Reverse Brake Bleeding - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 36 Old 10-14-2013, 04:46 PM Thread Starter
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Reverse Brake Bleeding

Couldn't find a specific thread on here (one that was recent, anyway) on this subject, but here's a video I made of reverse bleeding the rear caliper on my Tuono.

I've done this on the 919 and 599, as well as an SV650, XR600, Tuono etc. Works great on all of them.

Thoughts? Someone might have some better ideas, but for a one-man job, this is the easiest way to do it without buying a lot of tools.

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post #2 of 36 Old 10-14-2013, 04:54 PM Thread Starter
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Yes, I talk a lot. NO, PV, I did NOT do subtitles. I talk too much and it takes too much dang time!!! :-D

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post #3 of 36 Old 10-14-2013, 05:21 PM
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Speed Bleeders, one man operation


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post #4 of 36 Old 10-14-2013, 05:25 PM
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More of a mad scientist method than administering drugs. Thanks for the post. I'll be trying this out.
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post #5 of 36 Old 10-14-2013, 05:26 PM
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I do mine conventionally with a cheap HF vacuum bleeder. Never had an issue, but reverse works as well & can be less messy.

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post #6 of 36 Old 10-14-2013, 05:29 PM
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Pretty cool method and nice vid.

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post #7 of 36 Old 10-14-2013, 05:51 PM
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yeah its my prefered method of bleeding brakes. I always will put some teflon tape on the bleeder so no air / fluid can leak through the threads.

This method makes bleeding the front brake on a dirbike a cake walk... as opposed to pump pump pump pump.... pushing an air bubble down 4 feet of vertical line is almost impossible.

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post #8 of 36 Old 10-14-2013, 06:05 PM
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Twelve minutes of chit-chat and foreplay with your hand before the part where the pumping and sucking action happens. Sheesh. Ron Jeremy has nothing to worry about.


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post #9 of 36 Old 10-14-2013, 06:07 PM
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post #10 of 36 Old 10-14-2013, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voodooridr View Post
Speed Bleeders, one man operation
+1. Squeeze squeeze squeeze, squirt squirt squirt in a pouch

I buy extra fluid and run through a reservoirs worth several times to clean out the old junk and lines.

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post #11 of 36 Old 10-14-2013, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewebay1 View Post
+1. Squeeze squeeze squeeze, squirt squirt squirt in a pouch
Sounds like Trojan commercial

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post #12 of 36 Old 10-14-2013, 08:05 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voodooridr View Post
Speed Bleeders, one man operation
True, but you still can only bleed in one direction - DOWN. Which doesn't always get rid of all the bubbles. And it still takes longer - if I wasn't doing video, I can bleed a rear brake in 5 minutes.

Does anyone make a 'reverse' bleed speed bleeder?

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post #13 of 36 Old 10-14-2013, 08:51 PM
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Two things. One, where do you get syringes? And two, I'm guessing this wouldn't work with speed bleeders installed as the pressure is going the wrong way?

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post #14 of 36 Old 10-14-2013, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badmoon692008 View Post
Two things. One, where do you get syringes? And two, I'm guessing this wouldn't work with speed bleeders installed as the pressure is going the wrong way?
ebay is your friend for stuff like syringes.

will not work with speed bleeders installed... never liked speed bleeders either as once you crack the bleeder open air can get sucked in through the threads of the bleeder itself.

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post #15 of 36 Old 10-14-2013, 09:09 PM Thread Starter
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I got the syringes from when my wife was in the hospital. They gave us a bunch.

Gave the needles the kids to play with. :-D

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post #16 of 36 Old 10-14-2013, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g00gl3it View Post
I got the syringes from when my wife was in the hospital. They gave us a bunch. Gave the needles the kids to play with. :-D
lol,of coarse of coarse...great video,I am going to help a friend bleed the clutch on his intruder tomorrow i will try your method ,thanks for the advise

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post #17 of 36 Old 10-15-2013, 04:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badmoon692008 View Post
Two things. One, where do you get syringes? And two, I'm guessing this wouldn't work with speed bleeders installed as the pressure is going the wrong way?
If you have a Tractor Supply nearby, they have a large variety of syringes (for vet use). I use them for lubing cables.

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post #18 of 36 Old 10-15-2013, 08:50 AM
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Syringes can be found at pet stores -- they are used to feed baby birds.

There is a method I have used for years that is the cleanest and quickest way I have ever heard of to bleed brakes, and doesn't require opening any bleed fittings: apply a vacuum to the top of the reservoir using a clear plastic plate with a strip of adhesive backed foam weatherstrip stuck to it to seal against the lip of the reservoir. Any air expands tremendously and follows its nature -- it rises. I can go from an empty motorcycle brake system to fully bled in less than 2 minutes.

In fact, I shocked a group of Honda engineers by starting with a completely dry system on an ABS equipped Accord (The owner thought it would be a good idea to top up his brake fluid with power steering fluid. It took out every piece of rubber in the system). After replacing practically the entire system I used a Vacula (air pressure powered vacuum pump) to bleed it out and had it completely bled in less than 10 minutes. The "normal" way takes two people, at least three cans of fluid, and about an hour. I also use this method to bench bleed master cylinders.

Another advantage is you don't have to buy any tools if you own a car: just tap into any source of manifold vacuum, run a lengthy hose to a catch bottle, and from the other fitting on the bottle to the top of the reservoir. The catch bottle can be made from any glass jar with a metal lid, and is there to prevent brake fluid from entering the car's engine.

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post #19 of 36 Old 10-15-2013, 09:18 AM Thread Starter
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So just to further clarify, Rob, you add a bit of fluid to the reservoir, then seal it and apply vacuum? Assuming that you are pulling the air from the bottom of the caliper and then do you release the vacuum temporarily to allow fluid to draw in below, or are you still supplying fluid at the bleed nipple on the caliper?

Sounds like a very efficient way as well - I have one of the cheap venturi type vacuum pumps that hook into the air compressor. That might work.

I'm assuming you have to keep your vacuum line above the fluid so as to not suck up fluid, right? And how much vacuum are you using?

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post #20 of 36 Old 10-15-2013, 09:33 AM
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Here is a more complete description of my bleeding method: https://www.wristtwisters.com/forums/...nes-10307.html Go to post #10. I'm too lazy to type it all out again!

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post #21 of 36 Old 10-15-2013, 10:07 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks Rob! I knew there were some good threads around, I did some searches for "Bleed - reverse" etc. but couldn't find much.

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post #22 of 36 Old 10-15-2013, 10:12 AM Thread Starter
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Quoting Rob from that thread:

Quote:
For years, I have been using this method of bleeding brakes on motorcycles and cars, and it has always worked well, even when starting with a dry system. It is very effective when replacing lines with braided, wastes practically no fluid, and takes (once you make the adapter needed) about 2 minutes.
You will need a Mightyvac or some other controllable vacuum source and a clear plexiglass or Lexan plate large enough to cover the top of the reservoir. Contact cement a piece of inner tube rubber (you remember inner tubes?) to the plate to provide a seal against the reservoir, remembering to leave some clear exposed so you can see what's going on. Drill and tap (or glue, use a gun drilled bolt and nut, whatever, as long as it seals) for a fitting to attach the vacuum hose, and thoroughly clean and dry everything.
1 -- If replacing the lines, drain the fluid, install the lines, and make sure they are routed and tightened properly.
2 -- Clean the master cylinder reservoir and fill about 2/3 with fresh fluid.
3 -- Place the plate on top of the reservoir and secure with some wire -- not too tightly, just to hold it in place.
4 -- Apply a vacuum to the system slowly. You will see air bubbling through the fluid, but the level should not drop much. Stop as soon as you have applied as much vacuum as you can -- it does not need a "hard" vacuum, about 23 inches HG should be sufficient.
5 -- Release the vacuum. The fluid level should drop significantly, in fact the first time it may empty the reservoir.
6 -- Refill the reservoir and repeat steps 3 through 5.
7 -- By the third cycle, you should not see any air bubbles.
8 -- Refill the reservoir again and pump up the brakes -- the vacuum usually retracts the pistons completely. Top up the reservoir, apply the brakes as hard as you usually do, and check for leaks. You should have as firm a lever as you have ever felt!
Notes:
-- If the master cylinder is angled down, it helps to get it as close to horizontal as possible to give air an easier escape route.
-- Sometims, fluid will be drawn up the vacuum hose, so make sure it does not get into the pump by using a long downward "U" loop of hose.
-- If and when you try this, post the results, especially if you have problems -- some calipers, Brembos particularly, can be very difficult to remove air from.

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post #23 of 36 Old 10-15-2013, 10:13 AM Thread Starter
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I guess the only hard part about that procedure is I have so many bikes, and probably 5 or 6 different sizes (and shapes) of reservoirs. I'd have to build a reservoir cap for each size/shape. But, once that is done, easy peasy!

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post #24 of 36 Old 10-15-2013, 12:49 PM
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Or just make a big one that would fit all of them... It just needs to be a piece with something to seal on the bottom

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post #25 of 36 Old 10-15-2013, 02:55 PM
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Damn app double post!

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post #26 of 36 Old 10-15-2013, 05:41 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badmoon692008 View Post
Or just make a big one that would fit all of them... It just needs to be a piece with something to seal on the bottom
Maybe one round piece and one square. The square one wouldn't fit the Tuono rear reservoir as it's really close to the frame.

...on my Droid.

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post #27 of 36 Old 10-15-2013, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
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Maybe one round piece and one square. The square one wouldn't fit the Tuono rear reservoir as it's really close to the frame.

...on my Droid.
Could you just buy spare reservoir covers for cheap and drill a hole to attach the vacuum line?

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post #28 of 36 Old 10-15-2013, 07:27 PM
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So Google, at 7:46 you "pulled out the nipple...then screwed it...and then tugged on it and couldn't get it out? "

TWSS


And hey, your bike is filthy, give that thing a wash!

Just kidding my friend!! Great vid! I've never done this, I'll give it a shot when I put ion the SS lines in this winter.

And syringes can be found at any pharmacy or pet store. The pharmacy by me usually gives me a couple for free if I ask at the counter.

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post #29 of 36 Old 10-15-2013, 08:07 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvster View Post
Could you just buy spare reservoir covers for cheap and drill a hole to attach the vacuum line?
That requires money - think of all the riding I could do on that gas money saved!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by That One Guy View Post
So Google, at 7:46 you "pulled out the nipple...then screwed it...and then tugged on it and couldn't get it out? "

TWSS


And hey, your bike is filthy, give that thing a wash!

Just kidding my friend!! Great vid! I've never done this, I'll give it a shot when I put ion the SS lines in this winter.

And syringes can be found at any pharmacy or pet store. The pharmacy by me usually gives me a couple for free if I ask at the counter.
No sense in washing it if I never get to ride it (TWSS?). Let me know how it goes, I've got it down to a personal science and am not nervous to do it anymore like I was the first time (AWSS??).

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post #30 of 36 Old 10-15-2013, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvster View Post
Could you just buy spare reservoir covers for cheap and drill a hole to attach the vacuum line?
My bike came with a new cover with 919 in chrome on top, so I think I'm gonna drill a hole in the old one and use it for this...

Love is the feeling you get when you like something as much as your motorcycle - Hunter S. Thompson
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Quote:
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That requires money - think of all the riding I could do on that gas money saved!!!



my kinda thinking!!!

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post #32 of 36 Old 10-16-2013, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvster View Post
Could you just buy spare reservoir covers for cheap and drill a hole to attach the vacuum line?
The problem with that is the caps hold a separator diaphragm, the top of which is necessarily vented to allow the diaphragm to move down to compensate for fluid displaced into the system. In order to make this work the diaphragm will have to be cut away leaving only the sealing surface, and any vent passages filled in to maintain a tight seal. It is possible, but the sealed clear plate is easier and much less expensive.

Rob

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post #33 of 36 Old 10-16-2013, 10:21 AM
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post #34 of 36 Old 12-11-2013, 12:18 PM
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so I just bought a new (to me) car and everything is spongy. Would reverse bleeding cause any problems with ABS or a clutch master cylinder? I've never had anything with a hydraulic clutch, so my knowledge on them is low, but I'm assuming it's similar if not the same to a brake system?

Love is the feeling you get when you like something as much as your motorcycle - Hunter S. Thompson
I just mı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨ade you wipe your screen.
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-2007 Honda 919
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post #35 of 36 Old 12-11-2013, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badmoon692008 View Post
so I just bought a new (to me) car and everything is spongy. Would reverse bleeding cause any problems with ABS or a clutch master cylinder? I've never had anything with a hydraulic clutch, so my knowledge on them is low, but I'm assuming it's similar if not the same to a brake system?
I wouldn't reverse bleed abs brakes, you will push/pull dirty fluid through the abs pump.

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post #36 of 36 Old 12-11-2013, 01:06 PM
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Second what RMB said. Also, yes, bleeding a hydro clutch is just like bleeding brakes.

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