Quick help please - Wrist Twisters
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 13 Old 03-01-2014, 05:16 PM Thread Starter
The Cripple
 
Pvster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 8,770
Rep Power: 1
 
Quick help please

I'm replacing my chain and sprocket and ran into a little snag. I noticed the new 17t aluminum sprocket has spacers on both sides, 1 being a little thicker than the other. I had planned on flipping the sprocket both directions to see which side was right before linking the chain. Sadly, I forgot to do so and already pressed on the plate. I haven't done the rivets yet but I can't separate the plates. I also can't seem to flip the sprocket either since there's not enough room to work with.

I tried to take off the side frame which would give me more access but the damn thing is not budging. I took off both bolts and there's no reason why it shouldn't come off, but it's not. I cannot find anything in the manual about how to take that piece off either.

So, can anyone chime in and either tell me how to take off the side frame piece or tell me which side the front sprocket spacer is supposed to be please?

Pvster is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 13 Old 03-01-2014, 05:38 PM
McTavish
 
mcromo44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,804
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvster View Post
I'm replacing my chain and sprocket and ran into a little snag. I noticed the new 17t aluminum sprocket has spacers on both sides, 1 being a little thicker than the other. I had planned on flipping the sprocket both directions to see which side was right before linking the chain. Sadly, I forgot to do so and already pressed on the plate. I haven't done the rivets yet but I can't separate the plates. I also can't seem to flip the sprocket either since there's not enough room to work with.

I tried to take off the side frame which would give me more access but the damn thing is not budging. I took off both bolts and there's no reason why it shouldn't come off, but it's not. I cannot find anything in the manual about how to take that piece off either.

So, can anyone chime in and either tell me how to take off the side frame piece or tell me which side the front sprocket spacer is supposed to be please?
Hi, how are you today ?
Been a while, aye ?
Can't say about which shim spacer where, but as far as the side plate is concerned, you forgot about the swing arm pin.
The pin goes in from the left.
You want to the left side plate off.
Remove rear wheel, you should not have that weight on for what follows.
Pop off the black plugs.
Remove nut on right side.
Drift out the pin.
Remove the swing arm.
Back to the shim washers.
Are you using 530 or narrower ?
If narrower, my guess is that differential shims are to allow centreing the front teeth the rear, not knowing how the rear was machined, as in to maintain the original tooth centreline position, or inside face of tooth ring in original plane in which case the tooth centreline would be moved in a bit, in which case my guess is the thicker front shim would be outboard.

mcromo44 is offline  
post #3 of 13 Old 03-01-2014, 05:47 PM Thread Starter
The Cripple
 
Pvster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 8,770
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
Hi, how are you today ?
Are you using 530 or narrower ?
If narrower, my guess is that differential shims are to allow centreing the front teeth the rear, not knowing how the rear was machined, as in to maintain the original tooth centreline position, or inside face of tooth ring in original plane in which case the tooth centreline would be moved in a bit, in which case my guess is the thicker front shim would be outboard.
Hey dude, I'm good and you? Thanks for the response!

I'm going from the 530 to the 520 chain which will be a bit more narrower. I currently have the thicker shim on the outside of the sprocket, so that's good to know! Makes sense that the front sprocket would need to move in a tad to match the rear sprocket.

As for the swing arm bolt, damn! I thought that passed through but was wrong clearly, lol!

Thanks so much for the response. I should be ok now.

Pvster is offline  
 
post #4 of 13 Old 03-01-2014, 05:47 PM
Canadian Blue
 
Mark919's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Detroit Suburbs
Posts: 386
Rep Power: 1
 
Garage

Awards Showcase
Donation Donation 
Total Awards: 2

I looked at a 17 tooth steel AFRAM sprocket. The hub thickness measures .675" and is centered (side to side). No spacers obviously. I can't imagine why an aluminum sprocket would not also have the chain teeth centered.

Edit... Ok now i get it.

Mark919 is offline  
post #5 of 13 Old 03-01-2014, 06:01 PM
McTavish
 
mcromo44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,804
Rep Power: 1
 
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvster View Post
Hey dude, I'm good and you? Thanks for the response!

I'm going from the 530 to the 520 chain which will be a bit more narrower. I currently have the thicker shim on the outside of the sprocket, so that's good to know! Makes sense that the front sprocket would need to move in a tad to match the rear sprocket.

As for the swing arm bolt, damn! I thought that passed through but was wrong clearly, lol!

Thanks so much for the response. I should be ok now.
Excellent !
Back to DefCon 0, eh ?

mcromo44 is offline  
post #6 of 13 Old 03-01-2014, 08:19 PM
Community Moderator
 
g00gl3it's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,616
Rep Power: 1
  

Awards Showcase
Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Wrist Twisters Event Attendance 
Total Awards: 3

FYI, you don't have to drift the whole pin out - just knock it out like Mcromo said, but as you drift it out, replace it with a cheater bar or some other pin, just enough to keep the right side still connected but it will drop the left side. Just enough to move that chain off.

I had to do the same thing once, and doing it this way prevented the entire swingarm removal.

2009 Aprilia Tuono - Ginger
2001 XR650R BRP (Big Red Pig)
2006 Honda 599 - Ex wrecked it :-D
2007 Honda CB900F (sold)
2006 Honda VTX 1300C (sold)
YouTube Channel
g00gl3it is offline  
post #7 of 13 Old 03-01-2014, 09:35 PM
Discen
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Spring Hill, TN
Posts: 203
Rep Power: 1
 
If you have a spare front axle, it is the exact same side as the swing arm bolt. You can push it in from the right side and it will keep it all perfectly aligned. Others have used a long socket extension.

robroten is offline  
post #8 of 13 Old 03-02-2014, 01:48 AM
Old, Bold rider
 
robtharalson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Aurora, Colorado
Posts: 2,382
Rep Power: 1
 
Garage

Awards Showcase
Donation Veteran Community Leadership 
Total Awards: 3

Are you sure about the material of the countershaft sprocket? I ask because the front sprocket is under a considerable load and aluminum could not be expected to last very long under pretty much any conditions, much less a track day.

If you are unsure which way the sprocket should be mounted but already have the whole kit installed and are sure of the alignment of the rear wheel all you need to do is get the rear wheel off the ground and spin it by hand while watching the run of the chain on the rear sprocket -- if it maintains an even center on the sprocket teeth you can be reasonably sure the front sprocket is correctly installed. If, on the other hand, the inner side plates of the chain are contacting the inside surface of the rear sprocket teeth or the chain is noisy it indicates a misaligned chain and the front sprocket will have to be flipped.

As to the left side plate removal: it is retained by the two 10mm bolts and the pivot axle as has already been stated, but when doing this I strongly recommend a change in the direction the pivot axle is installed. It is easiest to do by removing the rear wheel and swingarm pivot axle and immediately reinserting the pivot from the right side. This makes chain maintenance / replacement / whatever much easier by facilitating removing the left side plate -- with two bolts and the pivot nut off the plate can be slid off without disturbing anything else, in fact the peg mount or shift linkage do not have to be unbolted and the whole assembly can be dropped the ground intact. I did this the first time I had the swingarm off for cleaning and am sure glad I did!

Rob

If it has already been done, it is safe to assume it is possible to do it.
On the other hand, if it has not been done never assume it is impossible to do it.
------- Rob --------
robtharalson is offline  
post #9 of 13 Old 03-02-2014, 07:59 AM
McTavish
 
mcromo44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,804
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by robtharalson View Post
Are you sure about the material of the countershaft sprocket? I ask because the front sprocket is under a considerable load and aluminum could not be expected to last very long under pretty much any conditions, much less a track day.

If you are unsure which way the sprocket should be mounted but already have the whole kit installed and are sure of the alignment of the rear wheel all you need to do is get the rear wheel off the ground and spin it by hand while watching the run of the chain on the rear sprocket -- if it maintains an even center on the sprocket teeth you can be reasonably sure the front sprocket is correctly installed. If, on the other hand, the inner side plates of the chain are contacting the inside surface of the rear sprocket teeth or the chain is noisy it indicates a misaligned chain and the front sprocket will have to be flipped.

As to the left side plate removal: it is retained by the two 10mm bolts and the pivot axle as has already been stated, but when doing this I strongly recommend a change in the direction the pivot axle is installed. It is easiest to do by removing the rear wheel and swingarm pivot axle and immediately reinserting the pivot from the right side. This makes chain maintenance / replacement / whatever much easier by facilitating removing the left side plate -- with two bolts and the pivot nut off the plate can be slid off without disturbing anything else, in fact the peg mount or shift linkage do not have to be unbolted and the whole assembly can be dropped the ground intact. I did this the first time I had the swingarm off for cleaning and am sure glad I did!

Rob
Rob, Flipping the pin is simply too much common sense. I had a real "Doh" moment when I read that. Next time I have the pin out, it will be getting flipped.

mcromo44 is offline  
post #10 of 13 Old 03-02-2014, 08:00 AM
McTavish
 
mcromo44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,804
Rep Power: 1
 
I very much doubt the front that Pv has is aluminum.
My guess is that it's a coated steel item.

mcromo44 is offline  
post #11 of 13 Old 03-02-2014, 01:12 PM Thread Starter
The Cripple
 
Pvster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 8,770
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
I very much doubt the front that Pv has is aluminum.
My guess is that it's a coated steel item.
Rob, I had planned on flipping the Swingarm pivot bolt when I serviced the swingarm but while putting it back together I forgot (stress from school I guess) and am waiting until the next interval before flipping the axle. Yes it will make life so much easier.

As to the sprockets, I assumed they were aluminum. Got them slightly used from another member. All I know is that the front is lighter and feels different than the steel sprocket I had previously (not OEM). The rear sprocket is significantly lighter and has some sort of strange coating on it.

The chain runs true and is very quiet. I figured it was straight but wanted to flip front sprocket the other direction to see if I can tell a difference and compare. No luck, not going to pull the Swingarm pivot bolt since the chain runs quiet and looks straight. I'll just leave it.

However, the damn left side frame is now slightly off and I cannot get the lower bolt threaded. This might be due to being lifted by the Phobeman stand. So I'll finish up the chain installation today which will allow me to put it back on the ground and see if I can get the left frame to line up correctly again.

Pvster is offline  
post #12 of 13 Old 03-03-2014, 11:36 AM
Old, Bold rider
 
robtharalson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Aurora, Colorado
Posts: 2,382
Rep Power: 1
 
Garage

Awards Showcase
Donation Veteran Community Leadership 
Total Awards: 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvster View Post
However, the damn left side frame is now slightly off and I cannot get the lower bolt threaded. This might be due to being lifted by the Phobeman stand. So I'll finish up the chain installation today which will allow me to put it back on the ground and see if I can get the left frame to line up correctly again.
Apparently that is not unusual -- when installing a lower rear engine mount bolt with the bike on the centerstand it absolutely would not go in: the frame holes were off by ~ 1.5mm! On the side stand it slipped in no problem.

Rob

If it has already been done, it is safe to assume it is possible to do it.
On the other hand, if it has not been done never assume it is impossible to do it.
------- Rob --------
robtharalson is offline  
post #13 of 13 Old 03-03-2014, 12:51 PM Thread Starter
The Cripple
 
Pvster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 8,770
Rep Power: 1
 
Yeah that was my experience. As soon as it was on the kickstand, everything lined up perfectly lol.

Also found the order sheet for the sprockets and they indeed are steel, really lightened steel.

Pvster is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wrist Twisters forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome