Purolator - Pure one warning - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 28 Old 09-27-2009, 07:01 PM Thread Starter
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Purolator - Pure one warning

For those of us who use Pure One I was surprised to see this purolator warning:

Motorcycle Filters

I found this over on the VFRdiscussion forum and thought some over here would be interested.

Ok so the pressure relief valves are different for motorcycles than for autos. That should not be an issue until the filter gets blocked. Or am I wrong? Or is the issue that the auto filter medium is too restrictive?

I have used Pure One for at least the last 6 oil changes and no issue so far.

FYI... Mark

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post #2 of 28 Old 09-27-2009, 07:37 PM
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Hmmmmmmmmm...I run them and haven't had an issue. Thanks for the heads up though. I will see if I can find the ML part number for my bike


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post #3 of 28 Old 09-27-2009, 07:46 PM
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It's probably the same filter marketed differently and charged at nearly 200%

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post #4 of 28 Old 09-27-2009, 07:48 PM
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Actually, I found a 2 pack of the ML16817 for mine on Amazon for $10.54 ...Thanks for the heads up. I wll give this a try.


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post #5 of 28 Old 09-27-2009, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McCrimmon View Post
Actually, I found a 2 pack of the ML16817 for mine on Amazon for $10.54 ...Thanks for the heads up. I wll give this a try.
^^^ Check it out Chris...Find your PN...good buy and it's still a Purolator which is one of the best filters on the market if not maybe the best
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmurphy84 View Post
It's probably the same filter marketed differently and charged at nearly 200%


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post #6 of 28 Old 09-27-2009, 08:07 PM
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Check this out for mucho info:
Motorcycle Oil Filters & Air Filters

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post #7 of 28 Old 09-27-2009, 08:10 PM
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If it's good enough for that incredible FZ, I would imagine it's good enough for me.

I have to also imagine that Chris doesn't baby the oil pressure and that it sees enough revs to get it cleaning the bearing filings out of the oil....

Just a thought..

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post #8 of 28 Old 09-28-2009, 04:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McCrimmon View Post
^^^ Check it out Chris...Find your PN...good buy and it's still a Purolator which is one of the best filters on the market if not maybe the best
Thanks. Did you see the normal list price? $15 each. I'll try their new motorcycle filter at my next oil change in about 500 miles. Your FZ1 is beginning to be more similar to the 919s than you think. Same oil filter. Purolator part number ML16817 for FZ1 and 919.

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post #9 of 28 Old 09-28-2009, 05:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmurphy84 View Post
Thanks. Did you see the normal list price? $15 each. I'll try their new motorcycle filter at my next oil change in about 500 miles. Your FZ1 is beginning to be more similar to the 919s than you think. Same oil filter. Purolator part number ML16817 for FZ1 and 919.

Really? Thats funny. Ya, The price was pretty good I thought. A 2 pack for 10 bucks...I ordered 2 packs so that way I'd have plenty for a while since I just ordered another case of Amsoil to hold me over for a while.


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post #10 of 28 Old 09-28-2009, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Border View Post
If it's good enough for that incredible FZ, I would imagine it's good enough for me.

I have to also imagine that Chris doesn't baby the oil pressure and that it sees enough revs to get it cleaning the bearing filings out of the oil....

Just a thought..
Just curious, how does one "baby the oil pressure"?

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post #11 of 28 Old 09-28-2009, 10:05 AM
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It's Honda filters for me.

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post #12 of 28 Old 09-28-2009, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McCrimmon View Post
Really? Thats funny. Ya, The price was pretty good I thought. A 2 pack for 10 bucks...I ordered 2 packs so that way I'd have plenty for a while since I just ordered another case of Amsoil to hold me over for a while.
I ordered a 2-pack from there as well. I think it came to around $16 after shipping. That's a little more than buying two of the automotive Purolator filters from Advance Auto Parts (~$6.50 each). Plus, I won't have to paint the gold filters black.

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post #13 of 28 Old 09-28-2009, 11:26 AM
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I'm kind of a "only use the OEM oil filter" kind of a guy.

On the 944, I'll substitute a Mahl filter, but really do not like to use any others - I had to the last oil change, need to get it off there......

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post #14 of 28 Old 09-28-2009, 01:09 PM
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"If you're thinking you want to install a PureONE oil filter on your bike, please think again. PureONE oil filters are designed for vehicles, not bikes. Because of PureONE's high efficiency, the motorcycle oil pump may not be able to handle the pressure. The Purolator motorcycle filter line is designed to meet the specific needs of a bike; therefore we highly recommend the use of a Purolator ML filter over a PureONE oil filter." - Purolator website

In regards to Purolators warning on the bypass valve and different filtering media... I guess the question to ask would be, do motorcycles produce as much oil pressure as cars do? I'm not too savvy on this topic, but I would assume since bikes rev twice as high than most automobiles, it would produce just as much if not even more oil pressure. Yes?

Also, I remember coming across a website or forum (I want to say it was a post on the Shell Rotella forum, under motorcycles) that cut open new purolator pure1, purolator motorcycle filters, mobil (for autos), honda oem, K&N, Champion, and Wal-Mart filters.

While the honda motorcycle filter got good praise, the pure1 the best and mobil 1 being 2nd best. This was based on construction, quality of components, and filter media. One thing that did jump out at me, was the Purolator Motorcycle was not the same as Pure1's filtering media and did not stand up to par with honda's OEM or Pure1s construction. Also commented on the thread was marketing ploy to get even more $$ for specific 'motorcycle' filters and the possibility of Purolator using a different maker and simply putting their label on. But again those were just comments.

As for my 919, I use Shell Rotella 15w40 in warmer weather and Synthetic 5w40 in winter. No issues what-so-ever paired with Purolator Pure 1 filter. I'm also using the longer Pure1s for even better filtering. Intervals are 2500 miles. And no oil pressure/pump filter issues either. Switched over to the combination 5000+ miles ago. Also sending in both synthetic and dino Rotellas for oil analysis to compare with Mobil 1 MX4T #s.

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post #15 of 28 Old 09-28-2009, 01:23 PM
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I'm curious, what issues would you expect to notice with using an improper oil filter? Seems to me, the most likely effect of using the wrong oil filter would be increased engine wear over a long period of time - pretty hard to notice.

I'm basing this on the data from scientific analyses I've seen published on the web. If the media is too restrictive relative to the oil pump, the result might be insufficient oil pressure at the bearings reulting in increased engine wear. Another possible result might be premature oil pump failure.

It's good that nobody has experienced the latter but the former might be hard to detect.

I read about how well-constructed the pure-1 filters are but Purolator warns adamantly against using them on a MC.

The risk might be small but I think I'll stick with OEM filters i.e. no risk.

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post #16 of 28 Old 09-28-2009, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmurphy84 View Post
I ordered a 2-pack from there as well. I think it came to around $16 after shipping. That's a little more than buying two of the automotive Purolator filters from Advance Auto Parts (~$6.50 each). Plus, I won't have to paint the gold filters black.


You use to paint your filters???


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post #17 of 28 Old 09-28-2009, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McCrimmon View Post


You use to paint your filters???
i don't have to... i have a fairing to cover mine...



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post #18 of 28 Old 09-28-2009, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McCrimmon View Post


You use to paint your filters???
Well duh!!! I didn't want a navy blue or bright gold filter hanging off the front of the bike. I couple quick shots of flat black and I was ready to roll.

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post #19 of 28 Old 09-28-2009, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barton664 View Post
i don't have to... i have a fairing to cover mine...
Fairings are rolling oil catch pans




Just screw back on what came on your bike from the factory, & this thread won't concern any of you.

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post #20 of 28 Old 10-18-2009, 07:26 AM
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I just found this string and this is the first warning I have heard of re use of the PureOnes vs the ML series. I'm very surprised to read the Purolator warning that Andrewebay1 copied to the site. As a general rule, motorcycle engines with plain bearing cranks generally run with oil pressures that are higher than in cars, not lower. Yet the Purolator warning is predicated upon motorcycles having lower oil pressures. The 919 spec is 71 psi on factory spec oil viscosity 10W40 and 176 f coolant temperature, in other words the right oil correctly thinned out by temperature. I'll bet a GM or Ford V-6 is somewhere around 50 psi and not higher than 65. But there may be an explanation for Purolator's comments about motorcycles having lower oil pressure. Some do ! In particular, older pressed together crankshaft designs with ball or roller bearings and no plain bearings. Take away the plain bearings and substituting ball bearings drops the oil pressure requirements way down, I'm guessing down as low as 25 psi. Motorcycle oil pressure requirements are set by the bottom end bearing design, not the top end of the engine (unless it's a push rod engine with hydraulic lifters). It may be that the Purolator warning is over ball bearing crank engines, but they are just doing a broad brush stroke over the paranoia of their legal department. Personally, I've been using Honda filters in my 919, but still plan to shift to PureOne PL14612 Short or PL14610 long (has anybody found them in Canada ?).

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post #21 of 28 Old 10-18-2009, 07:45 AM
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could all use the Amsoil filters, eh?

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post #22 of 28 Old 10-18-2009, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
I just found this string and this is the first warning I have heard of re use of the PureOnes vs the ML series. I'm very surprised to read the Purolator warning that Andrewebay1 copied to the site. As a general rule, motorcycle engines with plain bearing cranks generally run with oil pressures that are higher than in cars, not lower. Yet the Purolator warning is predicated upon motorcycles having lower oil pressures. The 919 spec is 71 psi on factory spec oil viscosity 10W40 and 176 f coolant temperature, in other words the right oil correctly thinned out by temperature. I'll bet a GM or Ford V-6 is somewhere around 50 psi and not higher than 65. But there may be an explanation for Purolator's comments about motorcycles having lower oil pressure. Some do ! In particular, older pressed together crankshaft designs with ball or roller bearings and no plain bearings. Take away the plain bearings and substituting ball bearings drops the oil pressure requirements way down, I'm guessing down as low as 25 psi. Motorcycle oil pressure requirements are set by the bottom end bearing design, not the top end of the engine (unless it's a push rod engine with hydraulic lifters). It may be that the Purolator warning is over ball bearing crank engines, but they are just doing a broad brush stroke over the paranoia of their legal department. Personally, I've been using Honda filters in my 919, but still plan to shift to PureOne PL14612 Short or PL14610 long (has anybody found them in Canada ?).
The warning is talking a problem associated with pressure and efficiency. Efficiency has to do with with size and quantity of particles removed from the oil. In other words, a more efficient filter has smaller holes for the oil to pass through. So I think it's safe to say the "pressure" in the warning is back pressure. Think of a more efficient filter as being analogous to a more restrictive exhaust system. Takes out more particles/noise but increases back pressure.

So basically, I believe the warning is saying that the MC oil pump was not designed to pump oil through a filter that is as restrictive as the Pure One filter. Since probably no MC oil filter is as restrictive as the Pure One filter (probably according to manufacturer's specs) their warning seems valid to me.

So the question becomes: will using a Pure One filter make the oil pump work too hard and potentially fail? Or will the restriction at the filter reduce the pressure after the filter to a measurable degree?

The answer can probably be learned only by experimentation (guys using the Pure One filters). I'm going to wait a long time for the results of extended testing before jumping on the Pure One bandwagon.

Meanwhile, I'm using those crappy OEM Honda filters.

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post #23 of 28 Old 10-18-2009, 12:09 PM
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Genuine oil filters

I like getting a good deal like anyone else, but I use ony original equipment oil filters on all of my bikes and cars. Why worry about lunching your engine to save 5 bucks?

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post #24 of 28 Old 10-18-2009, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catonsvilleguy View Post
So the question becomes: will using a Pure One filter make the oil pump work too hard and potentially fail? Or will the restriction at the filter reduce the pressure after the filter to a measurable degree?
Let me throw this out there!

I see it as the latter. The oil pump puts out X amount of oil flow, at X amount of pressure. Any pressure above 71 psi, the pressure bypass releases and the excess goes straight back to the sump.

I would even guess that the oil pump, at higher rpms, puts out more that 71psi and therefore even during "normal" operation, a small percentage of oil bypasses the entire engine.

In the end, I would use the "tightest" filter available. Assuming the above is correct, and a certain amount of oil is always being pressured around the filtration circuit at least the oil that is filtered is really well filtered.

Just a thought...........

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post #25 of 28 Old 10-18-2009, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
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Let me throw this out there!

I see it as the latter. The oil pump puts out X amount of oil flow, at X amount of pressure. Any pressure above 71 psi, the pressure bypass releases and the excess goes straight back to the sump.

I would even guess that the oil pump, at higher rpms, puts out more that 71psi and therefore even during "normal" operation, a small percentage of oil bypasses the entire engine.

In the end, I would use the "tightest" filter available. Assuming the above is correct, and a certain amount of oil is always being pressured around the filtration circuit at least the oil that is filtered is really well filtered.

Just a thought...........
Interesting theory. Let us all know how the experiment on YOUR engine works out.

BTW, when the bypass valve in the oil filter opens, the filter element is bypassed. So the oil does not go straight back to the sump but straight past the filter element to points beyond like your main bearings.

Or maybe you were talking about the bypass valve on the oil pump.

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post #26 of 28 Old 10-18-2009, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
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Or maybe you were talking about the bypass valve on the oil pump.
You're correct, I was talking about the pressure bypass on the oil pump. I do need to cut open a filter because I've never seen a pressure bypass valve IN an oil filter. As an above post mentioned though, the pressure in a filter must be very, very cheap and unprecise.

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post #27 of 28 Old 10-18-2009, 06:55 PM
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My buddy has used them on his 636 for many oil changes...........no issues.........and he used them on his last bike........no issues............good enough for me on my 636.

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post #28 of 28 Old 10-20-2009, 07:57 PM
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I use Pure One PL14610, in the 919, and PL3001 in my Cherokees. The PL3001 is the oversize for Ford V8's, bought a Amazon. Damn Jeep takes about 6+ Quarts of Rotella 5-40! I wish they made them for my Z1 and GS1000.

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