to find lack of stock. Asked the guys at the front counter and he said "The T4 is the same thing, we order the T, they send us the T4." So I grabbed a bottle. JASO-MA and JASO-MA2. Thanks Rotella! (FYI on sale $13/gal at NAPA)

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post #39 of 52 Old 10-30-2016, 12:41 PM
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Yeah I was reading in TWT last month one of the guys was saying that the new formulations where being rated for JASO-MA and JASO-MA2. No idea if it was just an oversight not being mentioned previously or because of grumblings from the motorcycle community.

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post #40 of 52 Old 12-10-2016, 11:27 PM
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The jug of T6 I bought at Wally World today in the fancy new container says it meets the requirements of JASO-MA/MA2 on the back label


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